Handicapping odds of who gets added:

[lmdramos]

i know you guys are saying quality over market when comparing Creighton to Dayton but I don't understand what you mean by a bigger market. Omaha has 878,000 people in its metro area with 1.2 Million with in a 50 mile radius. Dayton has 841,000 people in the metro area and you can't count Cincinnati since that belongs to Xavier.

[TheSultan]

And I'm sure they would be happy if they weren't the only one.

Really? Is it that big of a deal? They played for years in the MCC/Horizon as the only non-religious, private school.

[2013UnleashTheBeast]

i know you guys are saying quality over market when comparing Creighton to Dayton but I don't understand what you mean by a bigger market. Omaha has 878,000 people in its metro area with 1.2 Million with in a 50 mile radius. Dayton has 841,000 people in the metro area and you can't count Cincinnati since that belongs to Xavier.

With Creighton, you get the whole state of Nebraska, not just Omaha. No one in that state gives even the tiniest sh!t about Nebraska basketball. They're all Husker football fans & Creighton hoops fans. Ohio is Ohio State, Cincinnati, Xavier fandom, then a huge step down to Dayton following. I'm sure you knew that though, and are just in a state of massive denial at this point.

As to the point of bringing Dayton to appease Xavier for the rivalry aspect, that is handled easily: play them every year in the non-con, exactly as they do with Cincinnati. Problem solved. They get to keep the rivalry while adding a clear step up in conference over Dayton for recruiting purposes.

[lmdramos]

thanks for clarifying...cause I really didn't understand why they were saying dayton has the better market when they don't. FYI just to be clear I am not a Dayton fan...Im a Creighton fan. It kinda sounda like you though I was a Dayton fan

[ValiantSailor]

Really? Is it that big of a deal? They played for years in the MCC/Horizon as the only non-religious, private school.

And was the MCC/Horizon a high-major conference?

If you want a sure road to mid-major status, just band all the Catholic schools together, making sure that religion is the prime unifying factor. You could even have conferences with Jesuit versus non-Jesuit schools. Wouldn't that be fun?

Or you could establish a conference based on basketball! What a radical concept. Of course, that might include secular schools. What to do....

VS

[TheSultan]

And was the MCC/Horizon a high-major conference?

If you want a sure road to mid-major status, just band all the Catholic schools together, making sure that religion is the prime unifying factor. You could even have conferences with Jesuit versus non-Jesuit schools. Wouldn't that be fun?

Or you could establish a conference based on basketball! What a radical concept. Of course, that might include secular schools. What to do....

VS

I don't disagree with you at all....but you did help clarify Goose's point so thank you.

[2013UnleashTheBeast]

thanks for clarifying...cause I really didn't understand why they were saying dayton has the better market when they don't. FYI just to be clear I am not a Dayton fan...Im a Creighton fan. It kinda sounda like you though I was a Dayton fan

I did and I apologize! Read too fast! We're on the same side, I would love to add you guys, for sure over Dayton.

[UDDoug]

i know you guys are saying quality over market when comparing Creighton to Dayton but I don't understand what you mean by a bigger market. Omaha has 878,000 people in its metro area with 1.2 Million with in a 50 mile radius. Dayton has 841,000 people in the metro area and you can't count Cincinnati since that belongs to Xavier.

I was just going by a Nielson market size list I found.

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/c...enetration.pdf

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I was just going by a Nielson market size list I found.

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/c...enetration.pdf

The Nielsen ratings don't measure population, they measure households. So if you have larger households and more families in Omaha compared to more single-person households in Dayton, it would follow that they have a larger television market even with a smaller population size. Perhaps having UD, Wright State, and Wright-Pat all in that area contributes to that.

But as mentioned, Creighton gives more than just Omaha. Anyone in the state of Nebraska watching the "local" team is watching Creighton. That's not the case in Ohio by any means.

[UDDoug]

Would you mind making the case for Dayton? So far, I don't really see what they add. The First Four is nice, but I'd much rather a team playing in the tourney and adding tourney shares than one that's simply mentioned for the tournament's least-watched games.

I'll try to answer your questions. I don't count the First Four as a plus. I consider it something the school does for the community to bring in outside dollars I'm probably in the minority about that, I suppose. It may be good to have the new conference logo on TV, maybe?

We will already have an Ohio presence with Xavier, I get what you're saying about the Dayton market, but does anyone other than Ohio State really truly give anyone any Ohio markets?

Ohio State basketball is a funny thing... The Cinci region plays to a mix of UC, UK, OSU, and X. There are many fans of all those basketball programs who are rabid OSU football fans, this is why UC is in their current predicament. Dayton plays very strongly to UD and would not swing to X. If UD closed its doors it may swing strongly to OSU but would probably fracture to UC, UK and OSU.

Creighton at least expands the footprint, not only from a television perspective but also recruiting-wise. Any recruit that can go to Dayton can just as easily go to Cincinnati.

Yes, but there's more recruits to go around in this region. Dayton has generally performed well in recruiting talent development was a serious issue under BG.

What has Dayton done to improve their program recently? Archie Miller seems like a good hire, is he likely to stick around? How new are the practice facilities and workout areas? How has recruiting been going? Is this a team ready to make a trip to the NCAAs this year?

Well they just lost to Ill. State at home so I'm pretty pumped about that... Training facilities at the stadium are from just before 2000. New basketball offices and practice facility were completed just a year ago I think. The arena is older but in decent shape, school owned. I like Archie because he has recruited fairly well and players who were stagnant under BG (a good recruited but poor talent developer IMO) showed significant development under Archie last year. Unfortunately BG ran off half of the current Junior class before he left, and his recruits followed suit so Archie is dealing with depth issues especially at PG/SG. I don't think they will make the tourney because of the depth issues. UD can keep a coach as long as any school of similar size with no massive football cash treasure chest, revenues are strong and they are not afraid to commit to multi-year deals. They committed to BG at a nice salary and for many years but things began to sour here (even we get sick of NIT appearances) he read the writing on the wall and UD was willing to let him walk. If Archie proves out then they will raise/extend him. There are very few college jobs where coaches don't leave for the money. Butler is very lucky.

UD men's BB does have very, very solid revenues. From a 'Nova site: can-we-afford-this
(UD is not included in the table but the dollars are referred to in the text. For reference the numbers are given in an editors note at the end.)

A big part of this is owning a med-large basketball arena but the school is able to sell games to local broadcast channels such as Fox Sports Ohio, local broadcast etc. These are potential revenue streams which a new conference could use to sell the games a national network doesn't pick up. All but three games will be televised which is a nice ratio.

I really don't mean this as an attack, I just want to know what it is Dayton brings that other schools like Creighton (with better attendance and a bigger footprint) or SLU (with brand new facilities, a better market, and a bigger footprint) can't bring.

UD's financial base and general commitment/foundation are extremely solid. Unfortunately, the men's team is inconsistent and will regularly win games against BCS-conference schools but play down to inferior opponents. There is nothing structurally wrong with the UD program, it is extremely healthy, we just need to get the ball rolling on the court.

I'm not here to rip on Creighton, I'm impressed with the Creighton program and wouldn't be at all upset if they were chosen over UD, it makes sense from a basketball standpoint. SLU's entire argument is based on potential television market size.