BrewCity...

[TheSultan]

Thanks for quoting me out of context. I think I had a qualifier in the preceding clause about the teams being equal. It is like looking at eFG% being predictive of MU's win over UNCC in '77 without acknowledging that Butch's length of the court pass was determinative of the outcome. Some things cannot be measured.

Who said anything about eFG% being "predictive?"

And it doesn't matter because I think we are just saying the same thing. You are simply saying that playing a certain way leads to certain results, when I am simply describing the results.

You: Guts------------------------------------------>Victory
Me: Guts--------------stats----------------------->Victory

[MUfan12]

Execution will always be paramount, but the insights analytics provide are completely changing the way teams scout and prepare. It's really fascinating stuff. I'd recommend Andy Glockner's book to anyone wanting to learn more about it.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Thanks. Appreciate that. Are you becoming that defensive about your position that anybody that disagrees with it is "idiotic and ignorant"? Stats tell you what has happened in the past so you can work on your game to try to improve. It guarantees nothing pertaining to future success. Too many other factors involved. How do you measure if players buy into the stats and adjust their games accordingly? How do you measure your teams or your opponents toughness? How do you measure your teams or your opponents willingness to do whatever it takes to win? How do you measure how kids handle pressure at any point in a game, beginning, middle or end? How do you measure if a kid has that intangible where he just knows how to win?

I think most of us find your statistical analysis has merit and is useful. We just don't think it is the end-all be-all to the extent you do. Hopefully you can live with that. Obviously, you are struggling with it.

I'm sick and tired of how any attempt to understand something is immediately attacked. I absolutely hate how people are so intolerant of intelligence and the search for knowledge and understanding. If it makes me a bad person that the derision of knowledge absolutely disgusts me, then I'm guilty.

If you want to believe that basketball is just a bunch of guys randomly throwing the ball in the air and hoping it falls in the right direction, I guess that's your prerogative, but I firmly, completely believe that there is a quantifiable difference between Markus Howard's and Duane Wilson's ability to shoot the ball from three (for example) and anyone trying to say otherwise is positively a moron.

What people call intangibles are things we just haven't figured out how to measure yet.

[Nukem2]

I'm sick and tired of how any attempt to understand something is immediately attacked. I absolutely hate how people are so intolerant of intelligence and the search for knowledge and understanding. If it makes me a bad person that the derision of knowledge absolutely disgusts me, then I'm guilty.

If you want to believe that basketball is just a bunch of guys randomly throwing the ball in the air and hoping it falls in the right direction, I guess that's your prerogative, but I firmly, completely believe that there is a quantifiable difference between Markus Howard's and Duane Wilson's ability to shoot the ball from three (for example) and anyone trying to say otherwise is positively a moron.

What people call intangibles are things we just haven't figured out how to measure yet.

As another poster suggested, the metrics do help in game preparation. That's fine. And, for some fans, the metrics can tell us more about what has transpired. That's fine too. But metrics are not going to do much intra-game. I seriously doubt that derivative metrics are ever going to measure intangibles. But, if you enjoy analyzing metrics, please continue to do so. Have a Happy New Year.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

As another poster suggested, the metrics do help in game preparation. That's fine. And, for some fans, the metrics can tell us more about what has transpired. That's fine too. But metrics are not going to do much intra-game. I seriously doubt that derivative metrics are ever going to measure intangibles. But, if you enjoy analyzing metrics, please continue to do so. Have a Happy New Year.

Maybe not in our lifetime, but mankind once created gods to explain weather, health, planting, and hundreds of other things that are now understandable.

In game, yes it matters. When a team is killing you on the pick and roll and you change defense to prevent it, that's stats. When a guy hits four threes from the corner and you need to close out faster, that's stats. When a guy always scores from "his spot"" the floor, that's stats. Adjusting to those things requires identifying the problem and improving your actions.

Some people call that "guts" or "intangibles" but it's actually having the intellectual savvy to identify a problem and the physical ability to correct it. And I'm not one that thinks the desire to understand those things is bad.

[MUAlphaBangura]

I'm sick and tired of how any attempt to understand something is immediately attacked. I absolutely hate how people are so intolerant of intelligence and the search for knowledge and understanding. If it makes me a bad person that the derision of knowledge absolutely disgusts me, then I'm guilty.

If you want to believe that basketball is just a bunch of guys randomly throwing the ball in the air and hoping it falls in the right direction, I guess that's your prerogative, but I firmly, completely believe that there is a quantifiable difference between Markus Howard's and Duane Wilson's ability to shoot the ball from three (for example) and anyone trying to say otherwise is positively a moron.

What people call intangibles are things we just haven't figured out how to measure yet.

Still with the name calling. Wow, the insecurity is shining through. And the best part of all, is you thinking I am such a simpleton that I believe basketball "is just a bunch of guys randomly throwing the ball in the air and hoping it falls in the right direction." So you must think that if we don't go by your analytics, we are just a bunch of hayseeds from nowheresville. You couldn't be more wrong. Happy New Year friend.

[Nukem2]

In game, yes it matters. When a team is killing you on the pick and roll and you change defense to prevent it, that's stats. When a guy hits four threes from the corner and you need to close out faster, that's stats. When a guy always scores from "his spot"" the floor, that's stats. Adjusting to those things requires identifying the problem and improving your actions.

Don't think one needs stats or metrics for these situations. They are rather obvious even to casual fans.

[Phantom Warrior]

I think I must be lost. I must have inadvertently wandered over to that other site, the one that starts with an "S"....not Dodds's Scout site - that other one - oh yeah, Scoop.

"Moron"? "Idiot"? "Ignorant"? WTF!!!!!

Enough already!

[TheSultan]

Still with the name calling. Wow, the insecurity is shining through. And the best part of all, is you thinking I am such a simpleton that I believe basketball "is just a bunch of guys randomly throwing the ball in the air and hoping it falls in the right direction." So you must think that if we don't go by your analytics, we are just a bunch of hayseeds from nowheresville. You couldn't be more wrong. Happy New Year friend.

It isn't "his analytics." It is a body of work that has been developed over the course of time, just like in baseball. And if you are a coach that doesn't "go by" them, you won't be a coach for long.

You don't have to look too closely to see that the game has changed. Post game is emphasized less. Mid-range game is disappearing. That's not a coincidence. It's because metrics are showing teams how to be more efficient - as D'Antoni mentioned above.

[Nukem2]

It isn't "his analytics." It is a body of work that has been developed over the course of time, just like in baseball. And if you are a coach that doesn't "go by" them, you won't be a coach for long.

You don't have to look too closely to see that the game has changed. Post game is emphasized less. Mid-range game is disappearing. That's not a coincidence. It's because metrics are showing teams how to be more efficient - as D'Antoni mentioned above.

Quite simply, teams are shooting a lot more 3s now (and, there are more guys that can shoot it effectively as time has evolved from the 80s). Don't need metrics or analytics to understand that.