X Game

Please remind me of a game when our defensive transition, low block doubling, zone defense and rotation was this bad? The refs did not cost us the game. Our defense did.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

Totally disagree. We get killed on the boards and we are in this game until the end. We needed some even officiating to make this a win rather than a L. Please remind me of a game MU has played in the last 10 years when we have seen this type of disparity.

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Officiating was fine.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Didn't see improvement tonight? I did.

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And you're happy with that aren't you?? I can hear you..."You know their record sucks, they are playing far below their expectations, but you know what?? They are showing improvement!! The kids are getting better, and that's all that matters". Go get them all participation or "effort" ribbons and call it a day. :mad:

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Originally Posted by MUfan12

Syracuse. At home. Last February.

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We deserved the disparity bc we attacked

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Originally Posted by MU_Iceman

And you're happy with that aren't you?? I can hear you..."You know their record sucks, they are playing far below their expectations, but you know what?? They are showing improvement!! The kids are getting better, and that's all that matters". Go get them all participation or "effort" ribbons and call it a day. :mad:

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Just said I wasn't happy. Keep trying but I am a Marquette fan win or lose. You are a whiny bitch when they lose.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

Totally disagree. We get killed on the boards and we are in this game until the end. We needed some even officiating to make this a win rather than a L. Please remind me of a game MU has played in the last 10 years when we have seen this type of disparity.

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By this logic, than every time Marq has had the disparity in their favor it was because the officiating wasnt even. Have to disagree with you here.

Please remind me of a game when our defensive transition, low block doubling, zone defense and rotation was this bad? The refs did not cost us the game. Our defense did.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Just said I wasn't happy. Keep trying but I am a Marquette fan win or lose. You are a whiny bitch when they lose.

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LOLOL The hell you are! Keep telling yourself that you F'n tool. You hang your hat on improvement in a road loss. I don't see improvement if it's not in the "W" column. Different strokes, for different types of fans. If you sleep well at night and you're happy, good for you.

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Originally Posted by MU_Iceman

LOLOL The hell you are! Keep telling yourself that you F'n tool. You hang your hat on improvement in a road loss. I don't see improvement if it's not in the "W" column. Different strokes, for different types of fans. If you sleep well at night and you're happy, good for you.

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Again never said I was happy. Learn to read you ******* loser.

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Originally Posted by MU_Iceman

LOLOL The hell you are! Keep telling yourself that you F'n tool. You hang your hat on improvement in a road loss. I don't see improvement if it's not in the "W" column. Different strokes, for different types of fans. If you sleep well at night and you're happy, good for you.

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Ice - come on now. That's a pretty irrational comment. I;m not talking about tonights game or any game in particular, but you have zero ability to see improvement unless it's a win?

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

We deserved the disparity bc we attacked

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Agreed, and so did Xavier tonight.

Bitching about the refs tonight is misguided. They lost this game on the glass.

Starting guards outscored 41-19. Jake had 17! What value did Dwill bring again?

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Originally Posted by WindyCityGoldenEagle

Ice - come on now. That's a pretty irrational comment. I;m not talking about tonights game or any game in particular, but you have zero ability to see improvement unless it's a win?

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Sure, I can see improvement...but i have problems with people(see kneel & others), that are just satisfied with seeing improvement. What good is improvement if it doesn't result in a "W"?? Remember how many here were saying that the "improvement" they made in the Arizona state loss was going to be a springboard?? LOL A springboard to what?? a #1 seed in the NIT or CBE?? Great. Where do I get tickets??

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Originally Posted by MU_Iceman

Sure, I can see improvement...but i have problems with people(see kneel & others), that are just satisfied with seeing improvement. What good is improvement if it doesn't result in a "W"?? Remember how many here were saying that the "improvement" they made in the Arizona state loss was going to be a springboard?? LOL A springboard to what?? a #1 seed in the NIT or CBE?? Great. Where do I get tickets??

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Ok, but that's not what you said in your comment. You said, you only see improvement when there is a check in the W column. I'm glad to see you have retracted that statement as it was a bit ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by MU_Iceman

Sure, I can see improvement...but i have problems with people(see kneel & others), that are just satisfied with seeing improvement. What good is improvement if it doesn't result in a "W"?? Remember how many here were saying that the "improvement" they made in the Arizona state loss was going to be a springboard?? LOL A springboard to what?? a #1 seed in the NIT or CBE?? Great. Where do I get tickets??

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Season ain't over dick nose.

And nobody is satisfied with just improvement. You are the king of the straw man all hail. Did you even get a GED? Bc you are bar none the stupidest mf-er I've encountered in a while.

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Originally Posted by MUfan12

Agreed, and so did Xavier tonight.

Bitching about the refs tonight is misguided. They lost this game on the glass.

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I will split the difference here. The refs sucked because this crew got themselves way too involved as usual, but I do not believe that their calls favored either team (and the flagrant at the end was awful. Basketball is a contact sport, and Juan was just unlucky to be in the wrong place there).

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Season ain't over dick nose.

And nobody is satisfied with just improvement. You are the king of the straw man all hail. Did you even get a GED? Bc you are bar none the stupidest mf-er I've encountered in a while.

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Your mirror at home must be broken..because if it weren't and you ever looked in it, THEN you'd see the stupidest mfer. But thanks for trying to insult me. Season IS over. They ain't going to the tourney. PERIOD. And even if they by some miracle win the BE tourney and get in, it would be as what?? A 12 seed in the play in game?? Impressive for a team that started the year with many thinking they'd be a 2 or 3 seed. But i know, you'd be okay with that. Small minds, have small goals.

Gents, you two need to hug it out. :) Enough is a enough. We get where you both stand (have for some time, yet the same petty name calling always ensues). To play referee, in my observations of the boards I think both of you bring it on by your often extreme positions - Kneel always defending everything MU, never allowing anyone to critique the program and MuIce often spewing irrational hyperbole. You two are like a husband and wife of 60 years :)

Hey, I see progress, Kneel hasn't called me a dumbshit yet tonight :)

Lots of great name calling in this thread. Makes me proud to be an MU alum and fan.

Honestly one of the biggest reasons we lost this game last night, is your "star" player has 2 points and 5 fouls. That is terrible for someone as talented as Jamil. If this team has any chance of turning it around it starts and ends with him. And so far he hasn't shown he can take control and be that guy. I don't know how much longer we can wait for him to get it and maybe he won't, but that killed us yesterday having him only score two points and foul out.

He had 5 points but your point is well-taken. Talented player but his basketball IQ is low. Also, he rarely has "the Eye of the Tiger".

Anyone recall the 4 on 1 MU had in the second half and Jamil threw the ball outside to Jake for a 3 point shot? You have take THAT 95% opportunity to the hoop in a close game.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

Hey, I see progress, Kneel hasn't called me a dumbshit yet tonight :)

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Just mention that Buzz isn't perfect a few times, it'll happen.

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Originally Posted by MU_Iceman

LOLOL The hell you are! Keep telling yourself that you F'n tool. You hang your hat on improvement in a road loss. I don't see improvement if it's not in the "W" column. Different strokes, for different types of fans. If you sleep well at night and you're happy, good for you.

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Seriously, how did you survive 2009-10? I am amazed you didn't hang yourself that year. Improvement in December and January leads to wins in February and success in March. Or just give up on the team and check back in next year, if you can handle another year of 25+ mpg of Derrick Wilson.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

Starting guards outscored 41-19. Jake had 17! What value did Dwill bring again?

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5 assists. Zero turnovers. If you haven't figured out Derrick's marching orders yet, honestly, I don't know what to tell you. It's really not hard to figure out what his role is out there.

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Originally Posted by brewcity77

5 assists. Zero turnovers. If you haven't figured out Derrick's marching orders yet, honestly, I don't know what to tell you. It's really not hard to figure out what his role is out there.

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I would like Dawson to get back up minutes at point. 10-15 minutes. I like what I saw. Get Jamil back to where he belongs.

I'll apologize for the vulgarity, in this and other threads, but I made a relatively minor point about taking a positive out of this game, only to have that viewpoint attacked as not being good enough and settling for moral victories. Some days I'm better at ignoring the stupidity. Yesterday was not one of those days.

In response to the vulgarity, only Johnny Rev or MinnesotaJeb can grant forgiveness there.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

I'll apologize for the vulgarity, in this and other threads, but I made a relatively minor point about taking a positive out of this game, only to have that viewpoint attacked as not being good enough and settling for moral victories. Some days I'm better at ignoring the stupidity. Yesterday was not one of those days.

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I'm with you kneel. Support the guys through the highs and the lows. This year is clearly a low so far, at least compared to all the recent success. We're all frustrated but man, keep it all in perspective people. This team just isn't very good, let's accept it. It happens now and then.

Has anyone noticed that the defending national champions have an NIT resume right now?

I still think this team has got the talent, we just have yet to see them consistently play well. One game they can't shoot, but their defense is great, last night they shot great, but had poor defense. If they could just put it all together. I don't know if it is just me, but in every loss so far, besides maybe Creighton, we have come back to be only be down 1 or 2 or even tied, but we can never get that one basket to put us up. We usually always fall back to being down 4 or 5. It's frustrating because we are right there, but we don't have a player to close it out for us like we have had in the past.

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Originally Posted by brewcity77

Seriously, how did you survive 2009-10? I am amazed you didn't hang yourself that year. Improvement in December and January leads to wins in February and success in March. Or just give up on the team and check back in next year, if you can handle another year of 25+ mpg of Derrick Wilson.

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I was actually higher on that team than most going into that year. I absolutely thought they were an NCAA team. There were some bumpy times no doubt, but in the end they ended up exactly where I thought they would be...in the dance. The difference is though...NO ONE( a few) thought that team would make the NCAAs...so by all accounts, they EXCEEDED expectations...this one on the other hand...EVERYONE expected them to be an NCAA tourney team, and most were figuring on a 2-3 seed type year. They might not even make the NIT. if that isn't playing so far below expectations, I don't know what is?? That's the big difference between these two teams.

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Originally Posted by zklup54

I still think this team has got the talent, we just have yet to see them consistently play well. One game they can't shoot, but their defense is great, last night they shot great, but had poor defense. If they could just put it all together. I don't know if it is just me, but in every loss so far, besides maybe Creighton, we have come back to be only be down 1 or 2 or even tied, but we can never get that one basket to put us up. We usually always fall back to being down 4 or 5. It's frustrating because we are right there, but we don't have a player to close it out for us like we have had in the past.

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You are absolutely right on this...the problem has been, that I have noticed in all their close losses, is they go away from Davante for whatever reason down the stretch. Last night, they got it close, and suddenly for whatever reason, they stopped going inside to Davante. Instead it seemed everyone wanted to go for the "kill shot" so to speak, and jacked up stuipd stuff, Xavier then pulled away. You MUST get davante touches down the stretch when it's close like that. Not many can stop him. Last night was another example of that.

Ice - you are right on with the going away from Davante down the stretch and that blame has to go on the coach and/or the pg who as everyone always says is supposed to be an extension of the coach on the floor. There is no excuse for Ox to not be given touches in late game situations.

How "late" do you define "late game?"

Here are MU's possessions starting at the 7:58 mark:

7:58 Davante made layup
7:11 Mayo made shot
6:37 Davante made layup
5:47 Jamil made three
5:08 Jamil missed three
4:48 Deonte made shot
3:50 Deonte missed shot
3:00 Davante missed shot
2:28 Jake made three
1:36 Deonte made layup

By the time we got the ball back it was under 1:00, down five and threes started to go up. (The first was was a straight on 3 by Jake that wasn't a bad shot by any means)

So we had 10 offensive possessions. Scored on 7 of them. (Davante was 2/3, Deonte was 2/3, Jamil was 1/2, Jake was 1/1, Todd was 1/1) I think the problem is despite the fact that we scored on 7/10 possessions between the 8:00 and 1:00 marks, Xavier pretty much matched going 8/11. (They hit some threes...made some free throws.)

Defense was terrible.

Good stuff Sultan. I guess my feeling is that this team flows better offensively when they play from inside to out and run things through Ox. It just felt like he didn't get enough touches (not necessarily shots) down the stretch. All in all though there is no denying that our defense and rebounding lost us the game---that's undeniable.

I thought the missed jump shot from about 18-20 feet by DG(fairly early in the shot clock IIRC) at the 3 minute mark was a killer. It was fitting that of all people Todd Mayo seemed to take Gardner to task for not working for a better shot.

I thought Todd played very good team ball last night......

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Originally Posted by MU_Iceman

I was actually higher on that team than most going into that year. I absolutely thought they were an NCAA team. There were some bumpy times no doubt, but in the end they ended up exactly where I thought they would be...in the dance. The difference is though...NO ONE( a few) thought that team would make the NCAAs...so by all accounts, they EXCEEDED expectations...this one on the other hand...EVERYONE expected them to be an NCAA tourney team, and most were figuring on a 2-3 seed type year. They might not even make the NIT. if that isn't playing so far below expectations, I don't know what is?? That's the big difference between these two teams.

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You're the first person I know to claim they thought the 09-10 team was NCAA level before the year started. Lazar was the only proven commodity. Acker and Cooby both looked like disappointments, DJO and Buycks were complete unknowns, and neither Fulce nor Butler had shown much to suggest they'd be more than bit players.

Anyway...the truth is this team simply hasn't met potential. Jamil hasn't grown into a stud like we've seen happen in the past with Blue, Crowder, DJO, and Butler. Gardner has had moments, but for the most part the new rules have hurt more than helped him. Mayo hasn't taken the step that we saw Blue take as a junior. And both McKay and Blue left before the season started. The ultimate irony is that the two guys most people expected relatively little out of statistically, Derrick and Jake, are the two that are taking the brunt of the criticism despite the simple truth that the guys most expected to deliver on the statistical end aren't doing so and yet aren't getting the same criticism.

Is this team underachieving? Yes, because the expectation was that guys like Jamil, Gardner, and Mayo would take the same kind of steps forward we've seen from guys like Jimmy, Jae, and Blue in recent years. Instead, they have simply stagnated or in many regards even regressed. But what the hell...let's point the finger at Derrick and Jake.