Buzz responsible for what we have become?

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Originally Posted by Markedman

Buzz lost another 1......http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...asketball-team

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He was already suspended for "a lack of discipline and self-control at practice.” Wonder if MU would have any interest for a year since he is graduating in May.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

He was already suspended for "a lack of discipline and self-control at practice.” Wonder if MU would have any interest for a year since he is graduating in May.

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As much as Buzz probably deserved to be punched at times, I do not think you want to bring that into our program. It would make for an entertaining story though.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Final comment on Buzz - was going back and forth with him the other day, and like Crean, Karma can be a bitch. They suited up 7 guys against UNC. 4 freshman, 2 walkons, a soph PG and a 5'8 2G. Sounds a lot like Crean's first year at Indiana, proof that the grass ain't always greener!

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4 +2 + 1 + 1 = 8 ;)

But if you look at the box score, he played 9 players. God, his poor me schtick is annoying.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400587928

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Originally Posted by pbiflyer

4 +2 + 1 + 1 = 8 ;)

But if you look at the box score, he played 9 players. God, his poor me schtick is annoying.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400587928

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Absolutely

. High school kids are still using them to improve grades, need to do what you can, your classroom grades aren't everything so your GPA isn't always set in Stone.

Anything to this IWB? :cool:

Buzz is largely responsible for this mess. I am very impressed how Wojo has gotten this group to stick together and play hard every game.

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Originally Posted by pbiflyer

4 +2 + 1 + 1 = 8 ;)

But if you look at the box score, he played 9 players. God, his poor me schtick is annoying.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400587928

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I was the one that said seven, but correct, don't know where ther 9th guy came from. And it wasn't a poor me deal, he was answering a question.

Also--who is 5'8 on their roster? Shortest guy i see is listed at 6'1

http://www.hokiesports.com/mbasketball/players/

Buzz and his Wild Card ways with his mouth always drove me crazy. Particularly with the Jameel McKay thing, why even say that when the kid is sitting right there? What's the upside to that comment? It's one thing to wear your heart on your sleeve and speak your mind, it's another to say stupid things. The latter seemed to happen with more and more regularity as the years went on.

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Originally Posted by AbovetheRim

Buzz and his Wild Card ways with his mouth always drove me crazy. Particularly with the Jameel McKay thing, why even say that when the kid is sitting right there? What's the upside to that comment? It's one thing to wear your heart on your sleeve and speak your mind, it's another to say stupid things. The latter seemed to happen with more and more regularity as the years went on.

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Have to admit that Buzz was always rather blunt after that first season with the Amigos. In the 2nd season, all the "woe is us" and "we are not any good" stuff started. Along with targeting individual players. Guess it caught up to him with McKay.

"Us against the world" is usually just a motivational technique that works for a short time. And in Buzz's case, "the world" started to include things like his boss and the President of the institution. If Buzz is going to be long-term successful anywhere, he has to understand that you can only be the scrappy underdog for so long. You don't need to exaggerate the slights against you and the obstacles you are facing. In the end, people don't really care - they just want to win.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

"Us against the world" is usually just a motivational technique that works for a short time. And in Buzz's case, "the world" started to include things like his boss and the President of the institution. If Buzz is going to be long-term successful anywhere, he has to understand that you can only be the scrappy underdog for so long. You don't need to exaggerate the slights against you and the obstacles you are facing. In the end, people don't really care - they just want to win.

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I think you can get away with it more at the college level because you only have kids for 4 years. It's when you try using that against the higher ups and people with power that tend to stick around longer than that that the situation becomes untenable.

That's why I think someone like Buzz and some NBA coaches like Scott Skiles or Tom Thibodeau are better suited for the college game. Some do tend to grate faster than others, though. Last year it sure looked like Buzz lost the team, and that his underdog mindset didn't resonate with everyone.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I think you can get away with it more at the college level because you only have kids for 4 years. It's when you try using that against the higher ups and people with power that tend to stick around longer than that that the situation becomes untenable.

That's why I think someone like Buzz and some NBA coaches like Scott Skiles or Tom Thibodeau are better suited for the college game. Some do tend to grate faster than others, though. Last year it sure looked like Buzz lost the team, and that his underdog mindset didn't resonate with everyone.

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Correct. And guys like Gardner and Wilson had enough of the same old war cry for all of those years and seemed to tune it out. Last years team was just a mess.

That is one way of looking at it. Another is that if Buzz were still here, Todd Mayo would be as well, and he would have brought in three more players, two of which were pretty good and one of which Wojo worked hard to keep. There would have been more talent on the team than there is presently. In addition, in Buzz's second year, I turned to the original poster at Midnight Madness and said, "It's going to be a long year." He agreed. I was shocked when the starting guards were Acker and Cubillian, two guys who between them had not played an entire half all season until Dominic broke his foot. Buzz lead that team to the tournament that year, mostly with smoke and mirrors. As for developing talent, he lost some guys, true. He also really developed Matthews, Butler, Crowder, Hayward, to name a few. I look at Buzz's tenure here and it was remarkable. Maybe he was due to burn out. But I would take that seven year period from any coach. As for last season, things did not go well. The team looked good at the beginning of the season, even without Vander. Despite the score, the Ohio State game was winnable if the team could have thrown the ball in the ocean that day. But it couldn't. And the team did not jell and pull off some big wins late in the season. Teams have disappointing seasons. UConn under Calhoun, Louisville under Pitino and Crum, Georgetown under both Thompsons, many others. Last year did not define either Buzz's career or his tenure at Marquette.

Very, very well said UJ.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

That is one way of looking at it. Another is that if Buzz were still here, Todd Mayo would be as well, and he would have brought in three more players, two of which were pretty good and one of which Wojo worked hard to keep. There would have been more talent on the team than there is presently. In addition, in Buzz's second year, I turned to the original poster at Midnight Madness and said, "It's going to be a long year." He agreed. I was shocked when the starting guards were Acker and Cubillian, two guys who between them had not played an entire half all season until Dominic broke his foot. Buzz lead that team to the tournament that year, mostly with smoke and mirrors. As for developing talent, he lost some guys, true. He also really developed Matthews, Butler, Crowder, Hayward, to name a few. I look at Buzz's tenure here and it was remarkable. Maybe he was due to burn out. But I would take that seven year period from any coach. As for last season, things did not go well. The team looked good at the beginning of the season, even without Vander. Despite the score, the Ohio State game was winnable if the team could have thrown the ball in the ocean that day. But it couldn't. And the team did not jell and pull off some big wins late in the season. Teams have disappointing seasons. UConn under Calhoun, Louisville under Pitino and Crum, Georgetown under both Thompsons, many others. Last year did not define either Buzz's career or his tenure at Marquette.

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Actually, Matthews development was due more to work with Dale Layer who left the next year. Yes, under Buzz's regime, but it really was Layer's efforts.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

That is one way of looking at it. Another is that if Buzz were still here, Todd Mayo would be as well,

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TAMU over at Scoop, who has connections of some sort in the Athletic Department, said that whatever Todd did that even Buzz wasn't going to be able to keep him around. I have wondered if it has anything to do with this.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/12/19/o-j-ma...uit-drugs-nba/

I don't think that is what TAMU is referring to.

I'm not going to get involved in any of the innuendo going on here but I know this much. While I admire the job Buzz did here and simultaneously dislike his rough around the edges persona, he did tell IWB that the recruiting standard changes set the program back 2 years. Here we are and that's 2 years assuming he was the coach and everything else stayed the same. I don't need to remind anyone here that much has changed in the last year. That's the story for me regardless of how much folks here want to blame him.

Meanwhile Virginia tech is 0-5 and 8-10. Buzz doesn't have the great history of MU to recruit players to Virginia Tech. No Al McGuire, Dwyane Wade, Steve Novak, Travis Diener, Wes Matthews, Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, DJO, National Championship, Final Fours or Elite 8's. VT has no storied history! That is why I always say that MU helped make Buzz. Just look at his first year (Seniors - DJ, Wes, Jerel and Junior - Lazar) Sure, Buzz busted his ass, but his same effort at VT may not bear the same fruit because Virginia Tech has no history of any success in basketball.

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Originally Posted by AbovetheRim

I'm not going to get involved in any of the innuendo going on here but I know this much. While I admire the job Buzz did here and simultaneously dislike his rough around the edges persona, he did tell IWB that the recruiting standard changes set the program back 2 years. Here we are and that's 2 years assuming he was the coach and everything else stayed the same. I don't need to remind anyone here that much has changed in the last year. That's the story for me regardless of how much folks here want to blame him.

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Buzz made plenty of recruiting mistakes that have lead to the problems we have had the last couple of years.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Buzz made plenty of recruiting mistakes that have lead to the problems we have had the last couple of years.

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He sure did and in years past he was able to cover for them by plugging a Jae Crowder, Dwight Buycks or DJO into the mix. So many want to persecute the guy for his HS misses and ignore the impact the JUCO's made. Heck, off the top of my head, he put at least 4 JUCO's into the NBA. NOBODY has that kind of success with JUCO's and the regime he butted head's with prevented him from recruiting those type of players to make up for the inevitable misses. Blame the FP&LW reign of terror. That's all I"m saying.

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Originally Posted by AbovetheRim

He sure did and in years past he was able to cover for them by plugging a Jae Crowder, Dwight Buycks or DJO into the mix. So many want to persecute the guy for his HS misses and ignore the impact the JUCO's made. Heck, off the top of my head, he put at least 4 JUCO's into the NBA. NOBODY has that kind of success with JUCO's and the regime he butted head's with prevented him from recruiting those type of players to make up for the inevitable misses. Blame the FP&LW reign of terror. That's all I"m saying.

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There isn't one person to blame. If Buzz doesn't swing and miss so many times, he wouldn't have to rely on Jucos like Jae, who is nowhere close to graduating and was lucky to even be allowed into Marquette in the first place. Since MU hasn't reversed the changes that SP & LW made, to my knowledge, it is up the coach to adapt.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

There isn't one person to blame. If Buzz doesn't swing and miss so many times, he wouldn't have to rely on Jucos like Jae, who is nowhere close to graduating and was lucky to even be allowed into Marquette in the first place. Since MU hasn't reversed the changes that SP & LW made, to my knowledge, it is up the coach to adapt.

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Bucky? Is that you, Bucky?

Lol. Give me a break. At least two people associated with the University have told me about Jae and that the rule implemented by LW and SP were almost entirely related to his admission.

Anyone notice how Carlino is having more success than any other time in his career. MU is special baby!!! (in my Dick Vitale voice)

Jae enrolled with no chance to graduate. I agree with the rule that provides a Juco cannot come unless he can graduate. Our rule did not prohibit Jameel McKay from enrolling. Enough of the BS about the change of admission rules. We are an institution of higher learning--not a basketball mill.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

Jae enrolled with no chance to graduate. I agree with the rule that provides a Juco cannot come unless he can graduate. Our rule did not prohibit Jameel McKay from enrolling. Enough of the BS about the change of admission rules. We are an institution of higher learning--not a basketball mill.

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Could not agree more!

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Originally Posted by Gato78

Jae enrolled with no chance to graduate. I agree with the rule that provides a Juco cannot come unless he can graduate. Our rule did not prohibit Jameel McKay from enrolling. Enough of the BS about the change of admission rules. We are an institution of higher learning--not a basketball mill.

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According to the federal government, only 36.4% of full-time students graduate from college in four years. Why are athletes held to a standard other college students are not?

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Originally Posted by AbovetheRim

According to the federal government, only 36.4% of full-time students graduate from college in four years. Why are athletes held to a standard other college students are not?

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How many full-time students have 100% of their direct costs paid for and the academic help that MU basketball players get? No one is expecting a 100% graduation rate. No one isn't for allowing exception for admission for athletes who wouldn't get in as students otherwise. Marquette wants there to be limits however - they want Juco athletes with a reasonable expectation for graduation. Wojo seems to understand those limitations, yet is still able to recruit Jucos. Whether or not he gets them here and admitted is another thing.

And again, Buzz deserves a lot of the blame for this year and last year. Outside of the f*ck up that was Todd Mayo, he didn't sign a single quality guard in the classes of 2011 or 2012. That's why this year consists of a graduate transfer, a limited PG who is playing a level higher than he should, and a bunch of inexperience. The Juco thing is a complete red herring.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

How many full-time students have 100% of their direct costs paid for and the academic help that MU basketball players get? No one is expecting a 100% graduation rate. No one isn't for allowing exception for admission for athletes who wouldn't get in as students otherwise. Marquette wants there to be limits however - they want Juco athletes with a reasonable expectation for graduation. Wojo seems to understand those limitations, yet is still able to recruit Jucos. Whether or not he gets them here and admitted is another thing.

And again, Buzz deserves a lot of the blame for this year and last year. Outside of the f*ck up that was Todd Mayo, he didn't sign a single quality guard in the classes of 2011 or 2012. That's why this year consists of a graduate transfer, a limited PG who is playing a level higher than he should, and a bunch of inexperience. The Juco thing is a complete red herring.

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That is the cost element, but not the time element. The time demands of these kids is enormous. Beyond practice, games and travel. Individual skills, training room ... It is more than an 8 hour day they put in. Plus study, study hall ... They make up some of the schooling in summer. It is a difficult balance to be able to graduate in 4 years as an athlete and I give each one that does a ton of credit.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

That is the cost element, but not the time element. The time demands of these kids is enormous. Beyond practice, games and travel. Individual skills, training room ... It is more than an 8 hour day they put in. Plus study, study hall ... They make up some of the schooling in summer. It is a difficult balance to be able to graduate in 4 years as an athlete and I give each one that does a ton of credit.

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Yep.

Speaking of Buzz.....his VT team is beating Virginia by 5 with 14 minutes to go in the game......

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Originally Posted by Markedman

Speaking of Buzz.....his VT team is beating Virginia by 5 with 14 minutes to go in the game......

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Now up 10 with 10:34 to go. VA is stone cold in this game. Offense is what Bennett's team will not go to the Final 4.

Also interesting to see Shayok, Hill and Pierce all on the court simultaneously.