Top 15 Players in the Big East

[Phantom Warrior]

I have now watched each of the teams in the conference at least twice, and some I have watched three or four times. I have also been following each team's games on line, including summaries and box scores.

Based on what I've seen and read, here are what I view as the top 15 players in the conference, along with their stats through Friday. I'm not ranking the 15, just going alphabetically by school and then by player.

Kelan Martin (Butler) 17.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 42% from the field, 80% from the line, 35% on treys;

Marcus Foster (Creighton) 17.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg, 51% from the field, 66% from the line, 40% on treys;

Khyri Thomas (Creighton) 13.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.5 apg, 60% from the field, 79% from the line, 53% on treys;

Mo Watson (Creighton) 13.1 ppg, 9.1 apg, 47% from the field, 71% from the line, 56% on treys;

Eli Cain (DePaul) 20.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 50% from the field, 70% from the line, 41% on treys;

L. J. Peak (Georgetown) 16.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.3 apg, 50% from the field, 83% from the line, 38% on treys;

Rodney Pryor (Georgetown) 20.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 58% from the field, 83% from the line, 53% on treys;

Rodney Bullock (Providence) 21.3 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 50% from the field, 80% from the line, 40% on treys;

Khadeen Carrington (Seton Hall) 20.1 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.4 apg, 51% from the field, 61% from the line, 52% on treys;

Angel Delgado (Seton Hall) 13.5 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 57% from the field, 45% from the line;

Marcus LoVett (St. John's) 18.8 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.9 apg, 47% from the field, 79% from the line, 44% on treys;

Shamorie Ponds (St. John's) 17.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 3.4 apg, 48% from the field, 89% from the line, 45% on treys;

Josh Hart (Villanova) 20.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 57% from the field, 80% from the line, 45% on treys;

Trevon Blueitt (Xavier) 19.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 2.3 apg, 43% from the field, 83% from the line, 35% on treys;

Edmond Sumner (Xavier)14.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.3 apg, 45% from the field, 71% from the line, 23% on treys.

There are others that certainly deserve consideration, players like Kris Jenkins and Jalen Brunson of Nova, J.P. Macura of Creighton, Kyron Cartwright of Providence, Desi Rodriguez of Seton Hall; I think both JJ and Luke would and should get some consideration, but I don't think either of them, at least to this point, is among the top 15 players in the league.

Remember, there are only 50 starters in the conference, and the number who have actually been regular starters and garnered starters' minutes is probably closer to 45 than 50.

Obviously stats will change with every game; they already changed after today's (Saturday's) games. And some players will improve once conference play begins; others will falter.

But at least from where I sit, I don't see MU has having any of the top 15 (top 30%) players in the conference, definitely none among the top 10 (top 20%), which pretty much explains where we as a team stand this year.

Bring on the slings and arrows. I'm ready for them.

[Mark Miller]

The two kids from St. John's and Cain from DePaul score for bad teams. They are individually talented, no doubt, but Jenkins, Brunson and Fischer are more worthy of your Top 15, IMO.

[Phantom Warrior]

Mark,

I realize that they have put up nice scoring numbers for poor teams, but I also looked at more than just their ppg. Cain is also grabbing 5 rpg, and both LoVett and Ponds are grabbing their fair share of rebounds and also getting assists. But just as important are their shooting percentage, both overall field goal percentage and three-point percentage.

Cain is shooting 50% overall from the field and 41% from behind the arc, and both LoVett and and Ponds are just under 50% overall and going even better from behind the arc (44% and 45%). In other words, all three of them are efficient scorers who also contribute in other ways.

That being said, Brunson and Jenkins would almost certainly have much better individual stats if they played for St. John's or DePaul, and LoVett's and Ponds's stats would almost certainly be less impressive if they played for Nova.

As far as Luke, I can certainly see why someone would include him, but I would like to see him be a better rebounder, and I really wish he had diversified his offensive game a bit more than he has the past three years. At 6'11" I just think he should be more dominant than he is.

Then again, I remember something Rick Majerus said after he recruited Dwayne Johnson from St. John's Military Academy but passed on his high school teammate Ronnie Williams, who went on to have a terrific career at Florida. Rick said something along the lines of, "I guess I've seen him (Williams) play so many times, that I started focusing on the flaws in his game more than the strengths." Maybe that's what I'm doing with Luke (and JJ for that matter).

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

First, guys I can't see being here:
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• Kelan Martin Usage rate is too high for his efficiency. I'd put him at third on his own team. From the field, has only scored 163 points on 155 shots.
• Eli Cain Has racked up big numbers against awful competition. Was bad against the only two marginally decent teams (Northwestern, Temple) that DePaul has faced. Getting numbers on an awful team isn't impressive, especially when you play awful competition.
• Marcus LoVett Definitely not. 43.1 eFG% against their four toughest opponents (Minnesota, Michigan, VCU, ODU), 76.7 eFG% against their four worst. He has put up decent numbers against terrible teams and terrible numbers against decent teams. Not top-15, probably not even top-30 when you consider what he's done against different levels of competition.
• Shamorie Ponds He at least showed up against the higher level competition, but he just isn't there yet.
• Edmond Sumner He's taken a huge step back from last year. Way too many turnovers, way too low eFG% to be considered.

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Who I would replace them with:
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• Luke Fischer We see too much of him to be objective, and see more of what he isn't than what he is. That Majerus quote is perfect. What he is is top-20 in the country in 2PFG% and top-10 in eFG%. He's improved his rebounding and is one of the best bigs in the conference, despite his deficiencies.
• Justin Patton Best freshman in the conference. Defensively he blocks shots, gobbles up boards, and has quick enough hands to get steals, all without fouling too much. Offensively, he's even better than Luke in terms of eFG% and 2PFG%. Minutes have been up and down, but he hasn't had a bad game yet.
• Andrew Chrabascz One of those guys that does everything right. Shoots the three, can score at every level, provides for his teammates, and rarely turns it over. As Mulligan said, he would be perfect on this Marquette team.
• Tyler Lewis This is where using old stats like PPG get you in trouble. Only scores 8.5 ppg, but is excellent both inside and outside the arc and provides a ton for his teammates. Martin gets the headlines, but Lewis has been the better player.
• Jalen Brunson Can't have a top-15 list with only one 'Nova player. Brunson is consistently good no matter the competition. Efficient beyond the arc, solid assist rate with low turnover rate for a primary ballhandler, always puts up a nice line. His comparables this season reads like a who's who of college PGs; Jordan Taylor, Joel Berry, Jimmer Fredette, Brandon Triche, Donald Sloan.

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Now I'll be the first to admit I am becoming less and less enamored with old school stats. PPG doesn't mean that much to me. Average players can put up plenty of points if they shoot it enough. APG and RPG are okay, but less important to me than assist rate and rebounding percentages, again because increased minutes for marginal players can overinflate those stats. FG% is virtually meaningless, while eFG% is the most important single statistic to measure a player and team. I'll spend a lot more time on sites like kenpom.com than looking at basic stats.

Usage rate is one that I'm looking at more and more. I recognize that higher usage will almost always drag your overall efficiency down, but after watching Henry early in the year last season, all I could think was that he needed to defer more if he couldn't be more efficient. That's how I feel about Martin this year (though to a lesser extent). Reinhardt is also terrible in that regard. If you aren't hitting shots, you need to start passing the rock, not trying to score more (even though that can artificially inflate PPG stats).

As far as the bubble, guys I'd have very close to that top-15 are Rodney Bullock, Sam Hauser, Jajuan Johnson, Kris Jenkins, Mikal Bridges, JP Macura, and Emmitt Holt.

[warriorfan4life]

Agree with most of what you wrote Brew, but got to disagree on Tyler Lewis. He's an awesome floor general on offense, but no top 15 player can be such a defensive liability that he has to be subbed out late in games.

[Nukem2]

Agree with most of what you wrote Brew, but got to disagree on Tyler Lewis. He's an awesome floor general on offense, but no top 15 player can be such a defensive liability that he has to be subbed out late in games.

Davante Gardner in 13-14 when he was 2nd team All BE..... Buzz routinely subbed him out for Otule.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Agree with most of what you wrote Brew, but got to disagree on Tyler Lewis. He's an awesome floor general on offense, but no top 15 player can be such a defensive liability that he has to be subbed out late in games.

That's fair, I just love his offensive feel. That old school, pass first point guard. On offense, he's what I hoped Traci could have become for us.