So about the ACC in MSG

[MUBasketball]

F them.
Predatory pricks.
F them.

I agree, and perfectly stated!

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Another thing with the ACC. Their moves seem to be deliberately trying to take down the Big East. They keep raiding the same conference, keep trying to compete with us, try to one-up us in our backyard.

Other moves have been made but they usually seem to be more about strengthening the raiding conference rather than eliminating the target conference.

[MUBasketball]

But again, that's not the first time conferences raided one another.

The SEC took Arkansas from the SWC. The Big 8 took four schools from the SWC and basically left the rest hanging. Then there is the B10 taking from the B12 and the ACC. The P12 taking from the B12 and Mountain West. You guys are acting like the ACC is the only aggressor and the BE is the only victim here. Cmon... If the BE decides to expand down the line, they are going to probably look at a couple A10 schools. And our excuse is going to be "well they did it first?"

Why can't we simply be intellectually honest enough to understand where we are on the food chain and we participate in the same things that we are bitching about others doing. The BE is below the major football conferences. They take what they want and there isn't much we can do. And we do the same to the A10, the MVC and others below us.

You can't blame the ACC for doing what they did. It made sense for them. Just like you can't blame the BE for first raiding the CUSA for schools...and then the A10 and MVC.

True.

But, I think it's pretty clear this is different. When the Big Ten took Nebraska from the Big 12, Maryland from the ACC, and Rutgers from the Big East they chose those teams based on whatever criteria they valued most and found those to be the best fits. That was the end of it.

The Pac 12 took on Colorado from the Big 12 and Utah from the Mountain West. Those two made the most sense for their expansion, so they invited them. That was the end of it.

The ACC, however, continues to poach the Big East. Now that they've poached the league, now they are trying to do all that they can to kick them out of MSG so they can hold their conference tournament there. Try as they may, it appears that it won't happen (not sure if I believe it won't happen eventually, but regardless). OK, if they can't get in MSG, they'll do the next best thing and get as close to MSG as possible and hold it in Brooklyn. Want to really play hardball? They move their traditional Sunday tournament championship game to go head-to-head against the Big East championship with the sole intention of keeping asses out of MSG's seats and stealing TV eyeballs from FS1 over to ESPN for their title game.

I'm really quite flabergasted that you don't think it's a real big deal what the ACC is doing. In other instances, I do believe conference moves were done with some civility. With the ACC, Swofford is trying to completely kill another conference. Not cool!

[Goose85]

The ACC is very top heavy, which is why so many think it is the best conference (and that Coach K tells them that), but from top to bottom not so much.

What happens if Duke and Syracuse struggle for a few years post Coaches K and Boeheim (like UNC and others)?
These two have been their basketball program for so long, few recall what they were like before these coaches were there. Boeheim head coach at Syracuse since 1976 and K head at Duke since 1980.

They are going to play the tourney in NY in 2017. Coach K will be 70 and Boeheim will be 72. After these two are done, will anyone else in the league (other than ESPN) really care if the tourney is in NY?

[MUBasketball]

I like the A-10. They would be better served to play in Philly at The Palestra.

"I hate that whole damn conference" was in reference to the ACC.

[TheSultan]

Sultan, I think the issue that rubs most here is that most of those other moves were football motivated. The ACC's initial moves of Va Tech and Miami were too.

This recent decade has seen that change. The Big East raided C-USA not just to shore up their weakened football but to enhance their basketball. That was different. And the ACC clearly didn't like it. With Duke, UNC, Maryland, etc they were used to being the alpha dog in basketball. The Big East starting in 2005 was clearly the strongest basketball conference.

Florida, Virginia, those were areas that made sense to the ACC. Boston was a stretch, but at least on the Atlantic. But Syracuse? Pitt? Louisville? Notre Dame? Those were clear basketball moves made by a conference jealous that they were no longer top dog.

I get it. The Big East left their geographic footprint first, but I think people take issue that in the past basketball was always an afterthought and the ACC made it a focal point. They took our little sport off the back burner. Maybe the Big East started it with the C-USA raid, but now that we are the ones targeted, people take issue. Can't be that surprising, is it?

I guess to me it really doesn't matter what their motivations which sports they were trying to strengthen and why. The fact is that our conference engages in the same practices.

And yeah we can be all flippant and say "f*ck them" and whine about the demise of higher education, but then fans of Dayton and their ilk have just as much right to do and say the same thing. So either you have to realize you are a part of the same problem, or you just have to live with it and move on.

Some people like being the victim I guess.

[TheSultan]

True.

But, I think it's pretty clear this is different. When the Big Ten took Nebraska from the Big 12, Maryland from the ACC, and Rutgers from the Big East they chose those teams based on whatever criteria they valued most and found those to be the best fits. That was the end of it.

The Pac 12 took on Colorado from the Big 12 and Utah from the Mountain West. Those two made the most sense for their expansion, so they invited them. That was the end of it.

The ACC, however, continues to poach the Big East. Now that they've poached the league, now they are trying to do all that they can to kick them out of MSG so they can hold their conference tournament there. Try as they may, it appears that it won't happen (not sure if I believe it won't happen eventually, but regardless). OK, if they can't get in MSG, they'll do the next best thing and get as close to MSG as possible and hold it in Brooklyn. Want to really play hardball? They move their traditional Sunday tournament championship game to go head-to-head against the Big East championship with the sole intention of keeping asses out of MSG's seats and stealing TV eyeballs from FS1 over to ESPN for their title game.

I'm really quite flabergasted that you don't think it's a real big deal what the ACC is doing. In other instances, I do believe conference moves were done with some civility. With the ACC, Swofford is trying to completely kill another conference. Not cool!

Regardless of what their motivations are (and I don't think "killing" the BE is by any means their biggest motivation), they are doing what is in their right to do.

Look, if the BE is such a great conference, and we have an "iron clad" contract through 2026 at MSG, and a Fox contract of similar length, what exactly are we worried about here? The conference has 12 years to prove that it can perform with the BCS conferences both on the floor and in the ratings. And if it can't, well, we don't really deserve either the contract or the Garden.

[TheSultan]

Another thing with the ACC. Their moves seem to be deliberately trying to take down the Big East. They keep raiding the same conference, keep trying to compete with us, try to one-up us in our backyard.

Other moves have been made but they usually seem to be more about strengthening the raiding conference rather than eliminating the target conference.

It's because the ACC is the bottom of the football pile. (And yes, football was by far their primary motivation.) Who else would they raid from? The SEC? The MAC? The BE made the most sense because those schools would say "yes" and it expands their geographic reach.

And if their primary goal was to kill the BE, all they would have had to do is invite Nova and Georgetown as basketball only members, given them each $2 - $3M a year, and the BE is dead. (And both those schools would have accepted that deal in a heartbeat, just like Marquette would have, and it would have cost each of their members peanuts - about $400k per year.)

[MUBasketball]

Regardless of what their motivations are (and I don't think "killing" the BE is by any means their biggest motivation), they are doing what is in their right to do.

I think you're being pretty naive about the ACC's intentions.

[TheSultan]

I think you're being pretty naive about the ACC's intentions.

They could have easily done it already if it were their primary intentions.