Fascinating read on Tom Crean ...

This kind of stuff makes you shake your head and wonder ...

Like him or not, nobody deserves some of the stuff Tom Crean has been put through at Indiana.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...sy-being-crean

I always cheer for Crean's team because of what he did for MU basketball in his 9 years here.

I can't believe a college professor would do that with his kid in class. Unbelievable.

Interviewed for Kansas in 2003, don't remember that tidbit anywhere.

Some college professors get there rocks off by playing "Center of the Universe" and show contempt for their students. The Indiana prof would have known better if he was a mature adult rather than a narcissistic tweet.

Could be just a matter of semantics but I'm pretty sure IWB said Crean talked to Illinois after Self took the Kansas job?

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Originally Posted by Markedman

Could be just a matter of semantics but I'm pretty sure IWB said Crean talked to Illinois after Self took the Kansas job?

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That was my recollection as well.

Can't believe it has already been 7 years - geez.

First off, talking to people and interviewing are different things, I want to make that clear. The years that Buzz was happy he talked to everyone that called. Didn't mean he was interested, didn't mean he was being interviewed. There was one in particular that he talked to a couple of times. Told me he had no interest, but he had to play the game because of who they were. Didn't want to burn bridges. Then, when that school finally hired someone, they asked him who should be on their staff. Buzz made a recommendation and that coach was the first assistant hired.

Again, interviewing and talking are two different things.

Kansas - I never really did get confirmation that he interviewed with Kansas. Either way, that situation was over before it started because Self took that job immediately.

Illinois - He did not 'interview with them'. Their people contacted him. He was interested, so told them how much it would take. That was the end of that. (at the time Crean was making more than Illinois' football coach).

The only other one I knew he was actually interested in was Ohio State. I believe he actually met with them, but that was the same result. Too much cash.

With Indiana, they went after him a few years prior when Sampson was hired, but he was not interested. He loved it at MU. When they came calling again after Sampson was let go, he again said no, then called them two days later and said he was interested.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

When they came calling again after Sampson was let go, he again said no, then called them two days later and said he was interested.

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After his coaching job against Stanford, I'm surprised Indiana took that call.

We owe a lot to Crean, no doubt about that as he did tremendous things for our program. There are some idiots out there (irrational fans, professors, etc) that do and say stupid things that impact not only the coach but the coach's family, no doubt about that.

But I have to say, I don't really feel bad for him despite this articles attempt to make me feel that way. He took the Indiana job because as he said "It's Indiana" implying it's special and that you can win big at the school which if history is any indication he is correct. However with that school pedigree you also receive the constant pressure cooker because people expect results and rightfully so. Say what you will about the situation Sampson created or the Butler program or Purdue program but I think even Crean would admit he has not lived up to his expectations for Indiana basketball. Heck he could've stayed at Marquette and probably accomplished the same feats (conference title, S16, a few tourney appearances). The best thing he did was structure the contract with lofty buyouts. Had he not done that, my guess is he'd not be the coach at Indiana.

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Originally Posted by MUfan12

After his coaching job against Stanford, I'm surprised Indiana took that call.

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TC did a lot of things well, including game prep. Unfortunately in-game adjustments were generally not his forte. That Stanford game was a very good example. Most of us really hated how his departure went down, but TC surely did a lot for the MU program.

I wish Tom Crean was still here to get the students to the games.

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

I wish Tom Crean was still here to get the students to the games.

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We need to get good again to get students to the game.

I don't dislike Crean and am very thankful for him getting Marquette Basketball back on the map.

I don't, however, respect him.

With Indiana, they went after him a few years prior when Sampson was hired, but he was not interested. He loved it at MU. When they came calling again after Sampson was let go, he again said no, then called them two days later and said he was interested.[/QUOTE]

So what changed?

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Originally Posted by IrwinFletcher

With Indiana, they went after him a few years prior when Sampson was hired, but he was not interested. He loved it at MU. When they came calling again after Sampson was let go, he again said no, then called them two days later and said he was interested.

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So what changed?[/QUOTE]

Was kind of wondering the same thing. Was it something on Marquette's end or was it simply he felt ready for the big time?

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Originally Posted by WindyCityGoldenEagle

So what changed?

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Was kind of wondering the same thing. Was it something on Marquette's end or was it simply he felt ready for the big time?[/QUOTE]

Seemed like the Shumpert recruitment was a blow, plus not getting over the 1st weekend hump 3 straight years.

Thing is, if he'd stayed and had managed to hold onto Tyshawn and Mbakwe, still replacing Christopherson with Jimmy Butler thanks to Buzz...holy sh1t. Would've been a lot better for him than those first 3 seasons at Indiana for sure.

If Crean had stayed, we would be talking about his legacy and we would build a bronze statue of him in the future. Pun intended. Instead, he tried to grab a better brass ring and has nothing but derision to show for it. It was in the cards, though. Mike Davis was treated like absolute crap 2 years after taking Indiana to the Final Four. What is happening to TC is no different than Davis. All that being said, he should be in MU's HOF.

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Originally Posted by WindyCityGoldenEagle

We owe a lot to Crean, no doubt about that as he did tremendous things for our program. There are some idiots out there (irrational fans, professors, etc) that do and say stupid things that impact not only the coach but the coach's family, no doubt about that.

But I have to say, I don't really feel bad for him despite this articles attempt to make me feel that way. He took the Indiana job because as he said "It's Indiana" implying it's special and that you can win big at the school which if history is any indication he is correct. However with that school pedigree you also receive the constant pressure cooker because people expect results and rightfully so. Say what you will about the situation Sampson created or the Butler program or Purdue program but I think even Crean would admit he has not lived up to his expectations for Indiana basketball. Heck he could've stayed at Marquette and probably accomplished the same feats (conference title, S16, a few tourney appearances). The best thing he did was structure the contract with lofty buyouts. Had he not done that, my guess is he'd not be the coach at Indiana.

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First, what the teacher did was despicable.

As far as the negativity, Crean brings much of it on himself. His ironclad contract didn't win anyone over. His attitude does not lend itself to endearment.
And he got what he wanted. Don't feel bad for him in the least. His family? Yes, they should not have to endure what they do.

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Originally Posted by pbiflyer

First, what the teacher did was despicable.

As far as the negativity, Crean brings much of it on himself. His ironclad contract didn't win anyone over. His attitude does not lend itself to endearment.
And he got what he wanted. Don't feel bad for him in the least. His family? Yes, they should not have to endure what they do.

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Yep agree with you, sorry if my point about the teacher wasn't clear.

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

I wish Tom Crean was still here to get the students to the games.

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Monday night games against Valley City State and IUPUI...tough draws. Belmont was a good showing. Tomorrow should be as well.

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Originally Posted by WindyCityGoldenEagle

But I have to say, I don't really feel bad for him despite this articles attempt to make me feel that way. He took the Indiana job because as he said "It's Indiana" implying it's special and that you can win big at the school which if history is any indication he is correct. However with that school pedigree you also receive the constant pressure cooker because people expect results and rightfully so.

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Agreed. I have no pity for him. If you take a job like Indiana, Texas, even Wisconsin, any school that combines a tradition of winning with an irrational fan base, this will happen. If Bucky's next hoops coach does poorly, he'll get the same response. Or worse. You don't want psycho fans to heckle your kids? Then coach at a good school with a supportive fan base for a reasonable salary. You want to bang the whore, sooner or later you get the clap.

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Originally Posted by WindyCityGoldenEagle

or was it simply he felt ready for the big time?

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Huh?

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Originally Posted by Hamostradamus

You want to bang the whore, sooner or later you get the clap.

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Haha bravo!

The last line of the article says, "But, either way, as Joani might say, he's going to be good. He's going to be good and he's going to be fine."

Yeah, anyone think TC's time at Indiana will end well?

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Originally Posted by Gato78

All that being said, he should be in MU's HOF.

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Him and his Final 4 year are already in. Personally? I would take Rick first for his total coaching contributions. Heck, one could make the case of Buzz before Crean based on results (won the Big East, 3 Sweet 16's, 1 Elite 8, players in the NBA, fastest coach to 100 wins, winning %, etc.), although that would never happen for other reasons.

For whatever reasons, and I think it is wrong, Crean has a tarnished record at MU. I think it is also wrong that he has been erased from the timeline video, but the booing is a downer. He left a lot of bad blood.

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Originally Posted by Hamostradamus

You want to bang the whore, sooner or later you get the clap.

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I'm guessing Gato, Goose or IWB's version of this story is better than Hamo's version. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Hamostradamus

The last line of the article says, "But, either way, as Joani might say, he's going to be good. He's going to be good and he's going to be fine."

Yeah, anyone think TC's time at Indiana will end well?

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In fairness, most coaching jobs at high profile colleges not named Duke, or Kansas don't end well, especially at places like II,II.

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Originally Posted by WindyCityGoldenEagle

Yep agree with you, sorry if my point about the teacher wasn't clear.

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No, it was, I was just pointing out for myself.

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Originally Posted by BLT

Him and his Final 4 year are already in. Personally? I would take Rick first for his total coaching contributions. Heck, one could make the case of Buzz before Crean based on results (won the Big East, 3 Sweet 16's, 1 Elite 8, players in the NBA, fastest coach to 100 wins, winning %, etc.), although that would never happen for other reasons.

For whatever reasons, and I think it is wrong, Crean has a tarnished record at MU. I think it is also wrong that he has been erased from the timeline video, but the booing is a downer. He left a lot of bad blood.

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I'm sorry but Crean's record at MU is way better than Rick's. Rick is a great guy and all, represented MU well, and his "failures" were not really his fault, but standing side by side, Crean simply accomplished more.

Crean seems like an easy guy to dislike. I never met him, but from others I know who have say he comes off a bit like a used car salesman. His recruiting was up and down. For instance, MU gets to the Final Four but never builds off of it. He can't seem to take that next step. And he looks a bit like a pretty boy.

And the way he departed left some people with a bad taste. But many of those same people think O'Neil was a great yet his departure was completely classless.

But I think Gato is right. If he would have turned down IU and still at MU, he would still have been successful.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

I'm sorry but Crean's record at MU is way better than Rick's. Rick is a great guy and all, represented MU well, and his "failures" were not really his fault, but standing side by side, Crean simply accomplished more.

Crean seems like an easy guy to dislike. I never met him, but from others I know who have say he comes off a bit like a used car salesman. His recruiting was up and down. For instance, MU gets to the Final Four but never builds off of it. He can't seem to take that next step. And he looks a bit like a pretty boy.

And the way he departed left some people with a bad taste. But many of those same people think O'Neil was a great yet his departure was completely classless.

But I think Gato is right. If he would have turned down IU and still at MU, he would still have been successful.

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Totally agree on all counts. I get that some folks (including me) do not like how his departure went down and that he can be an abrasive personality, but he was successful. A Final Four coming out of the CUSA and immediate success in the old BE are hallmarks of his success. As Gato says, he should be in the MU HOF some day (after he retires probably).

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

O'Neil was a great yet his departure was completely classless.

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After O'Neil had his press conference in Tennessee, he showed up in Heggarty's that same day, still wearing the orange tie that he had on at the press conference. Everyone was going up to him and thanking him for beating Kentucky and getting us to the Final Four. I kept yelling from the back to get out of an MU bar! Especially while wearing the other team's colors!

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Originally Posted by MUWhistler

After O'Neil had his press conference in Tennessee, he showed up in Heggarty's that same day, still wearing the orange tie that he had on at the press conference. Everyone was going up to him and thanking him for beating Kentucky and getting us to the Final Four. I kept yelling from the back to get out of an MU bar! Especially while wearing the other team's colors!

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A Final Four in the O'Neil era would have been great, but the Kentucky win in 1994 got us to the Sweet 16; although it was the farthest MU got in the tourney since, I believe, the title run in 1977.

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Originally Posted by WearGold

A Final Four in the O'Neil era would have been great, but the Kentucky win in 1994 got us to the Sweet 16; although it was the farthest MU got in the tourney since, I believe, the title run in 1977.

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O'Neil did a great job when here, and put MU back on the map. Unfortunately I think some things he was told would be happening at MU never materialized when he was coaching here, so I understood why he moved on. Like Crean and Buzz, I appreciated what O'Neil did for the program despite his leaving and taking some parting shots.

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Originally Posted by WearGold

A Final Four in the O'Neil era would have been great, but the Kentucky win in 1994 got us to the Sweet 16; although it was the farthest MU got in the tourney since, I believe, the title run in 1977.

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Sorry. Mistyped that. You are correct. Got us to the Sweet 16.

As someone mentioned, Crean knew the job was dangerous when he took it. Fans are crazy, and some of this stuff is clearly uncalled for. Picking on a high school kid is just mean, and if the professor knew that Crean's daughter was in his class, so is the April Fools joke.

To Ix4 fans, I would say that Crean is who I told you he was. He runs a clean program, his players have to go to class. His recruiting and coaching are hit or miss. He recruited some players who were not as good as he thought, panics when there is an empty spot on his roster, and has a lot of players transfer. Coaching, his teams sometimes look like a well-oiled machine and sometimes look like they just woke up. So there is something for fans to complain about when his recruits turn out to be busts or head cases and his team plays terribly.

But I think what hurts Crean more than anything is that there is just an unlikable quality about him. As the article noted, he comes across as a used car salesman. In interviews he is typically either spouting cliches or sucking up. He does not come across as sincere. Add to that the fact that I have witnessed a few incidents of Crean just treating people like dirt and heard of a several more. You can afford that if you are winning all the time. Hey, for all his good points, Bobby Knight pulled some stuff that was just out of line and would not be tolerated from someone who had not won a couple national championships. So when criticism arises, there are not a lot of people out there who remember what a nice guy Crean is or how kind he was to them. There are reporters who remember how he kept them waiting while they were on deadline, waiters he was rude to, and others who just do not like the guy.

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Originally Posted by Goose85

O'Neil did a great job when here, and put MU back on the map. Unfortunately I think some things he was told would be happening at MU never materialized when he was coaching here, so I understood why he moved on. Like Crean and Buzz, I appreciated what O'Neil did for the program despite his leaving and taking some parting shots.

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I don't mind coaches leaving. I have changed companies 4 times in my career. Why would I think that anyone else would be different? He got a new job. That's great. Good for him and hope it works out well. You want to go have a drink to celebrate, go do it downtown. Don't do it on campus. That's just rubbing our nose in it! That was my beef with how he left.

Here is my Mount Rushmore of MU men's b-ball coaches: Al...KO...TC...Buzz. Al was the only one who was really universally loved, but his spectacular "exit" was a tad different than the other three!

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Originally Posted by WearGold

A Final Four in the O'Neil era would have been great, but the Kentucky win in 1994 got us to the Sweet 16; although it was the farthest MU got in the tourney since, I believe, the title run in 1977.

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Hank's 1979 team lost to DePaul in the Sweet 16. DePaul made the Final 4 that year with what would have been Al recruits.