Another example of Buzz's stubbornness

[Nukem2]

MU lost the game - I would have liked my chances better with Deonte in there - the end result certainly couldn't have been worse if Deonte was in there.

Yeah, I guess the idea is to out score the opponent. "Good" defense is nice, but need to have offensive alternatives.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

MU lost the game - I would have liked my chances better with Deonte in there - the end result certainly couldn't have been worse if Deonte was in there.

You can't have that mindset. It's a complete fallacy. If Todd's three with 17 seconds left falls it's a tie game and we need one stop for overtime. You simply can't look at the result and say "we'd have been better off playing him because we lost." No one KNEW we were going to lose, so that's just 20/20 hindsight.

[CaribouJim]

You can't have that mindset. It's a complete fallacy. If Todd's three with 17 seconds left falls it's a tie game and we need one stop for overtime. You simply can't look at the result and say "we'd have been better off playing him because we lost." No one KNEW we were going to lose, so that's just 20/20 hindsight.

BUT MU DID LOSE!!!!!!! THAT IS A FACT!!! I PERSONALLY would have liked our chances better with Deonte in there. That is only my position - others including you, feel differently. I was calling for him to get back in the game in the game thread because I thought we had a better chance to win with him there. FACT, the end result could not have been any worse if Deonte would have been in there, but we will never know if Deonte would have made any difference in the end result. You believe what you want to believe, but don't try to make up a scientific way to rationalize your position. There is no "fallacy" in mine.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

No need to get all worked up, Jim. Your argument of "the end result certainly couldn't have been worse if Deonte was in there" is where you commit a logical fallacy. The only reason you can say that is because you know the end result. But with 7:00 left in the game, no one knew what the end result would be whether Burton played or not.

But what I'm more interested in is how Marquette would have been more efficient on offense or defense with Burton in there over that stretch. I don't think we could have been much better than we were on offense (12 points in 6 possessions) and I don't think Burton would have made the difference on defense (where admittedly, the guys that are supposed to excel were simply poor).

Bottom line, the offense was really good in that stretch. No offensive player was going to make that much better. The defense lost us this game. And for me that falls mostly on Derrick, Jake, and Juan, who were the guys rotating on Christon and either allowing him to get by or sending him to the line.

[Nukem2]

No need to get all worked up, Jim. Your argument of "the end result certainly couldn't have been worse if Deonte was in there" is where you commit a logical fallacy. The only reason you can say that is because you know the end result. But with 7:00 left in the game, no one knew what the end result would be whether Burton played or not.

But what I'm more interested in is how Marquette would have been more efficient on offense or defense with Burton in there over that stretch. I don't think we could have been much better than we were on offense (12 points in 6 possessions) and I don't think Burton would have made the difference on defense (where admittedly, the guys that are supposed to excel were simply poor).

Bottom line, the offense was really good in that stretch. No offensive player was going to make that much better. The defense lost us this game. And for me that falls mostly on Derrick, Jake, and Juan, who were the guys rotating on Christon and either allowing him to get by or sending him to the line.

What you say has been the case in most of MU's 15 losses. Perhaps it's time to change up the modus operandi as MU has failed its test 14 times previously.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

What you say has been the case in most of MU's 15 losses. Perhaps it's time to change up the modus operandi as MU has failed its test 14 times previously.

I disagree. Both ends have been a problem. Ohio State, SDSU, Bucky, New Mexico, @ Creighton, @ Butler, just a few where the defense was fine but the offense didn't do enough. We would frequently go without a basket for 2-3 minute stretches in close games at the end.

This team had problems on both ends of the floor. Last night, especially down the stretch, the offense was not the problem. The defense was.

[Nukem2]

I disagree. Both ends have been a problem. Ohio State, SDSU, Bucky, New Mexico, @ Creighton, @ Butler, just a few where the defense was fine but the offense didn't do enough. We would frequently go without a basket for 2-3 minute stretches in close games at the end.

This team had problems on both ends of the floor. Last night, especially down the stretch, the offense was not the problem. The defense was.

The defense was an issue in each of the games mentioned. Opposing guards were not well defended in any of those games going down the stretch with the exception of the SDSU game where their frontcourt took over. Though you are right that there have been problems on both ends. Pomeroy efficiency numbers for both are on the very low end for the Buzz era.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I think it's really pretty simple...

• Derrick wasn't ready for full time minutes at the point, but no one was competent enough to significantly spell him.
• Jake and Todd were both inconsistent as wing guards, and neither truly excelled on both ends of the court.
• Jamil was maddeningly inconsistent as the swing 3/4 and never stepped up as you'd expect a senior to, while Juan, Deonte, and Jajuan were at best average contributors on one end of the court and abysmal on the other while Steve was marginal on both ends.
• Our two-headed monster at center had the same problem, good on one end and bad on the other.

.
Quite simply, this team didn't come through like we've been accustomed to in recent years. All that said, I think this team really illustrates what Buzz has been saying for years about Marquette's small margin for error. If we close out Butler, Villanova, St. John's, and Providence, we are alone in 3rd place in the league. If we finish the SDSU, UNM, or ASU games differently, all of which were either tied or within a basket with under 5:00 to play, we have an impressive non-con resume. And if we finish Xavier differently, we are still playing today, with a 25-7 record.

Small margins for error. This year it bit us in the ass.

[Nukem2]

Certainly did bite us there. Vander would have helped that quite a bit. But, no use crying over spilt milk. Too bad Buzz could not anticipate that loss sooner. Jake and Derrick simply are not compatible as starting guards. Just what it is.

[CaribouJim]

No need to get all worked up, Jim. Your argument of "the end result certainly couldn't have been worse if Deonte was in there" is where you commit a logical fallacy. The only reason you can say that is because you know the end result. But with 7:00 left in the game, no one knew what the end result would be whether Burton played or not.

But what I'm more interested in is how Marquette would have been more efficient on offense or defense with Burton in there over that stretch. I don't think we could have been much better than we were on offense (12 points in 6 possessions) and I don't think Burton would have made the difference on defense (where admittedly, the guys that are supposed to excel were simply poor).

Bottom line, the offense was really good in that stretch. No offensive player was going to make that much better. The defense lost us this game. And for me that falls mostly on Derrick, Jake, and Juan, who were the guys rotating on Christon and either allowing him to get by or sending him to the line.

My head hurts - I concede - if Deonte played in those last 7-8 minutes like I would have preferred, MU would have lost by at least a 100 points and if Buzz even had the thought of putting him in for even one mili-second he should have been fired.

Have a nice evening!!!