Butler Thoughts

[mufan2003]

Lazar Hayward was 2nd team All-Big East and Jimmy Butler was honorable mention. There were no other MU players on the three 2010 All-Big East teams. So 3 or 4 future NBA players is a little misleading. Jimmy Butler was good, solid as a junior.

An additional obstacle the 2010 team faced was if a player got into foul trouble or missed a game or two because of a minor injury....it became as if Buzz had no reserves to use. That team simply could not foul, which gets back to how amazing it was they went 11-7 with such a thin margin for error. This MU team goes at least 10 deep. The 2010 team was a tremendous 3-point shooting team, but basketball is more than 3-point shots. Too many teams live and die by the 3. Interior scoring, rebounding and defense should typically be attributes that are sustainable more often than not game in and game out.

[TheSultan]

This MU team goes ten deep?

We just came off a game where our bench scored 4 points...all in overtime. MU's bench is spotty at best. Mayo is inconsistent...Burton plays like a freshman.

[kneelb4zerg]

Our defense wasn't very good that season (this years is pretty good) but any legitimate comparison between the two likely begins and ends with our woeful offensive efficiency sitting at around the 150 mark. If it hasn't improved by now, when will it improve?

[Markedman]

That was the deepest the league had ever been top to bottom....11 teams made the tourny.

Watching that team play compared to this one I see no comparison.....that team was better and it isn't close..IMO

Butler was better then any player on this team and it isn't close...DJO was better then any guard we have this year and it isn't close. Acker was not nearly the defender Derrick is but offensively he was very good that year. Never turned it over(the whole team rarely did) and hit the 3 at close to 50%....Coobie hit over 40% from 3 that year as well....

That was one of my favorite teams to watch in the last 20 years......moved the ball and played fundamentally sound solid basketball....can anyone really say this team is fun to watch?

I'd take living and dying by a great 3 point shooting team then what we have this year. I swear sometimes I don't think people watch the games. Our offensse this year is horrible.....check out the pomeroy stats...check out any stats.....is this years team better defensively? Yes....but no defense is good enough to make up for an offense this bad....that team played 21 games against top 100 teams.....21! They ended up 10-11 in those games....9 of those games were against top 25 teams... they won 3 of them...they also lost at the buzzer 3 times to top 16 teams.

Our record this year is 2-8 vs the top 100...

Lazar Hayward was 2nd team All-Big East and Jimmy Butler was honorable mention. There were no other MU players on the three 2010 All-Big East teams. So 3 or 4 future NBA players is a little misleading. Jimmy Butler was good, solid as a junior.

An additional obstacle the 2010 team faced was if a player got into foul trouble or missed a game or two because of a minor injury....it became as if Buzz had no reserves to use. That team simply could not foul, which gets back to how amazing it was they went 11-7 with such a thin margin for error. This MU team goes at least 10 deep. The 2010 team was a tremendous 3-point shooting team, but basketball is more than 3-point shots. Too many teams live and die by the 3. Interior scoring, rebounding and defense should typically be attributes that are sustainable more often than not game in and game out.

[mufan2003]

I think u are losing focus on the debate. It is not whether this team is great or not, it is whether they are dead or not sitting at 2-3 in conference. 2010 was used as a comparison to a team that started off 2-5 in conference. We will have to agree to disagree on Butler's greatness as a Junior.

Multiple analysts have noted this team is not playing with the typical toughness and attention to detail of Buzz Williams coached teams. Last year's MU team could not shoot either, and we won the Big East and went to the Elite 8. It was the toughness, defense, rebounding, attention to detail which allowed us to win last year.

[mufan2003]

"Butler was better as a junior than anyone on this team and it is not close?"

Wow. Maybe Butler as a senior, not as a junior. Buzz is on record saying Jamil may be the best all-around player he has had during his tenure. I disagree, but Jamil certainly, skill-wise, is every bit as talented as Jimmy was as a junior. Jamie has at least 13 more games to show it.

I agree on the shortcomings of Derrick Wilson, every MU fan can see that. That 2010 faced such a daunting task because (1) they only went 6 -7 guys deep and (2) were extremely undersized at every position. PG-5'8" , SG-6'0" , SF-6'2" , PF-6'7" , C-6'6". That type of lineup is an uphill battle.

[Markedman]

No it wasn't...Our defense this year is actually slightly better then it was last year....We were better last year because Vander, Junior, and Lockett were much better all around players then the guys who are playing now. We didn't shoot the 3 well but we got to the line and had a better shooting percentage because Junior and Vander could get into the lane and score, get fouled or dish it to a teammate for a layup or open look.. Junior made huge plays to beat UW and UCONN......Vander made huge play after huge play to beat St Johns, Davidson and Butler..Who has made the huge plays this year?...I love toughness as much as the next guy....Jae Crowder was one tough SOB.....but he was great becasue he was skilled AND tough...not just tough.

Was last years team tougher? I'm sure it was...but you can be tough as nails and still lose if you don't have the talent to make plays.....

OK...I think we have both had our say....I'll give you the last word if you want it.....

I think u are losing focus on the debate. It is not whether this team is great or not, it is whether they are dead or not sitting at 2-3 in conference. 2010 was used as a comparison to a team that started off 2-5 in conference. We will have to agree to disagree on Butler's greatness as a Junior.

Multiple analysts have noted this team is not playing with the typical toughness and attention to detail of Buzz Williams coached teams. Last year's MU team could not shoot either, and we won the Big East and went to the Elite 8. It was the toughness, defense, rebounding, attention to detail which allowed us to win last year.

[Markedman]

Buzz says somebody is the most talented guy he has ever coached every year....come on.

Buzz said most talented not that he was the best......do you really think Buzz would say Jamil Wilson is better then Jae or Jimmy? Seriously? Wes? McNeal?

Buzz was pumping Jamil up because he needs him to be great......So far it is clear he hasn't been.....

Compare Jimmy's junior stats to Jamil's this season......it's not even close.....and Jimmy played a tougher schedule

"Butler was better as a junior than anyone on this team and it is not close?"

Wow. Maybe Butler as a senior, not as a junior. Buzz is on record saying Jamil may be the best all-around player he has had during his tenure. I disagree, but Jamil certainly, skill-wise, is every bit as talented as Jimmy was as a junior. Jamie has at least 13 more games to show it.

I agree on the shortcomings of Derrick Wilson, every MU fan can see that. That 2010 faced such a daunting task because (1) they only went 6 -7 guys deep and (2) were extremely undersized at every position. PG-5'8" , SG-6'0" , SF-6'2" , PF-6'7" , C-6'6". That type of lineup is an uphill battle.

[mufan2003]

Good points Markedman. Maybe MU loses all their remaining games. This team has its shortcomings. I remember feeling the same in 2010 when we started 2-5, Maymon had transferred, we had a "midget" backcourt as Buzz liked to say and no depth.

I just remember how much March Madness sucks when MU is not a part of it. Have to go back to 2005 the last time that happened. Trying to stay optimistic. I am done

[Markedman]

I think we can all agree on this......

Good points Markedman. Maybe MU loses all their remaining games. This team has its shortcomings. I remember feeling the same in 2010 when we started 2-5, Maymon had transferred, we had a "midget" backcourt as Buzz liked to say and no depth.

I just remember how much March Madness sucks when MU is not a part of it. Have to go back to 2005 the last time that happened. Trying to stay optimistic. I am done