BrewCity...

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Quite simply, teams are shooting a lot more 3s now (and, there are more guys that can shoot it effectively as time has evolved from the 80s). Don't need metrics or analytics to understand that.

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??? Of course you do. Teams are shooting more threes because they have figured out that it is a more efficient shot. You can't claim it is more efficient without metrics. It is literally impossible to do so.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

It isn't "his analytics." It is a body of work that has been developed over the course of time, just like in baseball. And if you are a coach that doesn't "go by" them, you won't be a coach for long.

You don't have to look too closely to see that the game has changed. Post game is emphasized less. Mid-range game is disappearing. That's not a coincidence. It's because metrics are showing teams how to be more efficient - as D'Antoni mentioned above.

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Man, you guys really like to hear yourselves talk. NOBODY here disputes that metrics are not an important part of college basketball and just about every other sport today. NOBODY. Why can't you comprehend that there are many attributes that cannot be measured by metrics that also play an important role in evaluating talent? Why can you not accept that regardless of having metrics coming out your a$$, you'll never be able to predict how a kid will respond to a certain situation at a certain time of a certain game?
Any coach that doesn't use the eye test and look for immeasurable intangibles will also not be coaching for long.

Curious, what was the highest level of competitive sport that you played?

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

??? Of course you do. Teams are shooting more threes because they have figured out that it is a more efficient shot. You can't claim it is more efficient without metrics. It is literally impossible to do so.

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Rick Pitino figured that out at Providence with Ernie D. in 1987.

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Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

Why can't you comprehend that there are many attributes that cannot be measured by metrics that also play an important role in evaluating talent? Why can you not accept that regardless of having metrics coming out your a$$, you'll never be able to predict how a kid will respond to a certain situation at a certain time of a certain game?

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Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. I have said similar things REPEATEDLY in this topic. Please see below.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Right. If you are going to argue that during "crunch time" that pressure can be amplified and some players perform better, well sure. As you said the game isn't played on paper.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Right. Players are human and as such don't perform perfectly. Two players who are roughly the same statistically could perform completely different under certain situations because of how they handle pressure.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

This is a topic about stats, and what stats are considered more important and why. Therefore, I don't understand why people come into the topic and say things like "metrics only go so far."

No kidding. No one claimed otherwise. No one claimed that the games were played on a computer and that the team with the better eFG% was going to win every game.

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So I can clearly "comprehend that there are many attributes that cannot be measured by metrics that also play an important role in evaluating talent." I can also "accept that regardless of having metrics coming out your a$$, you'll never be able to predict how a kid will respond to a certain situation at a certain time of a certain game."

Do you understand that now? If not, how can I make it simpler for you? Do I need to provide pictures? Bigger letters? Shorter words? Tell me.

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Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

Curious, what was the highest level of competitive sport that you played?

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Not sure why this is relevant, but I will amuse you. I played basketball through my sophomore year in high school. I played (and won!!) an intramural basketball championship at Marquette. Alas, I know longer have the shirt to wear with pride. I have played (and won!!!) multiple municipal basketball championships locally. But a knee injury a few years ago forced my retirement.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. I have said similar things REPEATEDLY in this topic. Please see below.





So I can clearly "comprehend that there are many attributes that cannot be measured by metrics that also play an important role in evaluating talent." I can also "accept that regardless of having metrics coming out your a$$, you'll never be able to predict how a kid will respond to a certain situation at a certain time of a certain game."

Do you understand that now? If not, how can I make it simpler for you? Do I need to provide pictures? Bigger letters? Shorter words? Tell me.




Not sure why this is relevant, but I will amuse you. I played basketball through my sophomore year in high school. I played (and won!!) an intramural basketball championship at Marquette. Alas, I know longer have the shirt to wear with pride. I have played (and won!!!) multiple municipal basketball championships locally. But a knee injury a few years ago forced my retirement.

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Well, as far as the reading comprehension thing goes: pot, meet kettle. I clearly stated you "guys". Unless you are big enough to be mistaken for "guys", I would think that is self explanatory. And I will stand by my comments of you liking to hear yourself speak. As you pointed out, you made several posts that were very similar(of which none were directly related to a post of mine), yet you felt the need to respond to one of my posts with a similar response even when I was discussing it with Brew. Classic Sultan.

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Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

Well, as far as the reading comprehension thing goes: pot, meet kettle. I clearly stated you "guys". Unless you are big enough to be mistaken for "guys", I would think that is self explanatory. And I will stand by my comments of you liking to hear yourself speak. As you pointed out, you made several posts that were very similar(of which none were directly related to a post of mine), yet you felt the need to respond to one of my posts with a similar response even when I was discussing it with Brew. Classic Sultan.

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LOL. It's a message board. That's what its for.

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Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

Well, as far as the reading comprehension thing goes: pot, meet kettle. I clearly stated you "guys". Unless you are big enough to be mistaken for "guys", I would think that is self explanatory. And I will stand by my comments of you liking to hear yourself speak. As you pointed out, you made several posts that were very similar(of which none were directly related to a post of mine), yet you felt the need to respond to one of my posts with a similar response even when I was discussing it with Brew. Classic Sultan.

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This thread has pretty much completely come off the rails. I'm happy to discuss advanced metrics with those that feel they have merit. Anyone saying that it's all meaningless once the game starts is nothing but a drain on any such discussion.

Regarding this specific aspect of the conversation, I don't believe in intangibles. They do not exist. Just because we haven't figured out how to measure something doesn't mean it can't be measured. Personality tests, the Wonderlic, all of those are developed to try to figure out how to measure what we refer to as intangibles. The actions of intangibles are in reality just the result of electrical impulses in the brain firing to neurons in the body. Are certain players better in the big moments than others? Yes. Absolutely. But it's not because of "guts", it's because of physiological characteristics we haven't been able to fully analyze yet.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Rick Pitino figured that out at Providence with Ernie D. in 1987.

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Nuke, Ernie was teaming up with Bad News Barnes in early '70's leading to their FF in '73 and later playing for my beloved Buffalo Braves. You may be thinking of Billy Donovan and that dude whose name escapes me who was a transfer from Indiana I think. They did fire up a ton of threes.

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Originally Posted by CaribouJim

Nuke, Ernie was teaming up with Bad News Barnes in early '70's leading to their FF in '73 and later playing for my beloved Buffalo Braves. You may be thinking of Billy Donovan and that dude whose name escapes me who was a transfer from Indiana I think. They did fire up a ton of threes.

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Delray Brooks.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Delray Brooks.

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Correct - thanks.