Tulane to the Big East

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Originally Posted by pbiflyer

I am just so happy that our AD is concentrating on smoothing out the rough edges of our coach.
Let' see, accomplishments of recent ADs at Marquette:
Our last AD - Hired Buzz and lead us into the BEast,
The one before that - built the Al, got us into the BEast, hired Crean who lead us to a Final Four.
Current one - Um, pissed off the most popular and successful coach since Al.

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Jeez, does every thread have to be brought back to this???

You have no idea what LW and the Marquette administration is doing behind the scenes.

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Originally Posted by Litehouse

Assuming UofL, Cincy, and UConn leave, just make the divisions the football/basketball schools, so the eventual split will just go smoother. (I noticed you included Cincy but not St. Johns)

North
Marquette
DePaul
Georgetown
Providence
St. Johns
Seton Hall
Villanova

South
Memphis
Temple
USF
UCF
Houston
SMU
Tulane

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You need 8 football playing members. If UC goes, you need to add another. You may want to add an 8 hoops school too. X replacing UC? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Jeez, does every thread have to be brought back to this???

You have no idea what LW and the Marquette administration is doing behind the scenes.

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Agreed. I think Steve Cottingham got treated poorly as well. And he did more than just hire Buzz. He hired the volleyball coach who has the team in its best shape ever. He added lacrosse.

And when he hired Buzz, and even thereafter, I was reading on some of these boards what a dummy he was. The immediate reaction to Buzz's hiring from many people was "What? You have to be kidding! We didn't hire the next John Wooden? Dean Smith didn't come out of retirement to take the job for free? We couldn't get Bill Self to dump that lousy job at Kansas?"

On one board, one poster tried to put his MBA degree to use and demonstrate conclusively that it was a bad hire. He did that by quantifying the factors that should be considered in hiring a coach. How did he do that? He asked his beer drinking buddies what they thought, added up their answers, and turned them all into numbers. So the ideal coach should be based on x% ability to recruit, x% game coaching, x% fitting into the institution, etc. Then he quoted from Cottingham's remarks at the press conference about what a great fit Buzz was for the university, and Buzz's remarks about how happy he was to be here, and said, "See. The only factor they considered was institutional fit! They don't even know if this guy can coach!" Of course, Cottingham and others involved knew a lot more than that, and he did not try and lay out a detailed description of his hiring process in his introductory remarks. And of course, the critic's numbers were all nonsense anyway. All they were was one guy throwing numbers around to try and prove that his opinion was more than just that - one guy's uninformed opinion.

After a year or two, when Buzz turned out to be pretty good and everybody liked him, there was still plenty of criticism. People weren't complaining about the result, mind you, just the PROCESS! Cottingham screwed up the whole process, but he got lucky. Turns out this guy is not so bad. But that doesn't mean we were wrong!

So it is here. Anybody who thinks our AD has been sitting around with his finger in his nose just idly watching the situation develop is a fool. There is plenty going on behind the scenes. There have been some hints of that from time to time, like leaks that the non-football schools have had discussions among themselves, but most of that is being kept private, as it is intended to be. There are certainly contingency plans in the works.

The unfortunate part of this is that if things do not work out as well as we would like, there might be nothing Larry Williams or the administration could do about it. Bill Cords did a great job getting us into the Big East, and it has been a great place to be. It was also lucky. We were in the right place at the right time. Anybody who was paying attention knew the situation was unstable, and there have been constant discussions since Marquette joined the Big East that we had better enjoy it while it lasts. I hope when all is said and done, we land on our feet in a good position, but it is highly likely that whatever anybody does, we are going to wind up in a less attractive conference, getting less money for TV rights, than we have enjoyed for the last seven years or so. I do not think there is anything Larry or any other AD could do to prevent that. That doesn't mean he is not doing the best he can with a tough situation. Let's see how it works out before trashing the guy.

I don't usually venture outside of the Panther forums, but seriously, Tulane? You guys better hope your AD has the stones to bail. Otherwise, you may as well pull the old C-USA floor out of the BC storage closet and have a Mike Deane bobblehead night... Your brand is at stake.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

There is plenty going on behind the scenes. There have been some hints of that from time to time, like leaks that the non-football schools have had discussions among themselves, but most of that is being kept private, as it is intended to be. There are certainly contingency plans in the works.

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This is the problem with both PR and the AD. I suspect there are goings on by the administration, unfortunately the is zero evidence to support your and my conclusion. There has been no reassuring press releases, soft-ball interviews to calm down the donors, ticketholders and fan base. Instead, we are left to say, "Larry and Fr. P must be smart guys, or we wouldn't have hired them. And they must be doing things behind the scenes, so let's all trust that and rest easy."

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Originally Posted by Spirit of Bruce

I don't usually venture outside of the Panther forums, but seriously, Tulane? You guys better hope your AD has the stones to bail. Otherwise, you may as well pull the old C-USA floor out of the BC storage closet and have a Mike Deane bobblehead night... Your brand is at stake.

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Not to put to fine a point on it, but **** rolls downhill, and you are downhill from us. Didn't your team just move back into a high school gym? Didn't your conference just lose its flagship team? Aren't your fans talking about adding the likes of Northern Kentucky?

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Originally Posted by Spirit of Bruce

I don't usually venture outside of the Panther forums, but seriously, Tulane? You guys better hope your AD has the stones to bail. Otherwise, you may as well pull the old C-USA floor out of the BC storage closet and have a Mike Deane bobblehead night... Your brand is at stake.

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I would make some smart-ass remark about you, but I can't because I think you're right.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

Not to put to fine a point on it, but **** rolls downhill, and you are downhill from us. Didn't your team just move back into a high school gym? Didn't your conference just lose its flagship team? Aren't your fans talking about adding the likes of Northern Kentucky?

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If you want to talk trash in your typical elitist Marquette fashion, come over to our board and do it. He was just making an observation that your team's "Big Time" persona is getting watered down by your conference decision-makers, he wasn't taking shots or looking for trouble.

By the way, didn't you just lose to Butler? Yeah, you did didn't you...

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Originally Posted by MayorCK

If you want to talk trash in your typical elitist Marquette fashion, come over to our board and do it. He was just making an observation that your team's "Big Time" persona is getting watered down by your conference decision-makers, he wasn't taking shots or looking for trouble.

By the way, didn't you just lose to Butler? Yeah, you did didn't you...

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It seems strange that you suggest Marquette fans come to your board to remind you of the unenviable situation you find yourselves in. That is not the sort of thing most fans enjoy hearing from someone else's fans on their own board, so I will not do it.

As for Butler, at least we got to play them this year, which is a tougher game than anybody on your schedule.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

Not to put to fine a point on it, but **** rolls downhill, and you are downhill from us. Didn't your team just move back into a high school gym? Didn't your conference just lose its flagship team? Aren't your fans talking about adding the likes of Northern Kentucky?

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I take exception to your mean-spiritedness, because it is unnecessary. First, let me say I agree with the high school gym remark. Second, if you are using the rolling downhill wisdom, I would say Tulane is below us. I've heard nothing of this Northern Kentucky business you speak of.

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Originally Posted by MayorCK

If you want to talk trash in your typical elitist Marquette fashion, come over to our board and do it. He was just making an observation that your team's "Big Time" persona is getting watered down by your conference decision-makers, he wasn't taking shots or looking for trouble.

By the way, didn't you just lose to Butler? Yeah, you did didn't you...

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This is funny. UWM is what...0 for a lot....all time against MU and you are going to trash talk a Butler loss?

Please...go challenge Cardinal Stritch for second place in the city of Milwaukee...perhaps Alverno.

Seriously guys? Why are we ripping UWM? He was right. None of us should be happy Tulane was added. Maybe that was the only option, like MU88 said, but it's sad if that is the case. But let's get defensive and play the "my dad is better than your dad" game. (Meanwhile, this Maryland/Northwestern game sure is exciting. I'm sure glad this mess was started again so these two teams can battle it out in the future. Kill me now?)

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Originally Posted by Spirit of Bruce

I take exception to your mean-spiritedness, because it is unnecessary. First, let me say I agree with the high school gym remark. Second, if you are using the rolling downhill wisdom, I would say Tulane is below us. I've heard nothing of this Northern Kentucky business you speak of.

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This coming from a fan of a team who just got rolled in Puerto Vallerta by Jacksonville and.....wait for it....Rider. Well done.

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Originally Posted by Hamostradamus

This is the problem with both PR and the AD. I suspect there are goings on by the administration, unfortunately the is zero evidence to support your and my conclusion. There has been no reassuring press releases, soft-ball interviews to calm down the donors, ticketholders and fan base. Instead, we are left to say, "Larry and Fr. P must be smart guys, or we wouldn't have hired them. And they must be doing things behind the scenes, so let's all trust that and rest easy."

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This is the kind of crap that has caused me to flee the other boards.

So Marquette should issue a press release after every phone call? Every meeting? They should continually update everyone everyday what the situation is? Really?

Because there has been some rumors posted on message boards about LW and Fr Pilarz, it is assumed that both of these guys are incompetant and therefore we will wind up in the Horizon League when all is said and done. So I will turn it around...

What are your sources that says that LW is doing nothing but sitting around and picking his nose? You are convinced that he is a boob and in way over his head, prove it. You don't feel that they are smart guys and doing their jobs, so present your case here....

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Originally Posted by Hamostradamus

This is the problem with both PR and the AD. I suspect there are goings on by the administration, unfortunately the is zero evidence to support your and my conclusion. There has been no reassuring press releases, soft-ball interviews to calm down the donors, ticketholders and fan base. Instead, we are left to say, "Larry and Fr. P must be smart guys, or we wouldn't have hired them. And they must be doing things behind the scenes, so let's all trust that and rest easy."

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Here's one from October...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golde...174681531.html

"I feel real good about the new direction of the Big East," (Larry Williams) said. "We'll always be very mindful of where things go and if things do change, we'll always examine potential options. But right now we feel real good about where the Big East is going."


Honestly, I think people around here look for reasons to be pissed at the administration....

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Originally Posted by MU88

You need 8 football playing members. If UC goes, you need to add another. You may want to add an 8 hoops school too. X replacing UC? Just a thought.

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They get ECU for football.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Here's one from October...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golde...174681531.html

"I feel real good about the new direction of the Big East," (Larry Williams) said. "We'll always be very mindful of where things go and if things do change, we'll always examine potential options. But right now we feel real good about where the Big East is going."
Honestly, I think people around here look for reasons to be pissed at the administration....

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I am not looking to be pissed, I am looking for reassurance. I am sure Broeker and Larry are on this, but they should make sure the people who fill the stands know it. Alvarez has done a bunch of interviews in the last few months on conference expansion. Then more when Rutgers and Maryland were added. Right now, we are getting most of information from twitter posts from that West Virginia guy. What's MU's position on the addition of Tulane? I know from ESPN that 1. Cincy is wooing the ACC, Louisville and UConn are wooing everyone else, UNC's AD issued a statement on ACC membership to the students, and right now I am getting more info. about MU's plans from IWB and that dude who posted he saw Larry going to Fr. P's office. Seriously, that is all we know. And you have no problem with the information vacuum?

FWIW, the guy from West Virginia was wrong - he said St. John's & G'Town started the vote to disband. He said MU & DePaul were the only hoops schools against it. Wrong and wrong. Completely untrue, no such vote ever happened.

Here is the deal - I have no idea what the commissioners plans are, but he obviously has one - maybe its true, maybe Tulane was THE ONLY option, and if that is the case it is really sad. Here is what I do know......

Out of the basketball only schools there is nobody looking to disband. The basketball only schools are committed to sticking together, committed to sticking it out. Have they discussed a potential basketball only league? Yes, they have, but they know at this point the Big East is still their best option. Are the basketball only schools happy about the Tulane addition? No, and neither are the football schools, but they aren't exactly playing with an excess of time and options here.

What was done needed to be done, as much as that sickens us all, but attacking Tulane, UWM and each other isn't going to do anyone any good.

Are Larry and Broeker sitting on their hands? No. They are on the phone constantly looking for partnerships, looking for options, but at this point in time, neither MU or any of the basketball only schools are in a position to be calling any shots. That is up to the commish, and I hope to God Tulane isn't his final answer. I am glad that Mike Broeker is still in the house as he has spent years building up relationships in the Big East as well as with schools in the ACC, building relationships that will not only foster partnerships, but those that can deliver information. With Mike Broeker on MU's side, you can bet that any potential option will be known to MU.

People are concerned about Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz as it relates to Buzz Williams, and I do understand that, but the current conference mess is a greater concern not only for the future of the program, but the retention of Buzz Williams. Buzz hasn't turned down a fistful of major programs to coach in C-USA 3.0.

This is why this board rocks. Information vacuum = filled.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Are the basketball only schools happy about the Tulane addition? No, and neither are the football schools, but they aren't exactly playing with an excess of time and options here.

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My confusion is...isn't there a vote for any new membership? If so, how the hell did Tulane get enough votes to get admitted to the league?

None of this makes any rational sense to me. However, the commish did say weeks ago the conference was close to adding another football school. We all assumed BYU...but perhaps these were the two who were being considered and studied so they went two deep. Perhaps the schools made financial commitments. This happened too fast to force this. Perhaps they proactively added the second choice in defense. At this point this is a half CUSA and half BE conference which is still better than the A10. That said, I am going to sit back and enjoy the last year of the true BE.

I hope the BE/Aresco plan somehow involves a realistic shot at BYU.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

I hope the BE/Aresco plan somehow involves a realistic shot at BYU.

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Not so much (at least not yet)
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...er-fish----byu

Well, Tulane beat SMU in football, so there's that. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing for Big East football...

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Originally Posted by Mucrisco

Well, Tulane beat SMU in football, so there's that. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing for Big East football...

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Big East football is so atrocious (obvious, I know). They gobbled up Houston after they had an unbelievable season last year...but then lose their coach and now they suck again. SMU is no good either, and June Jones can't wait to get out.

What a mess.

Take the money out of this. Personally, I think we are eventually going to lose Cincy, UConn, and Louisville. This league looks very appealing:
(Post from Nova board)
"X Fan, agree on all accounts. I posted this on the Providence forum. If UCONN and UL leave, the schools should have an understanding, dissolve the league and create a core group of 12 basketball only schools, split east and west.

But to further build the league, why does it have to be basketball only? The league should not sponsor football, but the A10 model worked for years with the quality that Temple brought that league. I don't think it's necessarily one or the other as everyone is
presenting. Leave the option to 4 football playing schools who also happen to have solid basketball to protect their hoops in such a league: Temple, UMASS, Memphis, Cincy (assuming they are left behind)

I think Memphis would do the same
if given the right option. And Cincy may be left with no choice,
although it would be difficult to convince them to do it. I know if I
was Memphis fan for example, I'd rather secure my hoops in the below
league and throw football in wherever it fits for now because let's be
honest, MAC, Sunbelt, CUSA ain't a whole lot different right now. The
Big East has to stop sponsoring football basically and try to create
this league. But football is like crack for them. They just can't stop.
This below league would be a top 4 hoops league.

East
PC
SHU
SJU
G'town
Nova
Richmond
UMASS *football remains in MAC
Temple *football back to the MAC

West
Marquette
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
St. Louis
Depaul
Memphis *football in MAC or Sunbelt?
Cincy *football in the MAC"

Now, add Creighton, St Mary's, The Zags, VCU, and other strong Bball schools to that and as a pure college basketball fan, that is something to be excited about. Instead, money and college football continue to screw this whole thing up. We can't even hope for a good hoops only conference because we want/need more cash. I'm adopting women's volleyball as my fall viewing sport along with soccer.

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Originally Posted by Spirit of Bruce

I take exception to your mean-spiritedness, because it is unnecessary. First, let me say I agree with the high school gym remark. Second, if you are using the rolling downhill wisdom, I would say Tulane is below us. I've heard nothing of this Northern Kentucky business you speak of.

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Well, I think it is unwise to drop by this board to tell us how badly things are going. That is not likely to engender a kind response. Yep, it looks like the Big East is in bad shape, but as a result, the conferences further down the food chain, like yours, are in worse shape, so it does little good to take pleasure in the discomfort of Marquette fans. As for the Northern Kentucky remark, that is the speculation on your board (the other one) regarding what to do to replace Butler.

Sorry if that sounds mean-spirited. I personally have nothing against UWM, and no strong feelings about the school or the team one way or the other. I have a couple of nephews who went there, and it seemed to suit them well. As an aside, I would note that Tulane is an excellent academic school and has had more athletic success over the years than UWM. (Then again, they also had a major point-shaving scandal, so I guess you can take your pick.) But in any case, it strikes me as unwise of you to come here and point out that we are in a difficult position, as yours is worse

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Here's one from October...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golde...174681531.html

"I feel real good about the new direction of the Big East," (Larry Williams) said. "We'll always be very mindful of where things go and if things do change, we'll always examine potential options. But right now we feel real good about where the Big East is going."

Honestly, I think people around here look for reasons to be pissed at the administration....

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Wow, if he is feeling good about the direction of the Big East, he is the only one.

Well, I am not trying to put lipstick on a pig, but most of the new additions have had some success in football in the past, and conceivably could again. Tulane, Houston, and SMU have all gone to major bowls and been nationally ranked. None of them could sustain that success, however, and the time when they could do that might have come and gone.

If this winds up in a league that does not sponsor football, I do not see having football schools hanging on as being a particularly good option. I will respectfully disagree with Crisco. It did not work in the A-10. Any A-10 school with a football team left at the first available opportunity. (Penn State, W. Va., Va. Tech, Rutgers, Temple,) If Cinci joined such a conference with us, they would be looking to do likewise, and no one could blame them.

I do think we wind up in a non-football league when the music stops, but it may keep playing for a while yet.

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Originally Posted by pbiflyer

Wow, if he is feeling good about the direction of the Big East, he is the only one.

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Well, in Larry's defense, at the time of the quote I was confident also. It was the consensus belief that realignment was done for a while. So despite the Big East defections, they still patched it up as well as could have hoped. So at that time it was:

Losing: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, West Virginia
Adding: Memphis, Temple, Central Florida, SMU, Houston

Not a fair trade, of course. But, still very solid going forward. Not sure he, or anyone, saw this whole domino effect starting up again. Now, it looks bad.

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Originally Posted by pbiflyer

Wow, if he is feeling good about the direction of the Big East, he is the only one.

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Hostrodamus wants reassuring words from LW...I provide him with an example...and now he gets jumped on for providing them.

Seriously, you people need to lighten up with the anti-LW stuff until something specific and concrete occurs. Jumping on him for this kind of stuff makes you look petty.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

FWIW, the guy from West Virginia was wrong - he said St. John's & G'Town started the vote to disband. He said MU & DePaul were the only hoops schools against it. Wrong and wrong. Completely untrue, no such vote ever happened.

Here is the deal - I have no idea what the commissioners plans are, but he obviously has one - maybe its true, maybe Tulane was THE ONLY option, and if that is the case it is really sad. Here is what I do know......

Out of the basketball only schools there is nobody looking to disband. The basketball only schools are committed to sticking together, committed to sticking it out. Have they discussed a potential basketball only league? Yes, they have, but they know at this point the Big East is still their best option. Are the basketball only schools happy about the Tulane addition? No, and neither are the football schools, but they aren't exactly playing with an excess of time and options here.

What was done needed to be done, as much as that sickens us all, but attacking Tulane, UWM and each other isn't going to do anyone any good.

Are Larry and Broeker sitting on their hands? No. They are on the phone constantly looking for partnerships, looking for options, but at this point in time, neither MU or any of the basketball only schools are in a position to be calling any shots. That is up to the commish, and I hope to God Tulane isn't his final answer. I am glad that Mike Broeker is still in the house as he has spent years building up relationships in the Big East as well as with schools in the ACC, building relationships that will not only foster partnerships, but those that can deliver information. With Mike Broeker on MU's side, you can bet that any potential option will be known to MU.

People are concerned about Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz as it relates to Buzz Williams, and I do understand that, but the current conference mess is a greater concern not only for the future of the program, but the retention of Buzz Williams. Buzz hasn't turned down a fistful of major programs to coach in C-USA 3.0.

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This is just awesome information. Thanks much IWB!!

I said that league looks appealing if you take money out of the equation. I agree with you that it is not stable. I am just saying from a basketball standpoint, it looks like a great league, but we can't have it because of money and football. Really, what I'm saying is nothing new to people. I'm just expressing frustration.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

Well, I think it is unwise to drop by this board to tell us how badly things are going. That is not likely to engender a kind response. Yep, it looks like the Big East is in bad shape, but as a result, the conferences further down the food chain, like yours, are in worse shape, so it does little good to take pleasure in the discomfort of Marquette fans. As for the Northern Kentucky remark, that is the speculation on your board (the other one) regarding what to do to replace Butler.

Sorry if that sounds mean-spirited. I personally have nothing against UWM, and no strong feelings about the school or the team one way or the other. I have a couple of nephews who went there, and it seemed to suit them well. As an aside, I would note that Tulane is an excellent academic school and has had more athletic success over the years than UWM. (Then again, they also had a major point-shaving scandal, so I guess you can take your pick.) But in any case, it strikes me as unwise of you to come here and point out that we are in a difficult position, as yours is worse

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