OT RIP James Foley

[Nukem2]

Truly tragic. James gave voice to those without a voice. I had followed his career dating back to his time in Libya and had hoped and prayed that, like in Libya, he would emerge alive from the hell that is Syria. To say ISIS give new meaning to the word evil is an understatement. My heart breaks for James' family and friends and the world has lost another fearless chronicler of events. The man was not some adrenaline junkie but a true journalist who told the stories many lacked the courage to cover. RIP James.

+1... Need to get back on topic here.

[mufan2003]

Can we keep the politics out of here? Because I could say that if it wasn't for the fact that we needlessly de-stabilized the region in the first place by unseating a regime for illegitimate purposes, that ISIS might not have developed in the power vacuum that replaced it.

Or I could point out that ISIS is very much unlike Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler was the head of a legitimate state and all that entails...like a standing Army, manufacturing infrastructure, an economy, a population of supporters, etc.. ISIS is a bunch of well-armed bandits. They don't govern anything. They don't run anything. It's a false equivalency. And false equivalencies have gotten us in trouble in the past.

Leading up to the Iraq war in 2003....BOTH democrats and republicans were in agreement and on record that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and was determined to use them. He had used them in the past on his own people. Democrats such as John Kerry and Hillary Clinton believed this. Congress debated invading Iraq for weeks, some intelligence theories exist that Saddam exported his WMD's before the invasion to win the international PR battle. Saddam killed thousands upon thousands of his own people, the mass graves existed that proved this.

Iraq was stable when Barack Obama took office in 2009. In 2011, Obama turned down a "Status of Forces" agreement that would have left 20,000 troops in Iraq. Obama said no to 20,000, then said no to 15,000, then said no to 10,000. To the point where there were to be no troops left in Iraq. That made Obama a political champion with his party. Obama was advised as far back as 2013 about the growing ISIS threat in Syria, and that he should act. Obama refused. ISIS started off around 2,000 and intelligence estimates have them now as large as 80,000. They are slaughtering innocent Yazidis and Christians throughout Iraq.

America has the military power to wipe this group out. It is a terrorist group just as Hamas and Al-Qaeda are. You cannot negotiate with them. They will hate democracies no matter what we do. Only option is to worship Allah and accept reduced rights for women. If we stay isolated over here, eventually another 9/11 will happen if not worse. I don't mean to take the focus off of James Foley in this thread, but I feel strongly about this and if America wants to stick its head in the sand and do nothing, evil will continue to grow like a cancer in the world.

[TheSultan]

Nevermind...

Needless to say I vehemently disagree not only about your revisionist history, but also about your conclusion.

[unclejohn]

It is terribly tragic. I think some things need to be kept in mind here. Foley knew his job was dangerous. He did it anyway. That does not mean he deserved to die or that he was stupid. But he did understand the risk he was taking. He felt it was worth the risk. He dedicated his life to a principle, and paid for it with his life. Perhaps not the decision most of us would make. Perhaps a better life than many will lead.

A country cannot protect all of its citizens from any danger anywhere around the world. At the point Foley was taken hostage, his life was in severe danger. It would have been difficult to do anything to save him, although attempts were made to do so.

According to the organization that killed him, Foley was killed in response to the US airstrikes on their positions. Those air strikes likely prevented the slaughter of thousands of non-combatants. They may and probably did save the lives of many more. They certainly changed the tide of battle in the area, almost certainly saving the lives of many more, perhaps millions.

Americans love to take the brute force approach to any problem. If we just work harder, spend more money, kill more people , make harsher demands, make someone "an offer they can't refuse," we can do anything. But we can't. The brute force approach often does not work in the short term, and used alone, never works in the long term. Oprah Winfrey decided to change the educational system in South Africa. She spent an enormous amount of money. She personally interviewed prospective students. It did not work. There are structural problems of long standing with the South African educational system that cannot be solved by throwing money at them. And furnishing the school with an Olympic swimming pool and Egyptian cotton sheets was stupid. The problems in the Middle East are decades, centuries in the making. They cannot be solved overnight by any amount of force. Any action taken by any country will have disadvantages and unintended consequences.

So let us mourn the death of a brave man who, for good and benevolent reasons, chose a job which he knew to be dangerous in pursuit of a greater good. Let us grieve for the death of a good man, and celebrate a life well-lived.

[Nukem2]

Extremists need to be put on the run. Force is the only way to treat them. Otherwise they just laugh at us while they create havoc. Obama does not get that. Cannot deal with these terrorists, plain and simple.

[kneelb4zerg]

Like it or not but America is the world's only democratic super power and a catalyst for freedom around the world. Obama doesn't believe in this concept - American exceptionalism - and it is depressingly sad.

[TheSultan]

Just a trite phrase to make us feel good about ourselves. There are a lot of things great about America. And there are plenty of flaws as well. The dustpan of history is littered with societies who thought they were exceptional.

[Nukem2]

When dealing with terrorists, we as a country cannot stick our heads in the sand. This is a small world now.

[Gato78]

Except Obama has been lobbing bombs at them. Other than that he hasn't been doing anything. Of course, the Foley murder was stated to be in direct response to Obama's bombing so, except for Obama's bombing ICIS, he should start bombing ISIS.

[kneelb4zerg]

Just a trite phrase to make us feel good about ourselves. There are a lot of things great about America. And there are plenty of flaws as well. The dustpan of history is littered with societies who thought they were exceptional.

Who else do you want shaping the direction of the world? China? Russia? Do tell.