Wardle investigation?

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

I think we should let the investigation play out because my understanding is that there are more than just a couple unhappy fringe players. Again, nothing physical... I think Wardle may have made some mistakes recruiting wise and has some players who may not have been good fits with his program and what he is trying to do.

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He needs to recruit like Buzz. Make sure the kid is tough minded. Also needs to do a better job on the parents.

Very odd that in both cases it was the kids mommy who wrote the letter. I am glad I did not have a mommy like that!

That takes experience, and Wardle is still a very young coach. Coaches should learn things like that at a place like Green Bay, not in the national spotlight.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...upports-Wardle

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...against-Wardle

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...against-Wardle

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Not good. One side of the story obviously...but does Wardle survive this?

Wardle took a chance on a 7'0 footer as a walk on. Who wouldn't? The kid is 7'0 and wasn't taking up a scholarship, so if he doesn't pan out, no loss, right? Wrong. Looking at everything that is out there so far, the kid could not handle being yelled at, and his mom is over defensive. Posters here say they have seen that dating all the way back to grade school. Now the family is taking it a step farther, and seem dead set on ruining Wardle's career. Why? Because their son wasn't good enough for D1 basketball? Because he couldn't take getting yelled at?

It is D1 sports. Coaches yell. Coaches scream. Coaches push you as hard as they can to get the most out of you.

I played football in college. They pushed us hard, harder than I ever thought would be possible. We ran until we puked. We had a QB that headed to the trees because he was losing it out his back side like Bross did in the story. Did his parents complain? Did any of our parents complain? No, and the QB that headed for the trees ended the season as an All-American.

I don't care what these people say in the article, I have seen enough in Brian Wardle over the past 15 years to know that he is a good guy, a talented young coach and I just don't buy this crap.

First, why is the kid going public when there is an investigation? That clouds my judgment for the kid and his case.

Secondly, I don't care what level of play, I would NEVER recruit this kid to play after this. He may be done playing now. Who would want the mess and drama that the kid and his parents bring? Not me. Good luck to him in the Muni League.

Agree Mac - You filed your complaint, they launched an investigation, let the process take its course.

This could be irreparable damage to Wardle's career -- fair or not. The Bross Family could have gone public anytime. I question why now since the university made a commitment to an independent investigation and the findings of that investigation are still pending. Clearly the kid needs to be protected but at the same time due process should be honored. That is not happening.

I think we all should trust the process but that is now impossible and that is sad for everyone. The cloud will not go away. Is there a need to rush to judgement and not trust an independent professional investigator?

Bross obviously has his side of the story. But why on Earth did he go to the press with it? What is his motivation?

I think that is pretty clear.

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Originally Posted by TulsaWarrior

This could be irreparable damage to Wardle's career -- fair or not. The Bross Family could have gone public anytime. I question why now since the university made a commitment to an independent investigation and the findings of that investigation are still pending. Clearly the kid needs to be protected but at the same time due process should be honored. That is not happening.

I think we all should trust the process but that is now impossible and that is sad for everyone. The cloud will not go away. Is there a need to rush to judgement and not trust an independent professional investigator?

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This situation may not be a death knell to Wardle's future, but it is going to make it extremely difficult for him to rise the coaching ladder. And hell, if he wanted to pursue a career outside of basketball, he now has this crap that's been made public to deal with in dealing with prospective employers.

Going public prior to the findings of the independent investigator's report raises questions about the Bross Family goals in all this. I'm surprised their attorney allowed this to happen. I don't blame the reporter for doing the story but as a retired journalist I always asked myself why a source was talking to me? What did they hope to gain?

There are three sets of attorneys in all this -- the university's, the Bross Family's and Wardle's. What a cluster with no winners.

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Originally Posted by TulsaWarrior

Going public prior to the findings of the independent investigator's report raises questions about the Bross Family goals in all this. I'm surprised their attorney allowed this to happen. I don't blame the reporter for doing the story but as a retired journalist I always asked myself why a source was talking to me? What did they hope to gain?

There are three sets of attorneys in all this -- the university's, the Bross Family's and Wardle's. What a cluster with no winners.

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Agreed. There was no reason for Bross to do this at all if he expects to be taken seriously.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Agreed. There was no reason for Bross to do this at all if he expects to be taken seriously.

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His mommy just made sure he will not be taken seriously.

Exactly right Goo. In trying to make Wardle look bad they themselves made their kid look bad.

What really sucks about this is Wardle can not stand up and defend himself. Because of the privacy laws protecting students, he has to sit down and keep his mouth shut. They can make accusation after accusation and he can't dispute it. From the other articles in the GBPG it sounds as if the players are all defending Wardle, where if this was as bad as Bross claims it was, they wouldn't be backing Wardle.

Even though he can't defend himself or get into specifics, I am sure you will be seeing a press release from his attorney soon.

I have no idea what's true and what's not in wardle's situation. However, some of the Rutgers players defended Mike Rice, and there was video evidence of verbal and physical abuse. As shocked as I was to read that some Rutgers players defended Rice, they did, so I'm not quite sure how to view UWGB players supporting Wardle.

Still, the family was foolish for going public as there's no question it makes the kid and parents look bad. But, as my mother used to tell me, there is no Ministry of Logic.

I really don't know what to make of this. I know the Bross family. I don't know what they could possibly have to gain by making all of these public accusations. At worst, they may be destroying the career of a coach, and tarnishing the reputation of their son. Sad any way you look at it.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Exactly right Goo. In trying to make Wardle look bad they themselves made their kid look bad.

What really sucks about this is Wardle can not stand up and defend himself. Because of the privacy laws protecting students, he has to sit down and keep his mouth shut. They can make accusation after accusation and he can't dispute it. From the other articles in the GBPG it sounds as if the players are all defending Wardle, where if this was as bad as Bross claims it was, they wouldn't be backing Wardle.

Even though he can't defend himself or get into specifics, I am sure you will be seeing a press release from his attorney soon.

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Yup, even from within the the comments on that link:

Gregory Paul Le Sage · Green Bay, Wisconsin

To be honest I feel the kid needs to grow up a little bit. As a former player I never that Coach Wardle ever downgraded his players. Especially in a way that has been described here. Coach Wardle was the reason I came to UWGB from KY.

I had heard the stories about not being able to take the classes he wanted. If that is true I would have an issue with that as a parent.

Maybe this dork found a new career in advertising. He'd be perfect for the new K-Mart adds--- "You mean I can ship my pants?"

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

I had heard the stories about not being able to take the classes he wanted. If that is true I would have an issue with that as a parent.

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Not sure I agree with your concern. You have not heard the reason why. Yes, the class may not have interfered with practice, but are there any labs that would? The time demands of the class? Could the demands of the class be such that Wardle may not have wanted him to take them the first year? There is an adjustment to college for a normal student. Add to that the demands of major college athletics ... who knows, maybe it was in the kids best interest at the time. As a parent, I would welcome that.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

Not sure I agree with your concern. You have not heard the reason why. Yes, the class may not have interfered with practice, but are there any labs that would? The time demands of the class? Could the demands of the class be such that Wardle may not have wanted him to take them the first year? There is an adjustment to college for a normal student. Add to that the demands of major college athletics ... who knows, maybe it was in the kids best interest at the time. As a parent, I would welcome that.

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Just knowing the kid, and how smart he is, and the fact that he was a walk on and paying his own way, he should be able to take whatever he want's as long as it doesn't interfere with practice. Isn't the whole point of going to college to get an education in your chosen field?

I will be surprised if Wardle survives this, right or wrong. It's a new world these days.

This reminds me of Arthur Miller's play the Crucible. There's a witch hunt.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspor...d-is-not-true/

Ive said this before, but I think it would be best for the report to come out before passing judgement.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Ive said this before, but I think it would be best for the report to come out before passing judgement.

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And, the accuser should wait as well before going public...? Bottom line is that he was a walk-on and could have dropped off the team at any time....

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

Just knowing the kid, and how smart he is, and the fact that he was a walk on and paying his own way, he should be able to take whatever he want's as long as it doesn't interfere with practice. Isn't the whole point of going to college to get an education in your chosen field?

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As I said, you do not know the facts. Neither do I, but frankly I am very skeptical of what this kid says right now.

I also do not know if it is normal or unusual to take those classes as a frosh either.

I taught Strategies for Academic success. It was a required freshman class at my old college. Few students come into college with the study skills to take a tough schedule from the get go. They have to strike a balance and go from there. College profs don't babysit students and expect them to own the work without being spoon feed. I wish I had a dollar for the rude awakening even high school honor students experience making that jump to college. Warning students away from some classes can save them a lot of grief and perhaps money if they are paying their own freight. Wait until you make the adjustment before tackling all the tough classes.

I don't believe much of what is coming out of Mrs. Bross's mouth on this issue. What I can tell you is that Ryan Bross is an excellent student and should have been allowed to take any class he damn well pleased. Expecially since he is a walkon. I have a kid who is a sophmore in college, and for his major he had to take three chemistry classes and one biology class including labs in his first two years of college. They are lower level 100 and 200 level classes that freshman and sophmores take.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

And, the accuser should wait as well before going public...? Bottom line is that he was a walk-on and could have dropped off the team at any time....

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Oh I agree with you completely on that.

I don't believe the class thing. If it were true, don't you think there would be a reason? "Coach, I want to take this class. It is M-W-F from 3:00-3:50."

I can easily see a coach saying no, as you will miss 1/2 of practice three days per week. I have no idea what the situation is, but I have a hard time believing any of this is "the absolute truth", probably all exaggerated a great deal.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

I don't believe the class thing. If it were true, don't you think there would be a reason? "Coach, I want to take this class. It is M-W-F from 3:00-3:50."

I can easily see a coach saying no, as you will miss 1/2 of practice three days per week. I have no idea what the situation is, but I have a hard time believing any of this is "the absolute truth", probably all exaggerated a great deal.

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Quite frankly Jim, the not being able to take the classes he wanted is the only part of the story I believe. I had heard that as early as first semester.

Yes, but why? Was it a class time interfering with practice? Was it to keep the overall course load down? I am not saying it is not true, because I don't know, I am just saying that if it is true, what was the reason?

If my kid asks if she can go to the park with her friends and I say no because she hasn't finished her homework, is it fair for her to tell everyone that I won't let her go because I am being mean? No - there was a reason.

The kid saying Wardle wouldn't let him take a class sounds like a partial story to me.

Could be. I'm just saying that is the only thing in the story that sounds plausible to me.
Classes like chemistry and biology at the freshman level typically have several sections and different class times. If it was a scheduling with baskeball practice issue I think that could have been worked around by taking the class at a different time. Maybe coach Wardle wants the kids to take harder classes such as these during summer school. I don't know. I'm just saying that is the only part of the story that I believe has any merit.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Yes, but why? Was it a class time interfering with practice? Was it to keep the overall course load down? I am not saying it is not true, because I don't know, I am just saying that if it is true, what was the reason?

If my kid asks if she can go to the park with her friends and I say no because she hasn't finished her homework, is it fair for her to tell everyone that I won't let her go because I am being mean? No - there was a reason.

The kid saying Wardle wouldn't let him take a class sounds like a partial story to me.

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Exactly. That has been my point to '72. He appears to believe one side of the story without knowing the other side. That is a dangerous way to operate. There are likely reasons for it, if it actually happened.

GB is a smaller school. Your class schedule times for chemistry and biology may be limited in a given semester. Again, so far we're just hearing one side of the story and left to figure out the side of a person who is honoring a gag order and is limited because of privacy laws. (can't talk about a student's situation publicly) The Bross Family attorney knows that the school and coach cannot speak specifics at this stage of the investigation. Why did he allow his client to talk to a reporter at this particular time? I wish I had the answer.

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Originally Posted by TulsaWarrior

GB is a smaller school. Your class schedule times for chemistry and biology may be limited in a given semester. Again, so far we're just hearing one side of the story and left to figure out the side of a person who is honoring a gag order and is limited because of privacy laws. (can't talk about a student's situation publicly) The Bross Family attorney knows that the school and coach cannot speak specifics at this stage of the investigation. Why did he allow his client to talk to a reporter at this particular time? I wish I had the answer.

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As I said earlier, I have no clue! I don't know what the Bross's have to gain by talking about this publicly.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

Exactly. That has been my point to '72. He appears to believe one side of the story without knowing the other side. That is a dangerous way to operate. There are likely reasons for it, if it actually happened.

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Didn't say that I absolutely believed it. I said that the class thing was the only part of the story that I thought was plausible. Jim, why would a coach of a walk on who is red shirted who can't play anyway care what a kid's course load is? Wouldn't you actually want the kid to load up on classes during this period so maybe he could have easier courses during a period of eligibility?

You guys seem to think I am defending Bross. I'm not. I believe Wardle's side of the story. I just think that if any part of this story is true it is most likely to be the academic portion.

As I mentioned before I have worked with kids on college class schedule issues both for on campus and distance learning. I can't tell you how many kids from schools across the country are taking DL courses, from my former school because it fit their schedule better and was more cost effective. Getting the classes you want and need to get your degree is a juggling act. And yes someone who has worked on the college level for years knows better than a teenager or parent what may be the best approach. My bet is the GB basketball program has a pretty good academic adviser because the team has had few academic casualties over the past decade. Wasn't Coug's the only one in the past four years?