Ok, I will start with an apology to our Chicago members, but that was the worst draft ever.
Gato78, Goose85, the Notorious GAS and I used to frequent the NFL's Annual Selection Meetings in New York. Some of the greatest sporting events I have been to. From the trivia battles between the Giants & J-E-T-S fans to the bus loads of Philly fans in full pads (that a sober Gato tried to take on for some reason), the draft was always incredible. The set up was like this - upper deck split in two between Giants and J-E-T-S fans and the rest filling in in the lower level along with the TV booth, and down in front the team tables etc. Oh, and the Cleveland fans in the mezzanine making it a true "dog pound".
Last night was a joke, here were the problems....
1) The NFL tried to make this a three day made-for-TV event. The draft is a long drawn out ordeal. It is not made for TV, it is made for true sports die-hards. Day three? Really? Blame this one on the NFL. All night long, one round.
2) Grant Park? Really? The draft and 'draft area' was out doors? From what it looked like on TV, the main stage with the main crowd was in a tent/studio, but the rest were outside. They were lucky it wasn't 10 degrees. Too big of an ordeal for something that is several hours long.
3) They are trying to make this a family-friendly event. Really? I know a guy taking his young son today. "He's not into football, but I am, so we'll have fun." Really? Your kid won't mind sitting through 5 hours of calling out names and showing some highlights? That kid will be scarred. Again, the draft is for the diehards, not the casual fans.
4) No love for the J-E-T-S fans? It was always a tradition that when the Jets were about to pick, the Jets fans would give it their all with a J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS cheer that would be as loud as the stadium would be on game day. Then the pick..... Jets fans would usually hate their pick, look shocked, boo, etc. It they hated their pick - the rest of the crowd would cheer. If they liked their pick - the place would boo. Last night when the Jets were on the clock they showed two, yes two Jets fans. Pathetic.
5) Chicago fans. Sorry, they were terrible, for two reasons.
1) Yes, it has always been tradition to boo the commissioner, but you stop when he starts talking, and the booing really dies out after a couple of picks. Not Chicago fans, they would boo to the point where, on a few of occasions, the commissioner would have to stop and start over. For one pick he had to start over not once, but twice just while announcing a single pick. And there were plenty of individuals that were likely loaded, that would yell something in the midst of the announcement (kind of like the a-holes that yell "In the hole!" every time a golfer tees off.) It was beyond obnoxious. In New York, while the fans do boo the commissioner and do heckle other teams, above all they respect the draft and at no time try to yell themselves onto TV.
2) Bears done? We're done. In New York the draft was always long. They did the first two rounds on night 1. It was a long night. Hell, the year that they expanded with two teams they moved the first pick time from what, 5 minutes to 8? Or something like that? Just with those two rules, they expanded rd 1 by almost two full hours. But that was ok, the fans stuck it out. These were the diehards. The crowd would finally die down 3/4 of the way through round 2. Last night the Bears picked 5th, and from the looks of it on TV, when they were done their fans were done. The place cleared out. That blew.
Side note, on the loaded fans trying to yell themselves onto TV? While there were some people putting down beers in New York, most fans waited until it was over because they knew they were there for the long haul. The real drinking was done on Times Square after the selections were complete.
6) Worst draft ever. This is an NFL/TV issue, and that is the TV timing and the best example of why the draft is not 'made-for-TV'. We learned long ago that interviews and commercials were deadly. I remember the year they were interviewing Denny Green. The ESPN booth was right next to us. They had him on a live feed and Chris Berman asked him one question. Green wouldn't stop talking. Seriously. The next pick was up, Tagliabue was at stage left - they were all looking at Berman who had his hands up in the air like, "What should I do, he won't shut up?" So when there is a delay on TV, that doesn't mean the pick isn't ready. However, back then when the commish got to the stage, they did what they could to wrap it up. Last night I get in the car to go to the store and what do I find? Radio is 3+ picks ahead of TV. I knew who the Packers took at #30 when they had yet to announce pick #28. Here is what started it.....
All of the GMs are on a computer system that shows when a pick is made, who it was, how much time left on the clock. They all know how to 'play the game'. Once a pick is made the kid comes up to the stage, poses for a pic, they show highlights.... But Carolina has a new GM. He doesn't get it. When he was on the clock he punched in his pick 30 seconds into the clock. The pick before them wasn't even up to the stage yet, so the next team proceeded with their pick. After all, they have a time limit. It continued on. By the time they had gotten done showing Carolina's pick, two more picks had been made. What made it worse, is that these players were tweeting out that they were picked by XYZ team, so no matter what was on TV, follow the players on Twitter and you are ahead of TV by 10 minutes.
Although the NFL and Chicago fans will say it was the greatest ever, they moved the draft to Chicago and it failed big time.
WAY OT: Long rant....Sorry Chicago, worst draft ever
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05-01-2015, 08:43 AMIWBWAY OT: Long rant....Sorry Chicago, worst draft ever
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05-01-2015, 09:11 AMGato78
I think the actual draft was across the street from Grant Park at an auditorium--it looked like it was an extension of what was going on outside but it was inside a theater. I was shocked when IWB texted me the Packers 1st Round pick two or three picks ahead of the Packers actual selection on TV. The Annual Selection Meeting needs to return to NYC. When I went with IWB et al, there was no alcohol served at MSG Theater. Still, some found its way in. The whole thing last night was pathetic--Chicago fans, or any other locale, cannot compete with NYC. The fact there are two big fan bases in NYC helps the atmosphere along with the Philly fans and all of the rest of the league. Non Bears fans last night were weak, but it had to be expected. Nothing better than the J-E-T-S fans being happy, PO'd etc. Giants fans are right there with them. I did once take on a bus full of Philly fans who were part of a sports radio promotion as they exited their bus at MSG--several in full pads. They were crazy. IWB and Goose 85 had to pull me away before fisticuffs ensued. Pretty hilarious in retrospect--the full Philly fan experience, they were going to bitch about everything. They were the guys that booed Santa Claus and threw snowballs at him.
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05-01-2015, 09:17 AMThe Reptile
You know that Chicago needs help when they have to import Jets fans and set them loose to understand what makes their participation in Draft Day so special. And as a long suffering Jets fan I will say that until the Jets draft the next Joe Namith we will always boo our picks.
http://wgntv.com/2015/04/30/angry-je...oo-everything/ -
05-01-2015, 09:20 AMLitehouse
The actual draft was in the Auditorium theater a few blocks away from Grant Park.
http://www.auditoriumtheatre.org/shows/nfl-draft-2015/ -
05-01-2015, 09:52 AMTheSultan
The NFL draft has had round one on Thursday night for a few years now. That isn't a Chicago thing. That is a "made for TV" thing. The crowd looked good on television and looked like they were having a good time. The lack of trades took away the intrigue. And you should watch the NFL Network's coverage instead of ESPN.
I agree that it is too long, but I am old and not the die-hard guy they are catering to. -
05-01-2015, 09:53 AMIWB
Crazy - a few shots on TV made it look like it was all part of it - maybe that is how they tried to make it look.
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05-01-2015, 09:55 AMTheSultanYeah I think that's exactly what they were trying to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"
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05-01-2015, 09:58 AMIWB
I know the Thursday isn't a Chicago thing, that was created a few years ago when the NFL Network wanted to give themselves three days of programming. It was still part of a terrible draft.
Bottom line, when I know the pick three picks ahead of TV - it is a terrible freaking draft.
While the crowd looked good on TV, yes - you can always make a crowd look good on TV. But when they had different angles, you could see how sparse it was when they had a different angle - again, not until the Bears made their pick. -
05-01-2015, 10:03 AMMUMacI believe that started in 2010. For a few years prior to that, it was a two day event, with Rounds 1 & 2 on the same day (Friday night). At one time, they did Rounds 1-3 on Saturday morning and Rounds 4-7 on Sunday. going way back, it used to be on a Tuesday, starting at 7:00 am.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSultan
I prefer the two day event with Rounds 1 & 2 together. -
05-01-2015, 11:06 AMMUFAN2010
Hey speaking of the draft. What do the Packers and Bears have in common?
They both drafted a pass catcher for Jay Cutler last night! -
05-01-2015, 11:26 AMGoose85Now that is A Game!Quote:
Originally Posted by MUFAN2010
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05-01-2015, 11:49 AMIrwinFletcher
So, let me get this straight. This was the worst draft ever and that Chicago is to blame because....
1) The NFL made it a 3 day event three years ago when it was in New York
2) There is an outdoor venue that if it were 10 degrees outside, would have made it a bad venue (it was 60 degrees yesterday)
3) Not sure what this has to do with Chicago or why anything has changed from NY on this matter.
4) This was a bad draft because people weren't yelling J-E-T-S all night? Shouldn't you blame the Jets fans for not making the trip? How is that Chicago's fault?
5) So Bear fans booed a bit longer than usual (btw, that is opinion and not a documented fact) and left a bit early (again opinion and documented fact)
6) again, nothing new here. Guys on Twitter are announcing picks before announced on TV. Has long been a problem since ESPN dragged this out.
Not sure what your points have to do with Chicago. Sounds like some Bucks fans are just upset that they were embarrassed by their performance last night. I think we should talk about that being the worst playoff game performance ever. -
05-01-2015, 01:02 PMGoose85I don't think it is a Chicago issue as much as it was the NFL and ESPN's trying to make the NFL Annual Selection Meeting a longer made for tv event along with a NFL roadshow experience, which was held in Chicago.Quote:
Originally Posted by IrwinFletcher
1) I did not like the move to Thursday and have just one round. Much preferred the Sat / Sun format. Dragged it out and made it less watchable in my estimation.
2) I guess the NFL now wants this to be a traveling NFL roadshow like the Superbowl / All Star Games / etc. I was not there, so I couldn't tell if it was a money maker or just an NFL festival. I'm fine with festivals and the NFL trying to extend branding, etc. At times it did make it look like they were holding the draft outside.
3) I am not sure if the draft last night had large groups of different fan bases at the actual draft (not the outdoor NFL festival). I did prefer NY (on Sat) as you normally had pretty big contingents of competing fan bases with Jets, Giants, Philly, NE, along with fans from every team. While the Jet fans are normally laughed at and heckled for post Namath draft misses, it seems all NFL fans agree on one thing, the biggest boos of the night were normally reserved for the Raider fans.
4) Again, not Chicago's fault it was on a Thursday and it did not appear the draft had large groups of multiple fan bases that help make it a fun event.
5) Not sure if the draft event was packed the entire time as it normally was when I watched / attended in NY.
6) I don't recall picks leaking out long in advance of the Commish making the announcement ever before this year, so I don't agree that has long been a problem. In the past, if ESPN was at commercial they would do what they do at actual games and have someone signal the Commish when they were back live. Rarely would they delay the Commish from delaying announcing a selection. The draft is long enough without postponing announcing a pick.
To me it has less to do with Chicago, and more the idea that the NFL and ESPN are trying to make the draft event a roadshow. Any idea where will it be next year?
Has nothing to do with the Bucks sucking last night (their worst loss in franchise history), or sour grapes as a result. IWB along with myself, Gato and others have actually attended the event in NY, and have gathered with others for many years to watch (when on Saturday), but haven't do so since it became a Thursday event. I'm sure his comments would have been the same (as would my negative impression) had it been in Seattle, Dallas, Jacksonville or San Fran. -
05-01-2015, 01:03 PMIWB
Where did I ever say Chicago was to blame? I didn't.
I said it was the worst draft ever, and said "Sorry Chicago fans" because it just happened to be in Chicago.
To answer your points....
1) True
2) 10 degrees or not, the draft is not a "fan fest". It is a draft. Why the NFL is trying to make it a three day event is beyond me other than a need for three days of NFL Network programming. What's next, stretch the NCAA selection show into 3 days? Day 1 - #1 Seeds.... Day 2 - #Automatic bids... Day 3 - at large bids. It is a draft, not a week long event.
3) It has to do with Chicago because it was in Chicago. Seems pretty straight forward and simple. The draft has always been in New York, and having 2 teams with huge populations right there made it what it was. Why change it? Why ruin tradition? No need for that to move. Should the Big East Tourney become a round robin? No.
4) Was it bad because no one yelled J-E-T-S? No, but that is part of of the fun and tradition. The draft was full of traditions and was a classic event. All of the traditions were gone last night. And to learn that most of the people that attended were not even at the actual draft, but blocks away? Why bother?
5) Bear fans booed a lot longer. Opinion? Yes, an opinion from someone who has attended the draft in New York, so having had real life experiences to compare it to I would think makes it a fact. It was overly annoying, especially when the commissioner had to stop and start over. Repeatedly. Fans left early - From TV it sure looked like fact, but now knowing that the actual draft was at a different location I can't blame them as they weren't really even there to begin with.
6) Guys on Twitter announcing picks is not new, but when they are doing it 3-4 picks ahead of time? That has not happened before. Never.
Bucks - Bulls? Really? That is what it sounds like? While I do follow the Bucks I have said on this site many times that I do not like the NBA, so what does that have to do with anything? Had you ever been to the draft in New York, the way it used to be, you would know exactly what I am talking about. -
05-01-2015, 01:07 PMIWB
Goo -
As much as I enjoy ripping on ESPN, I don't think they are to blame for the three days. I think the NFL & the NFL Network are behind that, ESPN just following suit. I think this is all on the NFL. -
05-01-2015, 01:07 PMMUfan12
Well, since Irwin mentioned it...
Dunleavy can go fornicate himself with a rusty pole.
Carry on. -
05-01-2015, 01:12 PMMUFAN2010I got more where that came from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose85
Bears drafted a wide receiver??
Hope he can tackle. -
05-01-2015, 01:19 PMGoose85First, I agree with MUFan12 on Dunleay (and his dad too).Quote:
Originally Posted by MUFAN2010
Second, Hope the Bears WR can tackle - still laughing on that one (have to enjoy it while I can - the chances of following Favre / Rodgers with another Hall of Fame type QB is not good). -
05-01-2015, 01:35 PMMUWhistler
The NFL got pissed at Radio City Music Hall last year, where they have had the draft for several years. Radio City pushed the draft two weeks later than the NFL usually holds it because they wanted to have a Rockettes concert there. Then, because of poor sales, they wound up cancelling the show, and Radio City sat empty the normal weekend that the draft was held. At that point, it was too late to move it, though. There was lots of write-ups in the papers here about how pissed the NFL was at the events, so to get even, decided to start moving the draft around to different venues and screw over Radio City Music Hall.
Unfortunately, this is an example of where you don't mess with tradition. They will never draw the crowd in other cities the way they did in NYC, so we will be stuck with the scenes that were last night. Oh well. All in the name of Uncle Dollar. -
05-01-2015, 02:00 PMIrwinFletcher
I guess I don't see where the tradition fits in terms of the draft location. If you are tuning in to see the crazy fans than you aren't tuning in to see the draft. Have it in Green Bay for all I care, it just doesn't make a difference to me.
In terms of the outdoor stuff, obviously it is an attempt to make it a destination for the NFL and the City. It is an opportunity for the NFL sponsors to show up and market themselves and a chance for the city to get people in to town and spend money. In short, it is all about money. -
05-01-2015, 03:29 PMIWB
Prior to Radio City it was at Madison Square Garden in the Theater.
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05-01-2015, 04:16 PMTheSultanQuote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"
It certainly seemed implied with this statement:
"...they moved the draft to Chicago and it failed big time." -
05-01-2015, 04:18 PMTheSultanQuote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"
You just answered your own question. This is a three day event because PEOPLE WILL WATCH IT FOR THREE DAYS. It really is just that simple. -
05-01-2015, 04:25 PMNukem2Well, some people might. I'm a huge Packer fan, but I'm not going to submit myself to 3 days of drudgery.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSultan
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05-01-2015, 04:29 PMTheSultanQuote:
Originally Posted by Nukem2
Neither am I. But the NFL is doing this because ESPN and the NFL Network want them to.
I get why IWB is upset regarding the draft not being what it was. But things change. It is a made for television event first and foremost. That's who pays the bills. -
05-01-2015, 04:42 PMNukem2How many people really watch it? Probably channel surfing and checking in occasionally to see what's happening. Or checking on their smartphones and tablets occasionally. Suspect the networks are way overpaying for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSultan
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05-01-2015, 04:50 PMTheSultan
Well I am deferring to their judgement. It has been three days for long enough for them to know what works in my opinion.
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05-01-2015, 05:22 PMGoose85I understand what you are saying, and the networks must be seeing that to extend to 3 days (or they have nothing else) but I continually think the NFL is overestimating their ability to saturate the market with more product and get people to continue to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSultan
In the past I always watched Day 1 (on Sat) of the NFL draft. I would actually get together with others and have friendly wagers on who would have the most right, when first Badger would go, who the Pack would pick, etc. I don't watch it as much now with the Thursday, and don't expect to watch much of the second round on its own day.
Similar to the Thursday night NFL games (I actually have nothing against Thursday night - ha). I really liked it when Thursday night football was a chance for the other 5 FBS conferences and schools like Boise State, Nevada, MAC schools, CUSA, etc to get their TV game. That worked so well that what is now the Big 5 wanted in. Before long the NFL now has games on Thursday. I will watch the college game over the pro game on Thursday.
I know betting and fantasy football play a big role, but is the NFL giving fans too much product? I used to always watch Monday Night Football, and it almost didn't matter who was playing. Now by Monday there have been so many games (Thursday - Sunday noon - Sunday 3pm - Sunday night) I find I've already gotten my weekend football fix and no longer look forward to Monday night (unless the Pack play).
I may be in the minority, but I think the NFL is providing too much content which is why I liked the draft on a Sat (rounds 1 and 2) and Thursday night football to be the other 5 FBS games. Same reason I don't listen to Homer's radio show, it's Packers and NFL football almost every day of the year. I love football, but enjoy talking about other sports too. -
05-01-2015, 08:47 PMMUMacCome on, now. That was one part of one sentence, the last sentence. It was not the premise of the post. It was not even inferred, outside of that last half of that sentence. If you read the entire post, that sentence was not the material part. You are being extremely disingenuous with that comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSultan
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05-01-2015, 09:51 PMTheSultan
Sorry. That's how I (and apparently others) took it.
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05-02-2015, 07:13 AMGoose85
If a lot of people came out for the NFL experience stuff, like they do at baseball all star game, then I would think the NFL continues the road show combined with the draft.
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05-02-2015, 09:03 AMBLT
Was in Grant Park venue last night and it was fun. Giant beer hall tent with huge screens, a midway with a tent for each team, vendors. Basically it was a FanFest and a reason to be outside in the Spring. Did not attend the draft in the Auditorium but that sold out a long time ago. Like Sweetest Day, it is a commercially created holiday.
As to holding it in NYC or Chicago, I view the live event like attending your kid's swim meet. You sit idly by for four hours and only care for the 30 seconds your kid swims the 50 Free. Is the live event that exciting to pay that kind of money? -
05-02-2015, 10:16 AMIrwinFletcher
From the Tribune today:
Thursday night drew 50,000 people to "Draft Town". Retail sales from the first night eclipsed the combined take from 3 nights in New York.
Ratings - Game 6 Bulls/Bucks in Chicago drew a 10.7 rating vs the draft which drew a 6.1. Nationally, the draft drew 8.8 million viewers, making it a top 10 program for the week. -
05-02-2015, 11:01 AMGato78
Cousin of mine has NFL ties. He said first hour of the draft is watched by a decent number. All of the advertising is geared around that first hour. Thereafter it trails off. I think the three day is to try to generate first hour viewers. I am sure this is mostly to deliver content for NFL Network
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05-02-2015, 12:47 PMGoose85
when did they start charging to go to the draft? Sounds like the NFL did well with this. I still like the Sat -Sun format, but if this allows you to sell beer, they will continue as it sounds successful.
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05-02-2015, 04:12 PMTheSultanQuote:
Originally Posted by Goose85
If people are watching, there really isn't such a thing as "too much content." That's why every Marquette game is on television now. -
05-04-2015, 09:05 AMMUWhistler
Looks like the early indiciations are that the draft in Chicago was a big success and that it will be travelling in the future.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/sp...=football&_r=0 -
05-04-2015, 09:31 AMWarriorNich
To sit down and watch intently for 3 hours in prime time, the draft is not good. It's great to have on in the background and when "The pick is in" everyone stops what they were doing, watch for 10 sec, then go back to what they were doing. Under the old 3 round Saturday format I used to get together with the guys, play cards, drink beer, eat pizza and have the draft on in the background. I've also been at family functions where the draft has been on as background. Terribly boring to watch as a focal point but when the pick is in or they interview a draft pick, coach or GM for your team you pay attention.
The Jets, Eagles, and Giants fans all made for part of the experience. The J-E-T-S chants and obnoxiousness of Jets fans, the quiet class of the Giants fans,the boorish Eagle fans...all in large numbers with geographic rivalries...the overall disdain of the Raiders...the forlorn Browns fan in dog pound costume, head down after another bad Browns pick, wondering "I came all the way from Cleveland for this?"...all part of the experience that is slowly slipping away. The NFL has definitely hit the saturation point for me.
Another reason why the Thur-Fri-Sat format is stupid: draft parties. I remember a few years ago the Badgers had Peter Konz projected to be a late 1st round pick and Kevin Zeitler projected to go 2nd round. So Konz has his draft party on Thur and Zeitler had his Fri. Konz wasn't drafted until the 2nd round on Fri so his party must've been a bit of a let down. Meanwhile Zeitler is surprisingly picked late 1st by the Bengals. So he flies down to Cincy Friday for all the draft pick stuff, meet coaches, media interviews, etc....and misses his own draft party!
BTW: Why are Christian Ponder and Mark Sanchez better than Aaron Rodgers? Because last year both successfully completed their TD passes to Julius Peppers. -
05-04-2015, 10:28 AMTheSultanQuote:
Originally Posted by MUWhistler
"On Thursday and Friday, 110,000 people visited Draft Town, the free fan festival in Grant Park across the street from the theater where the draft was held. On Saturday, larger crowds were expected when selections in the fourth through seventh rounds were announced at the festival. The crowds far exceeded the league’s original estimates.
Many fans who came to Chicago were from N.F.L. cities within driving distance — Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Green Bay, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Minneapolis and St. Louis — giving the draft a Midwestern feel."
So it seems to me that you have those (such as IWB and Nich) that miss the traditions of the New York draft because they experienced them and enjoyed them. But this "new way" of doing things was a way to open the door to more people, and sacrificed traditions as a side-effect. -
05-04-2015, 10:31 AMTheSultan
BTW, here is another reason why it won't switch back from the Thursday - Saturday format.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...medium=twitter
"The growth of the NFL Draft into a ratings bonanza has been well documented. In 2001, ESPN earned a 2.1 rating for Day 1 coverage of the event. That grew a full point to 3.1 by 2004 and to 3.8 by 2006. After a three-year lull from 2007-09, the NFL’s decision to move Day 1 to a Thursday night sent the numbers soaring again. ESPN’s ratings boomed to a 4.6 in 2010 and then a 6.1 last year, with NFL Network’s simulcast adding an extra 0.7 and 1.5, respectively.
In the span of just 13 years, ratings for Day 1 of the draft grew a whopping 262 percent — from 2001’s middling 2.1 to last year’s approximate 7.6."