Round of 32-Saturday

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Originally Posted by MUBasketball

Dude, take some medication.

I'm an adult so let me respond like a grown up. If you were capable of understanding what I meant, I'm saying logic doesn't matter. The league is sending one team to the Sweet 16 and is getting crucified tonight. Close losses, seeds, location - to the vast majority this doesn't matter. That's just the reality of it.

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So you are using razor sharp logic to tell me logic is irrelevant. I expect better from those with an MU education. Sleep it off brah.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

So you are using razor sharp logic to tell me logic is irrelevant. I expect better from those with an MU education. Sleep it off brah.

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Ha, whatever. Keep thinking today wasn't horrible for the league's reputation (which was my only point - this league is obviously good). I can't help you.

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Originally Posted by MUBasketball

I don't disagree with you. Lots of dumbasses pollute Twitter. However, perception is reality.

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Recruits have ignored perception, and perception is not paying our bills. Perception may matter ten years from now when our contract is up, but the media world will likely be totally different ten years from now anyway. Also, if there is one overwhelming positive of the selection committee, it is they will gladly ignore perception and put the best teams in the field.

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Originally Posted by MUBasketball

Ha, whatever. Keep thinking today wasn't horrible for the league's reputation (which was my only point - this league is obviously good). I can't help you.

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I hope you enjoy living or dying based upon what Doug Gottlieb and Scott Van Pelt think of our league.

Question on last second miss by Jones in Butler game. Auguste double dribbled then. Can they check how much time was left when he did? Never saw a good replay with the clock on showing how much time was left. Even an extra 1.5 seconds would have been beneficial there to get a better look on a drive rather then a Dunham 3.

Okay...here's the thing for me. You can have a down year or two, but when you fail to produce repeatedly, it becomes more than bad luck, it's a trend. I mean, these results...

Villanova Since 2010

2010: Beat (15) Robert Morris in OT, Lose to (10) St. Mary's
2011: Lose to (8) George Mason
2013: Lose to (8) North Carolina
2014: Beat (15) Milwaukee, Lose to (7) Connecticut
2015: Beat (16) Lafayette, Lose to (10) NC State

Georgetown Since 2008

2008: Beat (15) UMBC, Lose to (10) Davidson
2010: Lose to (14) Ohio
2011: Lose to (11) VCU
2012: Beat (14) Belmont, Lose to (11) NC State
2013: Lose to (15) Florida Gulf Coast
2015: Beat (13) Eastern Washington, Lose to (5) Utah

So since their last Final Four appearances, Georgetown and Villanova are a combined 6-11 with the best win being GT over a 13-seed and 7/11 losses coming to double-digit seeds. Georgetown's run this year in terms of who they beat and who beat them is the best by either of the two schools that right now are really carrying the torch for the league.

It's easy to dismiss one year of results. Even two years you can dismiss. But since their Final Four appearances, we've seen 5 Tournaments of ineptitude from Villanova and 6 Tournaments of ineptitude from Georgetown. Is it just luck? Is it a crapshoot? Maybe, but they both seem to have an awful knack for shooting crap when the season is on the line. And we can make all the excuses we want (UConn won the title last year, VCU went to the Final Four, blah blah blah) but the reality is they continually get beat by worse seeds.

But, they are both two coaches that took their schools to a Final Four.

Yeah, but those are being quickly forgotten. The problem is they didn't do it in the new Big East era. They did it when the league was great, with teams like UConn, Syracuse, and Louisville going to the Final Four regularly. We've gained the little brother perception, and their prolonged run of sub-par results only feeds into that.

Yep, like Spencer Tillman says we live in a world of images and impressions.

[I][/

I don't understand the hand-wringing here. It's been a great year for BE basketball. 60% of the teams in the big dance, higher than any other conference in the country. Four move on with very solid wins. Though only one makes the sweet sixteen, the other three lose to terrific teams in close matches. After all, that's why they call it "March Madness.
So it's madness to start crying the sky is falling. If the BE was over-hyped, what about XII? Are we suddenly to conclude that league doesn't play basketball?
This is only the second year in the new BE. It's been a terrific year with a terrific non-conference record and all signs point to continuing that tradition.
I think we all knew that Nova depended too much on the three to be a shoo-in to go far in the tourney. I always thought that Jay Wright is too nice a guy. He may be a smart coach, but may not be able to convey the toughness to his players that's needed to win the big games.

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Originally Posted by MinnesotaJeb

[I][/

I don't understand the hand-wringing here. It's been a great year for BE basketball. 60% of the teams in the big dance, higher than any other conference in the country. Four move on with very solid wins. Though only one makes the sweet sixteen, the other three lose to terrific teams in close matches. After all, that's why they call it "March Madness.
So it's madness to start crying the sky is falling. If the BE was over-hyped, what about XII? Are we suddenly to conclude that league doesn't play basketball?
This is only the second year in the new BE. It's been a terrific year with a terrific non-conference record and all signs point to continuing that tradition.
I think we all knew that Nova depended too much on the three to be a shoo-in to go far in the tourney. I always thought that Jay Wright is too nice a guy. He may be a smart coach, but may not be able to convey the toughness to his players that's needed to win the big games.

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I think Nova is plenty tough. but an issue this year, other than the reliance on 3 point shooting, is the lack of depth re height and length. If Ochefu is not playing well or if he is in foul trouble, Nova hurts. He missed a lot of easy shots last night and was unable to corral some key rebounds. Also, Archie needs to play well and he had a tough night offensively last nite. The two combined had 3 of 15 last night. That's to overcome unless the 3 pointers are clicking.

Villanova three worse shooting games, resulted in L's. Funny how that works.

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

Villanova three worse shooting games, resulted in L's. Funny how that works.

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Ochefu and Archie were 3-15 with only 3 attempts coming from 3 point land. NC State also outrebounded Nova 45-32. Nova also missed a lot of bunnies. This game was about more than just 3 point shooting.

Villanova has become Gonzaga. Good regular season team that wilts early in the tournament. Too much finesse. The guy that killed them last night was Ochefu, continually missing bunnies. Had the been able to score inside they would have been fine even with the poor shooting.

We need a new flagship program.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Villanova has become Gonzaga. Good regular season team that wilts early in the tournament. Too much finesse. The guy that killed them last night was Ochefu, continually missing bunnies. Had the been able to score inside they would have been fine even with the poor shooting.

We need a new flagship program.

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What we need are teams with some quality height, size and length. Ochefu was outnumbered last night. Wojo seems to be moving in the right direction in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Ochefu and Archie were 3-15 with only 3 attempts coming from 3 point land. NC State also outrebounded Nova 45-32. Nova also missed a lot of bunnies. This game was about more than just 3 point shooting.

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That's what I said. Not three's, three loses this year. Missing bunnies is still shooting %.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

What we need are teams with some quality height, size and length. Ochefu was outnumbered last night. Wojo seems to be moving in the right direction in that regard.

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Georgetown will have that next year, Providence will have a really good and complete team if Dunn comes back, we are adding nice size to go along with Luke, and Nova has a great post player coming in Omari Spellman (may even come for 2015).

Edit: Also like Reynolds and Farr at Xavier, and they have a top 100 player in Makinde London redshirting this year.

Creighton has a nice 6'10 kid coming in Justin Patton.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Villanova has become Gonzaga. Good regular season team that wilts early in the tournament. Too much finesse. The guy that killed them last night was Ochefu, continually missing bunnies. Had the been able to score inside they would have been fine even with the poor shooting.

We need a new flagship program.

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I like the Zags and Mark Few, but when they have a Sweet 16, Elite 8, Sweet 16, and Final Four within a five-year period get back to me. I know you are better then this and need to get off the ledge.

I'm talking about since that Final Four. When Nova is still playing the second weekend again, get back to me.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I'm talking about since that Final Four. When Nova is still playing the second weekend again, get back to me.

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We will be in communication then right around March 20th, 2016.

How about the two-time defending ACC regular season champion going out in the second round (after going out in the Sweet 16 the year before)? Does not discredit what Virginia has done in the last two regular seasons.

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Originally Posted by warriorfan4life

How about the two-time defending ACC regular season champion going out in the second round (after going out in the Sweet 16 the year before)? Does not discredit what Virginia has done in the last two regular seasons.

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Agreed. One and done tournaments can be tough. So much depends on match-ups, etc.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Agreed. One and done tournaments can be tough. So much depends on match-ups, etc.

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And when the king of one and done tournaments (Izzo) coaches a style that ruins the game, it is tough to take that super seriously.

I agree that one and done can be brutal, but when you lose 5-6 times in a row to lower seeds, that's a trend. At the least it indicates there is something more there than bad matchups.

It feels like the Big East currently just isn't producing complete teams. Nova and Butler have good guards but not enough quality up front when people take away the three. Georgetown has strong front court guys, but rarely has enough quality guards. This year only Xavier and Providence were really balanced. Xavier is still dancing, Providence was undone by miserable shootingn

This is one thing I like about how Wojo is constructing his lineup. He has recruited a guy at every position. Need guys at both phases of the game to go far.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I agree that one and done can be brutal, but when you lose 5-6 times in a row to lower seeds, that's a trend. At the least it indicates there is something more there than bad matchups.

It feels like the Big East currently just isn't producing complete teams. Nova and Butler have good guards but not enough quality up front when people take away the three. Georgetown has strong front court guys, but rarely has enough quality guards. This year only Xavier and Providence were really balanced. Xavier is still dancing, Providence was undone by miserable shootingn

This is one thing I like about how Wojo is constructing his lineup. He has recruited a guy at every position. Need guys at both phases of the game to go far.

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Nova was a deserving number one seed. How much more complete could they have been?

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Nova was a deserving number one seed. How much more complete could they have been?

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Besides their shooters not hitting shots, Ochefu missed a number of good looks that he normally converts. Just played their worst game of the year at the absolute worst time. I believe that their subtle shift away from Pinkston on offense hurt the team and their balance on offense, but expect the presence of Omari Spellman to change that (and if Spellman does not enroll this year, I believe that Ochefu will be a bigger part of the offense).

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Originally Posted by warriorfan4life

And when the king of one and done tournaments (Izzo) coaches a style that ruins the game, it is tough to take that super seriously.

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1) How is Izzo the king of one and done tournaments?
2) How is his style ruining the game?

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Originally Posted by Mucrisco

1) How is Izzo the king of one and done tournaments?
2) How is his style ruining the game?

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Look at all the praise for him and his March exploits after their win today.

I'll expound much more on number two. His success and subsequent emulation from competitors has made college basketball frequently unwatchable. All of the clutching and grabbing on defense and fouling that gets uncalled is the hallmark of the Izzo defense. The refs do not have the stomach to call fouls on every possession, so only the most blatant fouls are called. When college basketball made a well intentioned if not half-hearted attempt to clean up the game by calling fouls on all the bumping and grabbing, Izzo was leading the protests against the refs actually following the rulebook.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Nova was a deserving number one seed. How much more complete could they have been?

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They were, without a doubt, a deserving 1-seed. But when the shots didn't fall they had no recourse.

The tournament IS about matchups. But teams like Izzo has are great at exploiting them because he always has good guards and versatile bigs. They play great defense, but have both the discipline to play slow and enough athleticism to play up tempo. The great tourney coaches have teams that can both exploit matchups but are somewhat matchup proof because they can adapt and play the way their opponent wants.

I usually hate him, but Barkley is talking about it now. The Big East is full of teams that always play their system and win with it. In the Tournament, you need to be able to win multiple ways.

And not saying I love Izzo's style, but his teams are never limited to guard scoring, or wing scoring, or low post scoring. They always seem to have options in all phases of the game.

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Originally Posted by warriorfan4life

Look at all the praise for him and his March exploits after their win today.

I'll expound much more on number two. His success and subsequent emulation from competitors has made college basketball frequently unwatchable. All of the clutching and grabbing on defense and fouling that gets uncalled is the hallmark of the Izzo defense. The refs do not have the stomach to call fouls on every possession, so only the most blatant fouls are called. When college basketball made a well intentioned if not half-hearted attempt to clean up the game by calling fouls on all the bumping and grabbing, Izzo was leading the protests against the refs actually following the rulebook.

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1) I'm still not sure what you mean by one and done tournaments. Do you mean that Izzo has a history of winning the first game and doesn't reach the Sweet 16?

2) Seems like a matter of preference. Many coaches I know admire the way that Izzo's teams play. His all-access practice is one of the most popular DVD's. Teaching kids how to work hard and make the most out of the talent you are given seems like a good message to me.

1) Pretty sure he means single elimination tournaments.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

1) Pretty sure he means single elimination tournaments.

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Aaaah gotcha. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Mucrisco

Aaaah gotcha. Thanks.

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Yeah, it took me a couple of looks to get the meaning.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

1) Pretty sure he means single elimination tournaments.

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Yeah, one and done is obviously colloquial for single elimination, which is rather stodgy sounding... :)

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Yeah, one and done is obviously colloquial for single elimination, which is rather stodgy sounding... :)

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My mind is fried. I can't remember anything right now. I think I've watched too much TV. It's that time of year...

I know the committee has a tough job but watching this Dayton/OU game I can't believe that Dayton is playing basically it's 3rd straight pseudo home game.....2 of them against higher seeds.

C'mon Dayton, pull this out!!! That would leave West Virginia as the lone Big 12 team remaining, and a loss to Maryland would mean zero Big 12 teams in the Sweet 16.

After Wichita routed Kansas I've already sent a tweet to Jon Rothstein in response to his "whole different kind of cattle" in the ACC tweet last night after Nova lost to NC State. I'm hoping to send another with a Dayton win!

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Originally Posted by MUBasketball

C'mon Dayton, pull this out!!! That would leave West Virginia as the lone Big 12 team remaining, and a loss to Maryland would mean zero Big 12 teams in the Sweet 16.

After Wichita routed Kansas I've already sent a tweet to Jon Rothstein in response to his "whole different kind of cattle" in the ACC tweet last night after Nova lost to NC State. I'm hoping to send another with a Dayton win!

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I don't get it? He said something positive about the ACC and you are responding after Big 12 losses? What does the Big 12 have to do with the ACC?

Maybe I misunderstood you?

Pretty hard to argue that hat the ACC has been the class conference so far. Pac 12 has been pretty impressive as well.