OT World Cup Thread

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

You'd get killed! Yeah, you picked Germany, but that is like picking Michigan State to win it all. A pretty reasonable guess in most years, but not one that is going to win a pool for you, because a lot of other people will pick them as well. You would have gotten clobbered in the earlier rounds. Honduras? Honduras????

Oh, all right. My dark horse picks were Ghana and Nigeria.

Regarding your dark horse picks, that's what makes it so fun to pick these things!

I actually didnt get terribly clobbered in the earlier rounds and actually won my pool for what it's worth and I havent won an NCAA pool in 15 years so I'll take the victory lap whenever I can as it doesnt come around very often In my defense I did pick the finalists (Germany and Arg) and the winner (Germany) and had Costa Rica and Belgium making some noise. My biggest stinker of a pick was Japan who I thought would make some noise (and yes Honduras ended up stinking up the joint as well).

Definitely a fun tournament and cant wait for the next one where I will more than likely strike out on the majority of my picks. The tourney certainly got me through this dead sports period here in Chicago (aside from NBA free agency).

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I did not believe in the Germans, primarily due to their back line and Sami Khedira looking like crap at the end of the club season in his recovery from knee surgery. Khedira played some of the best football of his life, and Germany lucked out that there were few center forwards capable enough to take advantage of their back line (like Balotelli did in the Euro 2012 semis). If Higuain remains on-side during the disallowed goal or finishes off Kroos's early blunder, I think Argentines could have won 1-0 or even 2-0.

I would have loved to have seen a Colombia-Germany game, but alas the Colombian defense betrayed them on set pieces and Brazil mangled their way to the German pounding. The Colombians could be really good in 2018, but I fear that they will be up against a good number of dangerous European sides that will be in great form as their core stars hit their prime. I expect for the Americans to be a bigger threat to make a run, but again they could be up against some European firepower (especially if we are stuck in a group with two European teams again and do not earn a seed).

I couldn't agree more. Argies had their chances and couldn't make the most of them. Three very good scoring chances in regulation (including the one Messi slotted wide) but it all comes down to finishing, and Germany did just that. Great match, and the best team in Brazil won.

I also think Germany/Colombia would have been fantastic. Brazil kind of backed into that semifinal and I think Colombia would have made a much better opponent. Colombia was the best team of the group stage and quite possibly the tournament. That's the greatest match that didn't happen.

Germany though deserved the title. I don't agree with everyone trumping them as a dominant side, though. They were good, but definitely mortal. Their gaudy goal differential was almost all down to how easily Portugal and Brazil rolled over once they were down a couple goals. Ghana, USA, Algeria, & France all made Germany look pretty average. Great teams find ways to win, and Germany did, but any talk of them being an all-time great team (like Spain 2010) is very premature.

[TheSultan]

Hell, Brazil backed their way into their quarterfinal. If that strike from Chile was six inches lower, it's game over.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

A few questions for guys who follow this stuff a lot more than me:

-Lallas and other commentators consistently refer to the "changes to the program" that Germany had been making for the last ten years as the primary reason for their success. What specifically were these changes? Were these changes implemented by Klinsman and is it safe to say he is trying to make these changes here in the US?

-I realize they don't grow on trees, but what is the reason why the US can't find an attacker who scares the living crap out of the other team when he has the ball? Is there someone in the pipeline that could be this guy for the US in the next world cup?

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

[MUfan12]

A few questions for guys who follow this stuff a lot more than me:

-Lallas and other commentators consistently refer to the "changes to the program" that Germany had been making for the last ten years as the primary reason for their success. What specifically were these changes? Were these changes implemented by Klinsman and is it safe to say he is trying to make these changes here in the US?

-I realize they don't grow on trees, but what is the reason why the US can't find an attacker who scares the living crap out of the other team when he has the ball? Is there someone in the pipeline that could be this guy for the US in the next world cup?

Jurgen went young with his team in 2006, giving many of the players on the current squad their first WC experience. Also, the Bundesliga adopted more of an academy model after their Euro 2000 debacle. All helped develop more players. Tactically, Klinsmann and Low had them playing far more of an attacking style when they took over.

The second question is one that has alluded them for years. Personally, I have it down to technical ability. That player will likely end up being a dual national that was trained overseas. Those who come up in the US just don't have it.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

After Euro 2000, Germany was in a pretty poor state, having finished bottom of their group. In a joint effort between the DFB (Germany's national team organization), the Bundesliga I & II (Germany's top two pro soccer leagues), and the club teams, Germany overhauled their youth development system. This involved investigating other nations and how they developed players, creating new training regimens, and enhancing their scouting to ensure the best young players got into the best systems. This has helped them develop players like Thomas Muller, Andre Schurrle, Mats Hummels, Mesut Ozil, Julian Draxler, Toni Kroos, and Mario Gotze, all emerging stars that are 25 years old or younger.

If you're interested in more, this article from the Guardian does a good job of looking at how Germany now approaches their youth system. Rather than focusing on only recruiting the biggest and strongest at all positions, they now are putting more emphasis on speed and technical savvy in attack (seen with players like Kroos, Schurrle, and Ozil). They still favor big players in the defense, but are spending more time on making sure their defenders are also good technically rather than just physical bruisers.

The real beauty of watching Germany now is you can see the transition as it is happening. A player like Per Mertesacker is the epitome of the "old" Germany. Big, strong, but slow and not very good technically. Physically dominating, but not nearly as skilled as the new guard defenders like Benedikt Howedes or Mats Hummels, who are big (but not as big) but far more quick, agile, and capable on the ball. Miroslav Klose played more of a role than Mertesacker, but epitomizes old school Germany. Still fairly big and strong, he picks his spots well and is brilliant in front of the goal, but unlike Thomas Muller, isn't nearly as capable in distributing the ball or helping the play develop to others. Both have their uses, but whereas Klose is a butcher knife in front of goal, Muller is a Swiss Army Knife.

The first time USA tried to hire Klinsmann was in 2006 after Arena's disastrous World Cup. Klinsmann stepped down after his semifinal run with Germany, seen as a huge success, and was immediately the favorite for the USA job because he lived in California and had ties to USA soccer. However he wanted control over our youth system, which Sunil Gulati, head of the USSF (United States Soccer Federation) was unwilling to give. We went with Bob Bradley instead, and while he had a successful run, nothing really changed or improved. Bradley did a decent job, but Gulati always wanted Klinsmann, so when USA lost a 2-0 lead over Mexico in the 2011 Gold Cup Final to fall to a 4-2 defeat, Bradley was fired and Klinsmann was given the reins.

Enough history lesson, back to your question. In 2013, Klinsmann re-upped his contract through 2018 and gained the title of Technical Director. This is what he coveted in 2006 and I'm pretty sure was something that he knew was coming when he agreed to take the USA job in 2011. It will allow him to start overhauling our youth system, and is a big part of why he's been tied so closely to MLS. Klinsmann knows that the strength of the national team will be tied to the strength of our domestic league. To build that strength, it has to come from homegrown players. Over the past 10-15 years MLS has sent the occasional player on to greatness overseas. Dempsey, Bradley, Howard, and others have had varying levels of success. But it wasn't a mistake that Klinsmann's roster focus had so many German-Americans. Fabian Johnson came up in the youth system that has helped make Germany so successful -- he played on Germany's Under-21 team that won the Euro Championship in 2009 with Ozil, Neuer, Howedes, Hummels, and Boateng. Julian Green, Timmy Chandler, and John Brooks all also spent some time in that system and learned the game in the new German style.

MLS is starting to improve their academies and I am confident Klinsmann is going to try to continue that. DeAndre Yedlin has been one of the most successful homegrown players -- a player that came up in a team's youth system and made it all the way to the national team, but there are many others. Guys like Wil Trapp, Kellyn Acosta, Erik Palmer-Brown, Jose Villarreal, and Harry Shipp among others are fruits of our slowly improving youth system that look like potential stars of the future. Look for even more overhaul and Klinsmann gets more comfortable with his technical director role.

Okay...on to the attacker question. The simple answer is that there aren't many of them in the world. But I think for us specifically, it's because of the focus of our team. When you don't have a great team, you always tend to build through the defense. That's why over the past 25 years, the USA has been regarded as having a stout defense and solid goalkeepers. Because if you are strong there, you can usually at least hold out for a chance to steal a game or at worst get a draw. It isn't sexy, but it does the job. Further, the most gifted natural athletes in our country are more likely to play football or basketball. The sports are simply more popular, and kids see a more clear path to wealth through those sports. All the more reason the youth system is important. I especially look at basketball. Those players that are too small for the NBA? The 5'8" point guards, the 6'4" power forward with a rock solid frame, those guys are suited perfectly for the game of soccer. If the improved youth focus can get those kids to play the beautiful game from the youth level, you'll see that player develop.

That's why Klinsmann has started trying to find dual-nationals. Players like Julian Green, Aron Johansson, Mix Diskerud, and Gedion Zelalem (more on him shortly). They grew up as top-level athletes in their country as offensive players. As great as guys like Landon Donovan and Clint Dempsey may be, neither of them are guys that will ever be the best player on a Premier League team, or good enough to play for Madrid or Barcelona. If we can start developing youth players, maybe one can become that guy. Or if we can get players into those academies overseas at a young age -- we have a good start as American youths Josh Pynadath (11 years old) and Ben Lederman (13 years old) are currently playing professionally in the Real Madrid and FC Barcelona academies, respectively.

But until those guys develop, our best hope is to pluck a dual-national. Which is where Gedion Zelalem comes in. He's a highly regarded 17-year-old that has already played first-team minutes for Arsenal, one of the top teams in England. He also has German heritage, but his father has lived here since 2006 and recently applied for citizenship. Under US law, Gedion would gain citizenship as soon as his father does. He could be that breakout player in 2018, and along with Julian Green and a few other overseas youngsters (Rubio Rubin in Holland, Sebastian Lletget in England, Paul Arriola in Mexico, and former Marquette commit Andrija Novakovich in England) gives us some hope that maybe one of these kids will develop into the player we all thought Freddy Adu might be but never was.

[warriorfan4life]

Jurgen went young with his team in 2006, giving many of the players on the current squad their first WC experience. Also, the Bundesliga adopted more of an academy model after their Euro 2000 debacle. All helped develop more players. Tactically, Klinsmann and Low had them playing far more of an attacking style when they took over.

The second question is one that has alluded them for years. Personally, I have it down to technical ability. That player will likely end up being a dual national that was trained overseas. Those who come up in the US just don't have it.

I am hoping that Klinsmann's longest term accomplishment as U.S. coach is starting the fundamental change needed at the youth levels. Until the coaching and development here improves, we will have to be reliant on dual nationals that train overseas.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

My real hope is that after 2018, Sunil Gulati retires and Klinsmann takes over as President of the USSF. That will give him the full control he needs to truly revamp everything we do from the ground up. Honestly, I think he's a better administrator and director than he is a coach.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Holy $hit brewcity - ask and you shall receive!! Thanks so much for the detailed report!! Outstanding stuff. I'm literally forwarding your writing to my wife as she was curious about the same questions.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Holy $hit brewcity - ask and you shall receive!! Thanks so much for the detailed report!! Outstanding stuff. I'm literally forwarding your writing to my wife as she was curious about the same questions.

Happy to help

Love talking about this kind of stuff, and sometimes once I get rambling, I just don't stop.