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Thread: National anthem

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Goose85 View Post
    Maybe 65% to 70% of southern white males are, but all Americans, not the polls I've seen.
    Bottom line, if Trump didn't call Kappernick and others SOBs, while not showing similar disdain for the KKK, white nationalists, etc I don't think this thing blows up the way it did. I think most would prefer politics stay out of sports, but with the Pres now tweeting about this daily, football and politics are now intertwined and I don't see that changing soon. My guess is most would prefer the ramping up of the rhetoric on this topic would stop, but it is big news now.
    See page 10 of the Remington Research Group survey:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzW...dsXzZ0bGM/view


    Do you think NFL players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem?

    Female: Yes-61%, No-24%, Unsure-15%
    Male: Yes-68%, No-24%, Unsure-8%

    White: Yes-67%, No-23%, Unsure-10%
    African-American: Yes-48%, No-33%, Unsure-20%
    Hispanic: Yes-70%, No-22%, Unsure-8%
    Other: Yes-62%, No-23%, Unsure-15%

    18-29: Yes-70%, No-21%, Unsure-9%
    30-39: Yes-70%, No-18%, Unsure-12%
    40-49: Yes-59%, No-29%, Unsure-12%
    50-69: Yes-61%, No-27%, Unsure-12%
    70+: Yes-67%, No-21%, Unsure-12%

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MU/Panther View Post
    Government doesn't pay the players. You lost me.

    Anyways, you made your point. You are cool with players taking a knee. Fine.
    The Department of Defense and National Guard has paid teams to have the players on the field as a recruiting tool.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...-soldiers/amp/

    And is it safe to say that since you refused to answer, you are not okay with forced abridgement of First Amendment protections in the workplace like freedom of religion?
    Last edited by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"; 09-28-2017 at 03:12 PM.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by MUFAN2003 View Post
    See page 10 of the Remington Research Group survey:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzW...dsXzZ0bGM/view


    Do you think NFL players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem?

    Female: Yes-61%, No-24%, Unsure-15%
    Male: Yes-68%, No-24%, Unsure-8%

    White: Yes-67%, No-23%, Unsure-10%
    African-American: Yes-48%, No-33%, Unsure-20%
    Hispanic: Yes-70%, No-22%, Unsure-8%
    Other: Yes-62%, No-23%, Unsure-15%

    18-29: Yes-70%, No-21%, Unsure-9%
    30-39: Yes-70%, No-18%, Unsure-12%
    40-49: Yes-59%, No-29%, Unsure-12%
    50-69: Yes-61%, No-27%, Unsure-12%
    70+: Yes-67%, No-21%, Unsure-12%
    That's inherently confusing. It implies taking a knee is disrespectful, which it is not. Standing is fine. Kneeling is fine. That poll is designed to get a specific answer by tying standing to respect.

  4. #54
    Unreal you don't think it's disrespectful.
    March Madness starts in November

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77" View Post
    The issue here is not black-on-black crime, it's racial injustice and police abuses of power. Racial injustice is real. Police abuses of power are real. These are real problems that need to be corrected in our society. Black-on-black crime is also a problem, but that does not lessen the blatant reality of other problems. Just because you have two or more problems doesn't justify sticking your head in the sand because the one you like to talk about hasn't been fixed yet.
    In 2016:

    Native Americans were twice as likely to be killed by police as Blacks.

    Whites were twice as likely to be killed by police as Asian-Americans.

    If this was simply about racial injustice against Blacks, the first statement would not be true. If this was simply about racial injustice to those not White, the second statement would not be true.

    Look, everyone, and I mean everyone, is racist to one degree or another. We all are suspicious of things that are different. But, I am not so sure that race alone is the driving force behind the alleged abuses of police power or even a major factor. If this was entirely race driven, you would expect cities with similar racial makeups to be similar numbers of police shootings. But, you don't. Columbus and Oakland have the exact same percentage of Black residents, but a Black person is 3 times more likely to be killed by police in Oakland than Columbus. A Black is way more likely to get shot in Nashville than Raleigh. Why? Are Nashville and Oakland cops more racist than Columbus and Raleigh? Nor is crime the reason for blacks being shot. Buffalo has more violent crime and a slightly higher percentage of Black residents, but had no Police killings between 2012 and 2015, while Orlando, a city of the same size, less violent crime and slightly less Black residents, had 15 killings by Police.

    Further, these stats leave out a couple of very important bits of information. First, how many Black cops kill Black criminals? Clearly, if Black cops are killing Blacks at a much higher rate than white cops do (and there is some research that suggests this is true), the suggestion that the higher rate of killing Blacks is a result of racism somewhat falls apart. In fact, if true, you may argue the opposite, that non-Black cops may be overly reluctant to shoot Black criminals. In addition, it would be interesting to know how many cops are killed by Black criminals versus non-black criminals. If Blacks kill cops at a much higher rate than other criminals, it would suggest a motive (not an excuse) for why more Blacks appear to be targeted by the police. Unfortunately, these types of stats don't exist or are unreliable.

    My sole point is that instead of screaming that the police are racist who abuse power, we as a society need to come together and figure out the precise reasons why these shootings are occurring. Some may be attributable to race. But, are economic factors playing a role? Do different factors such as the type of police training, the makeup of the police force, or the demographics, such as age, play a factor? Are they the major factors? Only when we understand the full extent of the problem can the problem be fixed.

    Finally, in 2016 it has been reported that 266 Blacks died in police shootings or roughly .00066% of the Black population in the US. So, you have a much, much better chance (about 10 times better) of being struck by lightening in your lifetime than a Black American has of being killed by the Police. I am not saying this issue isn't a problem, it is. Every life is precious. But, more Black Americans died in shootings in Chicago in the first half of 2017. We need to put this problem into context.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by MU/Panther View Post
    Unreal you don't think it's disrespectful.
    Not as unreal as your belief that exercising the rights our military & protective services are sworn to defend is disrespectful. I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and I'm honored when people exercise the rights I'm sworn to protect, even when I disagree.

    Also, you are wildly wrong about one thing. I don't think anyone should kneel, because we should live in a country where everyone feels fairly treated so they don't need to.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77" View Post
    That's inherently confusing. It implies taking a knee is disrespectful, which it is not. Standing is fine. Kneeling is fine. That poll is designed to get a specific answer by tying standing to respect.
    No it isn't. You think kneeling is just fine for the national anthem. You are certainly entitled to have that opinion, but it isn't confusing. IIRC, at most sporting events, an individual comes on over the PA and says "at this time we'd ask that you please remove your caps and stand for our national anthem." Kneeling is a direct rejection in honoring that request.

  8. #58
    "Not as unreal as your belief that exercising the rights our military & protective services are sworn to defend is disrespectful"

    Not sure where I said that.
    March Madness starts in November

  9. #59
    MU88 -- There's definitely more to it. Do some cities have better training? Better background checks to determine mental fitness for the job? Better educated citizens who are proactive in compliance with police? More minorities involved in the management side of the hiring process? There's always more to it, but anyone that thinks blacks are treated equally in our society is at best grossly delusional. Jim Crow laws tilted the balance against blacks and repealing laws does not undo generations of injustice.

    It's a deeply complex and at the moment, seemingly insurmountable issue. But at least we're starting to talk about it, which is a huge step in the right direction.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by MUFAN2003 View Post
    No it isn't. You think kneeling is just fine for the national anthem.
    The question is worded to slant the responder to the idea that the players are being disrespectful. That's inherently confusing.

    And I suggest you reread my posts if you think I'm "just fine" with kneeling. I would prefer everyone stand, but I abhor the notion that everyone be forced to stand. That is just anti-American to the core.

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