...*sigh*
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My comments from a thread on this subject in the premium board. I stand by this even more now than before.
I was answering the question: would firing Braun now be worse for the program?
It may, or it may not. It depends on the reasons given for letting her go. There are things that can come up that would make a move like that look good for the university and actually end up as a positive. I am not necessarily suggesting those things actually exist right now, just that there are those things in life and the working world.
Remember she is not Mone's hire in the end, and there was a period of time before he was even at Milwaukee that AB was still running things. Who knows what he could use in that period to justify a move? The "it has only now come to my attention" card without even being the least bit colorful with the truth. If the players and others keep up the pressure, his hand may be forced in this, too.
There are some other actions being taken quietly that I know of that may also open entirely new cans of worms where AB is concerned.
Even if she is not let go, it appears to me at least that she is not "in charge" anymore, either.
This is probably the most pivotal and critical hire of her entire career. She started a full on dumpster fire with the move to fire RJ when she did and the way she did. The successor was her first major hire as an AD, and will be used as the measuring stick of her abilities as an AD.
And she wasn't allowed to make it.
If I were her, I would be very nervous about my position right now, and would already be looking for other opportunities.
One other thing. I think Vall was very sincere about "doing the right thing" and "doing it the right way", which may put him in the odd position of opposing the woman that people think just hired him. I feel bad for him if that becomes the case.
Now that people are beginning to see the depth of conspiracy and incompetence involved here, how can the principal players be retained?
"Botched." Well, yeah, but by whom?
If Amanda Braun fired Rob Jeter with the intention of hiring TJ Otzelberger as his replacement, things didn't go as planned, to say the least. You'll recall that there was immediate speculation on the eunuch board that Braun had already contacted him. At least one account had his hiring as a foregone conclusion. Now it sounds like he was offered the job, only to have the offer retracted, and the job offered to LaVall Jordan, who wasn't mentioned among the early speculations that i heard.
If that's what happened, i wonder if she appeciates the irony of having a higher-up not supporting her. Or should i call it "poetic justice?"
Scared of lawsuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanrocks
I hope that this doesn't come across as snarky in any way, but aren't they also fearful of a wrongful termination suit from Rob Jeter?Quote:
Originally Posted by MU/Panther
If you get rid of Amanda Braun, yes, the question has to come up in why was Jeter fired then. I would also say a bit less since they hired an african american as the next coach if the race card was in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanrocks
This is just more fuel in the already very large Dumpster Fire on Downer. (TM)
Here is what I think is going on (sorry so long):
Mone was disconnected and really couldn't have cared less about Athletics at all from his hiring to March 17th, 2016. He was far more concerned about his Ivory Tower identity and the accolades that got him at cocktail parties filled with former and current anti-jock types.
March 17, 2016 - Braun fires Jeter using a plan that Mone signed off on without really checking any details, taking her at her word that the donors and alumni were totally on board with said plan to fund the termination with (in some cases previously submitted) donations.
March 18, 2016 - Ignition of Dumpster Fire on Downer. Prominent boosters and alums go bat sh*t crazy over the firing and the use of their money to fund it without any disclosure. This is the culmination of a strained relationship between Braun and almost everybody. Said boosters had a low opinion of her prior to this moment, and are now at the point of no return (literally). They realize that they have been deceived by Braun for a long time, and are furious over being lied to.
Players and parents come forward with more tails of lies told to them by Braun. They are furious with being lied to in order to cover the upcoming firing of Jeter. Specifically, the cover story that was concocted about why they will not play in any post season tournaments and metrics are created out of thin air related to expectations (Top 100 / Top 3). Reality is there never was any such articulated set of goals, and this is merely the cover Braun needs. She cannot fire a coach who is currently in, or about to be in, a Post Season Tournament. So she lies....again.
Then Braun lies some more to the media about said interaction with the players and parents. Lies by denying lying. Lies are documented in writing to parents and now in media reports.
Many fans, donors, and members of the media are now made aware of actions taken by Braun over 3 years to actively hamstring Jeter in preparation of firing him, a move planned from the very first day of Braun's tenure. She made every effort to impair Jeter's ability to perform to justify said firing. It also becomes very clear that TJ is the heir apparent and has been for some time now. Braun has been in discussions with him since well before the decision to fire. Lena Taylor makes a serious public issue of that, the lack of diversity, and the lies of the administration.
Braun lies again to all 3 regarding these events. Players are further furious over these lies as they lived the truth.
Braun advocates, surrogates and possibly employees begin a defense campaign on Eunich Board culminating in the shut down of the site for almost 3 days and the locking of any threads discussing these events and Braun's actions.
Coaching Search begins: Mone now realizes HE was lied to (about payoff plan and support for it). Sets up "search committee" and does not allow Braun to run it. Hires search firm to further cut out any influence Braun has in the process. Braun is allowed to conduct interviews in Houston, but these are pro-forma for Braun as TJ will be the coach. Braun still believes she will make this hire. The interviews are also pro-forma for Mone. HE will not allow Braun to make this hire, but has not told her that at all. He interviews all candidate finalists in Milwaukee himself.
TJ is offered the job by Braun, told to bring his family to Milwaukee and an announcement is set up. Mone informs Braun she is NOT making the decision at all, and that he is hiring LJ. LJ is given an official offer by Mone and hired. Braun is instructed to support this hire and fall in line. Braun reluctantly does so and appears to the public to have made this hire, when in fact she had no part in it at all.
What this all means:
Q: Is Mone part of the problem?
A: Yes and no. Yes, because he allowed Braun to conduct herself in an unprofessional manner for his entire tenure, offered little interest or oversight of the department or it's leader, and allowed the situation to spin well out of control. No because when finally aware of the issues with Braun, he has taken an active role in oversight, and has effectively frozen Braun out of any decisions of major importance, including the first major hire in her career as an AD, and one that will be used to measure her performance as an AD for many years to come, both in Milwaukee and beyond.
Q: Is Mone supporting/allied with/backing Braun?
A: I really do not think so. The overruling of Braun on the hiring was very much a move of a person who neither trusts, nor supports, Braun. Her opinion on the hire was utterly dismissed by Mone. He hired LJ without even discussing said hire with her, as she was clearly totally in the dark about the potential of LJ becoming the next head coach.
Q: Will Mone terminate Braun?
A: To early to tell. Braun has been stripped of any real authority at this point, and will not be making any real decisions of importance without approval of Mone. While she remains on the staff, and in the offical role of AD, she is no longer in charge. Taking the final step of firing her will require that Mone and the University have what they believe to be rock solid grounds to do so. Since Mone did "sign off" on her plan without doing his due diligence, that plan is not enough to pull that trigger.
However if it becomes clear that there is a strong pattern of lies and deception by Braun, both internally and externally, he may be able to build a case that she is no longer worthy of her role, and she will be terminated. If/when evidence of the advance negotiations with TJ become public, this will further build the case for Mone, as that is not allowed in hiring for public sector university positions, if not in fact, in spirit and as part of the general ethics of the University.
Q: So why did Mone do what he did?
A: Mone made the hire for several basic reasons. 1) He did not want the new coach to be an ally of, and beholden to, Braun. If she is terminated, that puts the program in some serious jeopardy. The new coach had to be independent of Braun. 2) Allowing Braun to make the hire solidifies her role as AD, while overruling her strips her of any real power (organizational theory in practice). 3) LJ was a "safer" hire. TJ has a reputation for playing fast and loose with the rules, where LJ does not. Furthermore, LJ maintains the existing diversity profile of the department, which was a consideration of the administration.
Q: So who does LJ really work for?
A: Mone.
Q: Should LJ watch his back?
A: Yes, but not as much as Jeter had to. Braun has little real power and will need to be very careful to not give Mone the cause he is desperate for to terminate her now.
Q: How could all of this have been prevented?
A: Had Lovell opted to resist the pressure applied by certain political big shots in WI, and hired the better candidate, this all would have been avoided. The AD would have supported the program and coaches fully, even if his plan was to hire a new coach. Had Jeter performed at a very high level, that plan for a new coach would have been abandoned and Jeter would have been extended. Had Jeter not performed, he would have been bought out, or his contract allowed to run out (likely the former). Either action would have been discussed in advance with key leaders inside and outside the University.
Instead Lovell hired the candidate least qualified as an AD, but most pleasing to certain powerful political people who were injecting themselves into the process, for reasons yet to be determined. That candidate already had a reputation in Green Bay and later at Northeastern as someone with serious deficiencies in "soft skills" and willing to cross ethical lines to further her career and/or plans. One need only look at some comments on the UWGB board to see people asking questions like "How does this woman have ANY friends?". She was clearly not missed at Green Bay, nor was she at Northeastern.
But those warning signs were ignored, and she was hired for a position she was not qualified for objectively. (Remember, she had never run a department at any level in her career, and was an assistant AD at a smaller program - our own assistant AD's were more qualified than she was as they were at least at a program of a larger size in the same role she held.) She was also unqualified from a "soft skills" standpoint. Her chief qualifications appear to have been a powerful political figure pushing for her hiring, and a proper Politically Correct Diversity First demographic profile.
Q: So what can we do now?
A: Continue to put pressure on Mone and do not allow him to go back into hiding. Continue to articulate the issues with Braun, past and present. Support LJ in whatever way you can without violating your principles and/or being seen to support Braun as well. Promise to return to the fold as soon as Braun is terminated, bringing with you as many other people as possible, and any money withheld during her tenure, and then some, giving Mone an economic incentive to make the move. Finally....pray.
They shouldn't be, unless there's evidence that race came into play. He is a classy guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanrocks
'Hawk, you had me at "Mone was disconnected!"
Major boosters, and I mean MAJOR boosters told Mone from the start of his administration that Braun was a tool, in over her head, paranoid and out to sabotage the program and RJ. Numerous times they asked Mone to step in and at least question Braun's actions. Mone ignored the inquiries made by these MAJOR boosters. This is the result. How does LJ go into work now having to pass Braun in the hallway. How does Braun go to work and have the ability to look LJ in the eyes? The derailment and dumpster fire continues to grow and the only way to have this put out is the removal of Braun. Case closed.
Braun has been effectively terminated already, based on the hiring fiasco. Her wishes were not only ignored, she was not even aware of the actual hiring plans. She is now not much more than a figurehead....and an awful one at that.
If I were her "employees", I would consider this very carefully as it relates to my employ-ability and allegiances.
EDIT: I would also add that LJ may have been told outright that he reports as much (or entirely) to Mone and not to Braun, making his position very solid and safe, and eliminating any uneasiness he may have in the office. That is speculation on my part, of course, but if I were Mone, that is what I would have told him and why.
i will say this for Mark Mone: His plate has been full with budget cuts at a level UWM has never before had to face.
When you're trying to determine whether entire schools and colleges at UWM will continue to exist as they do now or will be be merged or eliminated, and all the other issues connected with UWM's budget, the time available to devote to athletics is limited. If he did not intervene in the coaching situation until the point of hiring Rob Jeter's replacement, it was probably a question of not having time to look at the issues until that point.
If Amanda Braun was playing the kind of games Darkhawk thinks she was, and if she lied to the Chancellor about what she was doing, she's created a huge problem for herself. i don't know whether or not she's been completely cut out of the loop, but any game-playing she was doing failed utterly if she was on the point of hiring one coach and then was told that she had to retract her verbal offer and hire a different coach. If she's really been deposed, she will either be fired outright, or encouraged to seek another opportunity elsewhere.
The games are well documented, 'Heap. That is more than just speculation. That is the core issue here, in fact. Jeter's firing was not why people got upset....it was HOW that happened that was the final straw for donors, and perhaps Mone too. She lied to donors and Mone about how the money came about....the former she told nothing to and took their money to do it, and the latter she told the donors WERE informed and consented.
She was hell bent to get Jeter out, from about day 1, and was willing to do and say anything to get it done. THAT is the problem, and as I said, this is not an isolated incident, either. She had a reputation for exactly that type of duplicity before she was at UWM.
As for her future, I would say I would not want to be her right now. She is in a no-win situation now...had the TJ thing stayed just a rumor, LJ's success would be a reflection on her...now, any success will not be credited to her at all, and everyone now knows she has no power at all. She has been neutered and even leaving for another job will be difficult....she botched this whole thing in so many different ways that she may not be an AD ever again, or at least not for a long, long time. She had her shot and blew it in every way possible.
Dumpster Fire on Downer (TM)
I don't know nuthin' but what i read on these discussion-board thingies on the interwebs, so if others on this board do have real sources of information, i can't offer any arguments.
My position on what should happen to Amanda Braun is a matter of record. But if the university administration wants to encourage her to seek other employnent rather than fire her outright, i'll be just as happy that she's not running things.
As for Chancellor Mone, i hope he will take this situation as a lesson of what happens when campus leadership is not engaged. The negative publicity surrounding the coaching situation can't be helping.
PantherU on Mitch Nelles on 920 AM: http://www.thebig920.com/media/play/26904396/ at 31:20
Hey thanks! I was happy to play the straight man in this comedy of errors.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkHawkReturns
Audio was bad. I couldn't hear Jimmy.
"I couldn't hear Jimmy" is probably the first time that string of words has ever been put together.Quote:
Originally Posted by MU/Panther
I could hear it - good job Jimmy. Funny how Nelles said he knows TJ, has met TJ and has a call in to him, but never once pronounced his name correctly.
Did Chancellor Mone ignore the complaints of the boosters, or did he ask Braun about the complaints and decide not to remove her based on her response?Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana87
It wasn't long after Braun started on the job that postings on the eunuch board started, claiming that she was driving away boosters and sponsors. i didn't pay much attention to those postings at the time, because they came from someone who appeared to have joined the board for the expressed purpose of criticizing Braun, and because the postings were short on facts: no specifics about the numbers of boosters or donors driven away, not even a ballpark guess on how much money was involved. There wasn't a lot of comments about the postings, save for a few veteran members who appeared to have the same unwillingness as i did to take the poster's word without any corroboration.
Since she started as AD, Braun has made some decisions that call her ability to do her job effectively into question. People have been moved around in the department. Some people have left on their own initiative, and others have been let go or encouraged to leave and done so. There is also the debacle of the neutral site for the Horizon League basketball tournaments, and now the dumpster fire of the head coach situation for Men's basketball.
Had i known then what i know now, i would have been more willing to take those original claims seriously. Had Braun responded publicly to the claims then in the manner she has responded to this whole dumpster fire, i definitely would have been more suspicious about any claims she would have made about all being well with Panther Athletics. But especially i find the claims of her unfitness for the job to be much more believable because they are coming from long-time members of the discussion board, people whom i have observed for a number of years and concluded that they were straight shooters, with knowledge and contacts with the program that mean they know what they are talking about.
The whole point of having a Director running the Athletics Department is so the Chancellor doesn't have to make all the decisions about the department on top of all the other decisions involved with running a large university. Delegating authority in that manner requires that the authority be delegated to someone who is worthy of trust. By all recent accounts, Braun is not worthy of that level of authority, and quite possibly never was. How did she get hired? How did George Koonce get hired? How did Rick Costello get hired?
i would really like to see some hard data on the athletics department: (1) How many boosters have ceased donating to the department because of Amanda Braun, from the beginning of her tenure to now? How much money had they given? Where would the department's funding be if they were still donating? (2) How many corporate sponsors have stopped supporting Panther Athletics since Braun took over, and how much money has the department lost as a result? (3) How do the losses sustained compare with the claims of increases in the number of donors and amount of money donated which Braun has made? (3) How much money was lost from declining season ticket sales? (4) How much of the decline is the result of the lack of success Braun claims was the reason for firing Coach Jeter, and how much is the result of decisions made by Braun's predecessors as Director of Athletics? (There are believable claims that most of the decrease is the result of the decision to stop playing downtown.)
As interesting as this information would be to me, i think it would be much more useful in making the case to campus administration that they need to be as engaged with athletics as with any other aspect of university life. Engaged doesn't have to mean being completely hands-on, so long as someone trustworthy is running the department. But the kind of engagement that Nancy Zimpher had with athletics, to use Jimmy's example, clearly has benefits for the university.
I asked the Eunuch Board for those numbers. No reply. Just a repeat of the misleading number used in the D'Amato article. Given that 50% or more of the posters over there are actually employees of the Athletic Department, you would think those numbers would have magically popped on the board if they were so damn good. The lack of an answer is in fact an answer in this case.
It's comical to think Mone would hire a competent AD after his embarrassing performance during this entire debacle. Give me a break about too much on his plate in dealing with budget cuts, etc. This isn't the AD picking a new men's swimming coach: this is the sole revenue generating sport of the entire athletic department. He damn well better be aware of what's going on. I wouldn't let this ding dong any where near the hiring of a new AD, which is why he needs to go and the new chancellor bring in his/her own person.
For most purposes, the lack of an answer is an answer, i agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkHawkReturns
But if you want to make the case to Chancellor Mone that he needs to pay more attention to athletics, particularly considering its affect on UWM's public standing, i think you need data rather than the absence of data.
The folks on the eunuch board who are actual employees of the athletics department can't release that information on the board; since they're pretending they're not employees, releasing it would give away the game. Also, if the data is, as we suspect, evidence against Braun rather than for her, they would have even less incentive to release it.
i think you'd have to go after that information some other fashion. i am sure it would be a lot of work, but i think the gathered data would be very useful.
Someone would have to identify current and former donors, and if how much they've given and/or are giving isn't public information in some form, would have to ask them, along with, if they have stopped giving, why they stopped. Each individual donor could simply refuse to answer the questions, even if assured that their names would not appear publicly.
It's possible that campus administration already has the data, but would they have had a reason to ask for it unless they already suspected that the reported data was inaccurate? Perhaps the Chancellor's intervention in the HC hiring is an indication that he doesn't trust Braun. That makes sense to me, but i have no way of knowing for certain.