Some need a reality check.

Arizona St RPI 82
Tennessee RPI 99
Georgia Tech RPI 121

Providence RPI 21

And this team has regressed?

I can't wait until the season is over too, not because of our players who are giving their full effort out there, or because of our coach whose livelihood is Marquette basketball, but because our fans need to cut it out. I get that people need to vent. Fine. But we are undersized, we have only had 8,7, or even 6 healthy scholarship players, our veteran guys are role players at best, we have a rookie coach, our most talented guys are essentially in their first year playing college hoops, and we play in the second toughest conference in America. Who here is really surprised by what we see on the court?

I keep reading how we are not tough, how Fischer isn't tough enough blah blah blah. Have any of you guys played in the post? Do you know how tiring that is? Just going body to body with a post player tires you out. Fischer is the only guy we have on the team who can do that. Steve Taylor tries hard, but he's undersized and quite frankly, he's just a guy out there. Juan Anderson is not a post player. Everyone else on the team is small. We do not have the right kind of talent right now. We don't even have enough guys to practice 5 on 5. Who the heck does Fischer play against in practice. It certainly is not 7'2 Chukwu. That's who 6'9 Harris gets to play against. That's not counting 7' Derosiers are 6'8 Bentil or 6'7, 6'7... What exactly do you wants us to do? Do you guys know how big of a difference that is? Some are comparing this to Buzz's team that was tiny. There are a couple huge differences with that team. First of all, those were veteran guys. Second, all those guys could shoot! We don't have that.

Consider this. I am a guard. Most effective guards are able to beat a defender 1 on 1. When you play basketball, you're not even considering how you beat the guy in front of you. You locate the help defense. You think about how they are going to play you. If I am looking at Marquette, after I beat my first defender, all I have to really look for is Luke. That's the help defender who is going to change my shot or I will have problems shooting over. The thing is, Luke can't even play that aggressively because he's the only f'in big guy we have! He can't aggressively go after a block or aggressively go after a rebound. Once he's out of the game, we are a completely different team. In contrast, I am looking at a team with 6'11 and 6'11 out there as help defenders. I'm not even considering a drive unless it's off a quick ball reversal. We don't have that.

I'm watching the game right now. I've been running a tournament and giving basketball workouts all day. So, I have to watch on DVR. At halftime, I came on to check out the board and I've come across this thread. I know it has been a long season for Marquette fans but I'm going to take you through this sequence of game film to tell you what I think.

18:21 left in the second half and we are in a 1-3-1. We've got Taylor, Juan Anderson, Derrick Wilson, Carlino, and Duane Wilson in there. Just think about that lineup, guys, and let that sink in.
So, Providence swings the ball pretty easily, because we have no height on the wings. Ball goes up and we have Derrick Wilson and Carlino on the weak side trying to rebound. Taylor was effective boxing his guy out. Juan was on top closing out. Derrick was boxing out Chukwu but he's 7'2 and he jumps straight up and grabs the rebound. Some who are questioning the coaching might say, what are we doing in a 1-3-1? Well, we are changing up the defense because they already figured out the zone. We trying to make them adjust to how we are playing. Juan has to play the top, because in a 1-3-1 you want to try to cut the floor in half and the only guy we have that can do that is Juan. That leaves our midgets for the other 3 spots. Most coaches will put their point guard on the bottom because they need to close out to the corners. As for the wings, considering who we have, that's where you play them.

They reload and our guys are diving on the ground for loose balls. We're down 44-29, our Big East season has been rough, yet we still have guys flying all over the place for loose balls. That tells me that Wojo has not lost this team. That's coaching.

17:52 and after a tied up ball, we get the ball. Providence is in a zone. So, we have Juan Anderson and Steve Taylor in at post. Derrick Wilson is at point. Let that sink in. Derrick dribbles over and Carlino circles behind and gets a wide open look. Duke works on those movements in practice all the time. One of the guard breakdown drills against the zone are those same exact movements. It was a good open look, Carlino was just leaning too much and missed it. But it was a good possession. Taylor flashed high to occupy the top guy on the zone. Derrick attacked into the gamp on the left to suck in the bottom guy in the zone and it left no one to guard Carlino. Still, Juan fought for the rebound, got shoved and it's still Marquette ball. 6'6 215 Juan Anderson bodied up on 6'8 230 Bentil who had to shove him out of the way. JJJ subs in for Derrick.

17:31 Marquette ball. Ball gets reversed twice, Carlino stares down Juan Anderson in the high post and throws it away. Carlino fouls Dunn in transition which was a good foul. Now we are in a 2-3 zone. Wojo saw that we have tough rebounding matches in the 1-3-1 so he subbed in JJJ and went 2-3. Good adjustment. Juan, showing good leadership, huddles up the team. Providence is disorganized for a few seconds, gets organized, Bentil flashes to the high post and gets a shot. Taylor boxes out 7'2 Chukwu, Duane goes for the rebound, but 6'8 Bentil out jumps him and gets the reload. Neither Carlino nor Duane boxed him out. So, Taylor scraps and challenges 6'8 Bentil's shot, 6'6 tries to move 7'2 Chukwu out of the way but he doesn't budge. He has the ball underneath the basket and with a good pivot, he goes reverse and he scores.

16:51, we go on offense. Carolino has a nice ball feed to 6'7 Steve Taylor. He draws a crowd of defenders. Playing on his back is 7'2 Chukwu. 6'6 Henton is doubling him on the strong side. 6'3 Kris Dunn is digging in from the weak side top. 6'8 Bentil was digging in from the weak side bottom. So Taylor kicks it out back to Carlino which is a good pass. On the kick out, both Bentil and Dunn close out to Duane Wilson, since Duane has hit a bunch of threes on them. That leaves 6'6 Juan Anderson all alone underneath the basket on the weak side. Carolina lobs it to him. But 7'2 Chukwu and 6'8 Bentil closes the space easily. Juan pump fakes and tries to draw contact and a weak foul is called. Juan goes 1 for 2.

16:29 left. Clock goes from 16:29 straight to 16:12. That was strange. Henton flashes and seals around the midpost and scores easily over Taylor. We got caught ball watching. Taylor needs to bump Henton so that he can't flash that easily. Immediately, Fischer is sent to the scorers table.

16:04 Marquette ball. Juan screens the top part of the 2-3 zone, which is a good screen. Carlino doesn't attack, which he should have. Instead, he reverses to Duane who has a nice post feed to Taylor. The lane was open for a post feed because of the Juan screen. 6'7 Taylor can't finish over 7'2 Chukwu who just raises his arms straight up.

15:39 Providence attacks in transition. Taylor had to challenge the shot. JJJ doesn't box out on the weak side. But, he was sealed effectively by Lomomba on the drive. Offensive rebound on Providence since Lomomba tips it. Taylor challenges the 2nd shot and Carlino grabs the board.

15:32 Carlino pushes the ball in transition and gets slowed down. He reverses to Juan who was trailing who dribble handoffs to JJJ. Carlino and Duane exchange on the weak side. JJJ reverses the ball to Duane who hits Juan who flashed to the high post. He draws 7'2 Chukwu in with a nice pump fake and he rips through and drives. He throws agreat rugby pass dish off to Taylor who is in great position in the alley. Henton who is playing on the strong side bottom of the 2-3 slides over to cut him off. Plus 7'2 Chukwu is waiting. Since Taylor drew 2 defenders, he kicks it out to Carlino. Marquette passes it around the horn in a 3 pass reversal. Juan gets a wide open look in the corner. That was a pretty possession. 9 straight effective passes. Ball was reversed twice, went inside, got kicked out and reversed again. You can't ask for a better possession than that. Juan missed the wide open 3. Providence gets the rebound. Our guys are slow to get back and they score coast to coast. That's deflating. MU gets a great possession, can't score, and Providence gets an easy bucket.

14:52 Marquette ball. Juan sets a high ball screen on the zone, which is a great play. Now Duane can attack the bottom guy of the zone where you have a 2 on 1 advantage. Providence guy fights through the screen and bumps Duane. Maybe a foul but it would have been a soft call. No call and Duane turns it over.

TV Timeout

14:51. MU is in a 1-3-1 again. Cohen on top. Fischer in the middle. Derrick on the bottom. Carlino and Derrick on the wings. Once again, that's a small lineup. However, we just don't have the options. We actually look like we have a ton of energy on defense which is good, coming out of the timeout. We effectively cut the floor in half, which is what you want in a 1-3-1. Benton shoots a tough runner of Fischer. Besides maybe Duane, I don't think we have anyone that can hit that shot.

14:14 WE get the ball into the high post to Derrick. He kicks it out to Carlino who has a great look at a 3. He misses. It was a good possession. Inside out. Carlino moved well without the ball by lifting up when the ball when into the high post which is why he was open for three. Good find by Derrick who flashed into the high post. Providence gets the long rebound, goes on the break and Benton scores easy on a pull up over Derrick who is trying to draw the charge.

13:47, we get the ball to Derrick who is in the high post again. He kicks it to JJJ in the corner who gets an open look for 3. I didn't like the shot. I don't think JJJ should settle for those. There is a reason why he is open on the corner. He could have driven baseline easily. Fischer had his guy sealed off too. So, it would have been a 2 on 1. 7'2 would have either had to fight over Fischer to challenge JJJ's drive who could have dumped to Fischer or he could have stayed behind JJJ and hope he doesn't get an easy drive and help comes from somewhere else. Not a sure fire score still for Marquette, considering 7'2 is in the lane, but definitely the better play. What is interesting is that with Carlino, JJJ, Cohen, Fischer, and Derrick out there, we have to use Derrick as a post player in our zone offense. He is the guy flashing to the high post. It's a smart move because Derrick can't shoot from the outside anyway and is able to pass from the high post, especially since the defense doesn't care to bump him or deny him the high post. We send three back for transition defense. All three guards are getting back on defense on the shot. Only Fischer is on the offensive boards. Still, Dunn tries to score in transition and throws up a wild shot. We get the rebound.

13:40 Marquette ball. Wilson They don’t really respect Derrick in transition and don’t guard him. He drives and has an easy lane for 2 points. That was our first bucket in play since 17:31. It was our first points since 16:31. We’ve had couple good possessions and good looks for the majority of those possessions. Carlino had a bad turnover and Duane had bad turnover. JJJ had an ill advised shot.

13:20 We are back in a 2-3 zone. 6’9 Tyler Harris scores over Fischer. It was a nice cut into the alley. Cohen might have gotten caught too high, but I don’t think so because he had to respect Benton out there. Harris has a nice spin move into a jump hook. We don’t have anyone who can make the play he just made. You had 7’2 Chukwu flashing to the high post and Fischer had to respect him there. Then 6’9 Harris flashed to the low post and Fischer was caught between them. Carlino was probably slow sliding from the top to the wing and so Cohen was slow getting back. They definitely didn’t have the same energy that they showed in the 10301. I guess being down 22 will do that to you.

13:12 Derrick Wilson is playing in the post again. Guys, this is almost comical what we have to do and how creative we have to get. Providence has 7’2 and 6’9 out there. 6’9 is a sub they brought in. We counter with Fischer and Derrick Wilson. Still, Derrick scores. I think Providence was thinking, “What the heck is going on? Why is this dude playing the post?” It’s working though. Derrick sets a high ball screen, Carlino attacks so he draw the other top defender. He passes to the Cohen on the wing. Because of the ball screen and drive, you now have a 2 on 1 with Coehn and JJJ on the bottom wing defender, Benton. Fischer ducks in and occupies 7’2 Chukwu, who is the center defender. Benton has to make a decision and drops down to guard JJJ. That leaves a passing lane open for Cohen. Derrick slides down in front of 7’2 Chukwu, who Fischer occupied and gets an easy post feed. Derrick scores over Chukwu. Great offensive possession. DERRICK WILSON IS PLAYING IN THE POST!

12:35 We get a stop on defense. Providence takes a shot from the high post. It was a fade away. Not a bad shot but it was rushed and he was leaning. Benton was flashing into the high post. Harris wanted to instead and told Benton to leave that area clear. On the ball reversal, Harris cut to the weakside underneath the zone then flashed to the high post. He knew he could get a shot there. I think he got too excited because it worked out for him and rushed his shot. He leaned and faded away as a result.

12:32 Marquette ball. Lob pass to Fischer in transition, It was a good look but needed more air on the pass. Tipped out of bounds. In bounds play. Then on the ball reversal, Carlino drives into 2 defenders and leaves his feet with no where to go. Bad play from Carlino. He should just back dribble out of there. Instead, he tries to kick and gets intercepted easy. JJJ hustles back hard on defense on a driving Dunn and forces him to miss the shot. Cohen gets the rebound and we are going the other way.

12:12 Marquette in transition. JJJ gets the pass ahead from Cohen and sees an lane to drive. Ball gets tipped from him but Calino is there. He drives and scores over 7’2 Chukwu. We still do a good job in transition. It’s just that with our lack of size, we don’t get that many chances to get a rebound and go. Even when we get a rebound. Those rebounds are challenged since teams know they can hit the boards hard on us due to our lack of size. So we can’t cleanly get a rebound and get into transition.

12:03 Providence ball. Stupid offensive foul on Chukwu. Pushes Carlino in the back in the high post.


I could go on if you guys want me too. But what I see are our guys are still fighting. Coaching adjustments are being made. Who else puts Derrick in the post and gets points out of him? Our guys are moving the ball and getting good shots. Sure, there are some mistakes, but what team doesn't make mistakes? When I see people complaining about the coaching, they are just describing what happened. I don't see anyone offering any alternative solutions. What exactly do you want us to do?

Crisco,

I'm not sure what your point is. No one has written anything about players not trying or putting forth maximum effort. No one is denying that we are undersized, inexperienced, and short-handed. In fact, everyone seems to be in agreement on those three points.

More than once you point out who we had on the floor and ask us to let those line ups "sink in." They have sunk in. We do not have a roster that is talented enough to be competitive game in and game out. There is a definite talent gap between MU and most of the other BE teams.

The debate appears to be on whether or not Wojo has done a good enough job with what he has to work with. Personally, I have no problem with the job Wojo has done. In fact, there have been numerous times this season when I was impressed with how competitive this talent-deficient, experience-deficient (percentage-wise), depth-deficient, size-deficient group has done, right up through the end of January.

The bottom line is that MU is in last place and has won only 1 of its last 12 games. Injuries to Carlino and Juan or no injuries to Carlino and Juan, the "reality" in your "reality check" is that this team is awful. Teams that lose 11 out of 12 games generally are awful. Were my initial expectations delusional? Maybe. I figured we'd fight it out for sixth or seventh in the conference. I had no illusions about an NCAA invitation.

Crisco, you've been there. In fact, you are/were there with your team this season. I've been there - had teams that were talent-deficient relative to the competition. That's where MU is now. And it is painful to watch. And that is very, very real.

Thanks for putting in the time to give a much needed point of view to counter the prevailing negative attitude about this team. While this group is not winning like we would all hope the situation is not as dire as most think. I continue to be optimistic about our prospects moving forward. And I give our guys a lot of credit for their efforts in a situation where a lot of teams would simply give up by now.

The point, Phantom, is that people are complaining with without any real point. No offense, but you wrote that the team has regressed and there was no player or ball movement. I point out that there is a reason why it appears that the team has regressed. Just look at the RPI's of Tennessee, Georgia Tech, and Arizona State compared to Providence. I broke down game possessions and showed that there was effective ball movement and player movement. Many are questioning the coaching, especially MU88. I point out how the team has been well coached and what adjustments are being made. Its not the coaching. Our pieces don't fit. We had Derrick Wilson playing in the post!

If you take away the points that you made about Tennessee, ball movement, and player movement, and just say that the team is awful, I am saying that you are just venting, pointing out the obvious, and not giving any alternative solutions. I am telling you why we are awful.

As for my school team this year, I am proud of them and I told them that. With my club team, I am coaching the top talent in the state. With my school team, I am coaching girls that were treating basketball like a social club at the start of the year. Am I a better coach when I am with my club team and our record was 26-6 and we won 4 tournaments? Or am a bad coach when two hours earlier, I am with my school team and they are "awful"? It's obvious that I am the same coach, correct? In reality, I believe I did one of my best coaching jobs with my school team. I dropped down from coaching high school to coach this middle school team, partly because I wanted more time to spend building my club, and partly because I wanted to get our middle school kids ready for high school. That goal is accomplished. That team had never had a real coach before. We were moved up a division, even though the team was barely competitive in the lower division. But since I was coaching them, the school felt that they could be moved up. For outsiders, that team may appear to be awful. But I asked them a question at the middle of the season, if they regretted moving up a division. They told me that they don't at all. They did not want to settle, staying in the B league. Moving up has taken them out of their comfort zone and has forced them to become better players. That's a winning attitude, and that's what it's all about.

At the start of the season, we couldn't even cross half court. By the end of the season, we looked like a real basketball team. We were competitive in games against teams that were 6 and 7 places higher than us in the standings and only lost in the last possessions. The girls were challenging themselves and each other in practice. They have a solid base of knowledge and skill for the ones that want to continue in high school, which is important at our school since we are small and only have one feeder. Was that team awful? Certainly they are not as good as my club team who would beat most varsity teams in the state even though they are freshmen. What is your meaning of awful? Personally, I think those girls have shown that they are winners. I was sad when our season ended. It was not painful to watch.

Just like Wojo's team. They effectively attacked the zone. They had near perfect possessions. One possession had 9 effective consecutive passes with two ball reversals, inside out passes, then another 3 pass around the horn reversal to a wide open 3. They just couldn't knock down the shot. The coaches place Derrick in the post and got 4 points out of that in a short amount of time. The off the ball movement in a zone was great and got two wide open looks at three to our best three point shooter. He just couldn't knock down the shot. We were effectively setting ball screens on the zone, which led to 2 on 1's. I saw ball movement. I saw player movement. I see improvement. I see players working their tail off even though they are down 20. To me, that is not awful. The record maybe awful. I get the need to vent. I'm telling you why the record is awful. That's the point.

Never before have I seen such pessimism on this site. The posts over the last few days I thought I was reading 'scoop.

Thanks for bringing some much needed sanity to this board Crisco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phantom Warrior

Crisco,

I'm not sure what your point is. No one has written anything about players not trying or putting forth maximum effort. No one is denying that we are undersized, inexperienced, and short-handed. In fact, everyone seems to be in agreement on those three points.

More than once you point out who we had on the floor and ask us to let those line ups "sink in." They have sunk in. We do not have a roster that is talented enough to be competitive game in and game out. There is a definite talent gap between MU and most of the other BE teams.

The debate appears to be on whether or not Wojo has done a good enough job with what he has to work with. Personally, I have no problem with the job Wojo has done. In fact, there have been numerous times this season when I was impressed with how competitive this talent-deficient, experience-deficient (percentage-wise), depth-deficient, size-deficient group has done, right up through the end of January.

The bottom line is that MU is in last place and has won only 1 of its last 12 games. Injuries to Carlino and Juan or no injuries to Carlino and Juan, the "reality" in your "reality check" is that this team is awful. Teams that lose 11 out of 12 games generally are awful. Were my initial expectations delusional? Maybe. I figured we'd fight it out for sixth or seventh in the conference. I had no illusions about an NCAA invitation.

Crisco, you've been there. In fact, you are/were there with your team this season. I've been there - had teams that were talent-deficient relative to the competition. That's where MU is now. And it is painful to watch. And that is very, very real.

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Phantom, let me start by saying I generally respect and appreciate your opinions on this and Dodds' board. And I really appreciate the in depth analysis you do that I personally would never take the time to research. That being said, I really found your last thread offensive. This team in no way, shape, or form is awful. Any team that leaves 100% out on the court each and every game cannot EVER be described as "awful". Outside of a 4-5 minute stretch at Butler, I can't remember a minute this season that our guys have not been giving their all. Now I know that that in and of itself does not make them -not- awful.

Ok. Marquette is in last place. In the 2nd best rated league in the country. They have been mostly competitive with a depleted roster. They lost in overtime to the 2nd and 3rd place teams and actually beat the team in fourth place(Butler,Georgetown and Providence). That my friend is not awful. Just because YOU had higher expectations for them and they did not reach those expectations, that does not make them "awful".

I was at the game yesterday and sat behind the bench. There was nothing awful about the attitudes of our coaches or players. Never once, even when down by 24 did they ever think this game was over. Did they get their asses kicked on the boards-- yes. That does not make them "awful". An "awful" team would have packed it up and played out the string at that point. What I did see up close and personal was the effort and sheer exhaustion when the guys came back to the bench. I saw the frustration on their faces when they missed a big shot or allowed an important basket. I saw every single guy(including the walk ons) giving maximum effort in the jobs they were supposed to be doing. And that attitude got them back into the game. Pretty sure an "awful" team would not have cut that lead to 5 points near the end.

I talked to Juan after the game and asked him how bad he was hurting. He said, "So you can tell I'm still hurt? I'm trying to lace them up every game for my teammates, because I need to be there for those guys. They are my brothers. But yeah, I'm hurting pretty bad." That, my friend, is not the personality of an "awful" team.

There wasn't a second in this game that Duane Wilson thought our team was out of this game. That kid's fire gives me hope that he can be a leader on this squad going forward. You couldn't see half of how focused he was, especially in the 2nd half. Kid wasn't going to allow this team to lose. Again, certainly not the attitude of a player on an "awful" team.

Yes we are physically out-manned this year. Yes, that sometimes makes us look bad.Yes, sometimes our coaches make wrong decisions. Yes, some of those bad decisions make us look bad. We all get that. Sorry the team hasn't lived up to YOUR expectations.

Frankly, the only thing "awful" about this season is the attitude of some of Marquette's so-called fans.

Bravo!! Best post I've read in a long time!

It's a tough year. VERY tough. But we are watching the birth of a culture here. It's not an overnight thing, but
our program will be better for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

Phantom, let me start by saying I generally respect and appreciate your opinions on this and Dodds' board. And I really appreciate the in depth analysis you do that I personally would never take the time to research. That being said, I really found your last thread offensive. This team in no way, shape, or form is awful. Any team that leaves 100% out on the court each and every game cannot EVER be described as "awful". Outside of a 4-5 minute stretch at Butler, I can't remember a minute this season that our guys have not been giving their all. Now I know that that in and of itself does not make them -not- awful.

Ok. Marquette is in last place. In the 2nd best rated league in the country. They have been mostly competitive with a depleted roster. They lost in overtime to the 2nd and 3rd place teams and actually beat the team in fourth place(Butler,Georgetown and Providence). That my friend is not awful. Just because YOU had higher expectations for them and they did not reach those expectations, that does not make them "awful".

I was at the game yesterday and sat behind the bench. There was nothing awful about the attitudes of our coaches or players. Never once, even when down by 24 did they ever think this game was over. Did they get their asses kicked on the boards-- yes. That does not make them "awful". An "awful" team would have packed it up and played out the string at that point. What I did see up close and personal was the effort and sheer exhaustion when the guys came back to the bench. I saw the frustration on their faces when they missed a big shot or allowed an important basket. I saw every single guy(including the walk ons) giving maximum effort in the jobs they were supposed to be doing. And that attitude got them back into the game. Pretty sure an "awful" team would not have cut that lead to 5 points near the end.

I talked to Juan after the game and asked him how bad he was hurting. He said, "So you can tell I'm still hurt? I'm trying to lace them up every game for my teammates, because I need to be there for those guys. They are my brothers. But yeah, I'm hurting pretty bad." That, my friend, is not the personality of an "awful" team.

There wasn't a second in this game that Duane Wilson thought our team was out of this game. That kid's fire gives me hope that he can be a leader on this squad going forward. You couldn't see half of how focused he was, especially in the 2nd half. Kid wasn't going to allow this team to lose. Again, certainly not the attitude of a player on an "awful" team.

Yes we are physically out-manned this year. Yes, that sometimes makes us look bad.Yes, sometimes our coaches make wrong decisions. Yes, some of those bad decisions make us look bad. We all get that. Sorry the team hasn't lived up to YOUR expectations.

Frankly, the only thing "awful" about this season is the attitude of some of Marquette's so-called fans.

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Awesome insight. Thanks for sharing!

Great stuff Crisco.

Yes the roster make up isn't very good, but making it look even worse is the Big East is pretty deep this season.
There are only 10 teams in the league, and right now CBS sports has 6 of the teams going to the big dance, none of which is in the last four in slot.

Are we a good team, not really, but we have already played 11 conference games against teams projected to be in the tourney.
There are only two other teams in our league with an under .500 overall record.

We are not very good, we are short handed, the team's skill set doesn't mesh well, but while we are down the conference as a whole is having a very good year.

In a lot of games this year I look at how I think we would do with Henry E, another guard, and with the further development of Duane W, Cohen, JJJ and Luke. Henry E and Luke could be fun to watch, especially with Taylor and Heldt providing further depth. Another guard, and improvements from Cohen, Wilson, JJJ, etc and next year might be back to winning and NCAA hopes.

I have been telling everyone who asks me, most of whom know I am a die hard MU fan that they have not given up and are playing well, but they don't have all the tools...or some of those tools are not honed yet. They think I am nuts when I say I am proud of this team.

Bob

You're right to be proud. Sometimes, the best coaching jobs do not happen when a coach has more talent than the competition it's when he does more with less. That's exactly what Wojo is doing this year - making due with the players he has right now and doing his best to make them play 40 minutes. I'd like to see this year's COY do that because I bet he comes from a program with a full roster leaving the talent and experience discussions for later.

Well said Crisco. When you said 2 of our 3 seniors are role players at best....that is a very complimentary statement, others might have a harsher analysis. Fischer, Duane have been good, but this is their first year playing college basketball. JJJ has been good and bad, but also his first year playing college basketball. Sandy Cohen is a true freshman, he has shown good and bad, as expected. Carlino has been what we expected, he can light it up. Steve Taylor should be better by now, but the knee issue seems to have really set him back.

That's our team, playing games with 8 guys, sometimes 7 or 6 in a very good conference....what can we expect? Especially that this late in the season, people can still get so worked up over a loss as if it is surprising. For some reason, I still enjoy watching this team play. Seeing Duane, Fischer, moments of Cohen and JJJ, Carlino can be fun to watch at times.

At this point, if Juan is truly under 50%, I would sit him this entire week, get him as healthy as possible for the Big East tourney and "let it all hang out."

Crisco,

Of course a team's record does not determine whether or not someone did a good coaching job. The most talented team I ever coached had a 21-game winning streak and ended up 21-1, but it was probably the worst job of coaching in my career. On the other hand, I had a team two years ago with below-average talent/ability, and ended up with a record of 10-8, but that may have been the best coaching job I've ever done.

And I'm certainly not saying you should not be proud of your team this year. Pride in a team is a consequence of a whole lot more than its record. I was extremely proud of my team two years ago. I was not particularly proud of the group that went 21-1.

As far as the views of other posters, I guess I just see things differently. "Awful" (with respect to performance) to me has nothing to do with effort or attitude. I took piano lessons both as a kid and as an adult. I really wanted to play well. I wanted to "make music." I worked as hard as I could during lessons. I practiced hours and hours and hours. But wanting and wishing did not make it so. In terms of playing piano, I was, and still am, awful. My piano instructors would have said I had a great attitude and that I put forth tremendous effort. That didn't change my level of playing.

I wish I was one of those people who have a knack for fixing things around the house, but I'm not. I'm much more likely to make matters worse than improve them. But it's not a result of lack of effort. I do the best I can. And it's not due to a poor attitude. But the outcome, the reality, is that when it comes to repairing things, I am pretty damn awful.

For those offended by my use of the term "awful," would "mediocre" be more acceptable? How about "well below average"? I am not knocking any individual kids; nor am I knocking the coaches. Nor do the reasons underlying my assessment of "awful" really matter. I understand the reasons and can list them right along with everybody else.

I am curious. Take the 70-75 "high-major" programs. Where do we rank among those 70-75 teams. What percentile?

Phantom....
Everybody knows this team isn't good....there is no argument on that.....but why do you feel the need to revisit the issue time after time? I think the push back you are getting is because it seems like you are looking for somebody to blame.

It has been a bad year.....we all get it....do we have to define how bad it has been by where we rank among the 75 high major teams? Really? For what purpose?

Time to turn the page and look forward not back

I said at the beginning of the year that this was the season of zero expectations. Buckle up, keep the hopes low, and enjoy the process. We're clearly not a top team this year. But while some of those early wins may have given us a false sense of hope, this is just a case of reality setting in. We have some guys that are good supporting cast members best suited to come off the bench (Anderson, Derrick). We have some guys that simply haven't shown themselves to be consistent high-major talents (Taylor, Johnson). We have some guys that have promise but are just too young to give us that night in, night out performance (Duane, Fischer, Sandy). And we have one guy that is a legit high-major scorer, though on a good team Carlino is probably a second or third option.

And we have no depth behind them. On a good team, guys like Anderson and Derrick would play sparingly. Guys like Taylor and Johnson wouldn't play at all. But we don't have the depth for that, so those guys average around 100 minutes between them when healthy. Half our minutes are going to guys that are probably at best supporting cast members. They play hard. They compete and they don't give up, but this is the roster we are left with. They are the core of the roster Buzz gave Wojo.

To answer the question, I'd say probably in the 10th to 20th percentile. There are some teams that I'd put below us, but not a ton. I'd say there are 8-10 teams we are better than (one of them beat Wisconsin) and another 8-10 teams we are about on par with. That's not good, but it's not terrible, and when you have no expectations, it's fine. It's all about the process. I've seen Duane progress a ton. I've seen Derrick and Juan play at a higher level than most thought they were capable of. I've seen Carlino put up a career year despite everyone in the building KNOWING he's getting the ball and shooting. I've seen Jajuan improve by leaps and bounds (with occasional stumbles mixed in).

If you just look at the record, it's disappointing. But if you look at the team's progress and accept that this is not a high-major roster yet most nights they are competing with high-major teams, I see a lot of reason for optimism. I can't wait to see what Wojo does with a roster of his own guys and time to develop these kids. The glimmers are there. Even in defeat, you can see the start of something good. You just have to temper your expectations to zero and forget about the teams we beat a few months ago. Fool's gold, they weren't very good either. The real gold is yet to come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Markedman

Phantom....
Everybody knows this team isn't good....there is no argument on that.....but why do you feel the need to revisit the issue time after time? I think the push back you are getting is because it seems like you are looking for somebody to blame.

It has been a bad year.....we all get it....do we have to define how bad it has been by where we rank among the 75 high major teams? Really? For what purpose?

Time to turn the page and look forward not back

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Thank you Mark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Markedman

Phantom....
Everybody knows this team isn't good....there is no argument on that.....but why do you feel the need to revisit the issue time after time? I think the push back you are getting is because it seems like you are looking for somebody to blame.

It has been a bad year.....we all get it....do we have to define how bad it has been by where we rank among the 75 high major teams? Really? For what purpose?

Time to turn the page and look forward not back

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Yep. Now, if next year's recruiting class was suspec, I would be worried. But we have a good group with the prospect of 2 or 3 more. Phantom, lighten up.

I finally was able to watch the last 10 minutes of that game. That team did not quit. When things aren't going your way, there are two ways you can go. You can either whine about it, make excuses, and give up, or you can fight back. These players worked their whole life to play basketball at Marquette, spending hours in the gym when kids their own age were fooling around. They're working their tails off at Marquette while their classmates are partying. They didn't quit in this game. Duane Wilson got pissed off and lit a fire in that team. He spoke up. A coach loves it when it comes from the players. IWB told us that something like that would have never happened last year. In the timeout before that, Wojo was firing up the team, trying to get them to show enthusiasm. Now he has his player giving the same speech. That means Wojo is having an effect on his team. Despite all these losses, Wojo still has their ear. I don't know about you guys, but I love that. I believe that game was another step in the right direction. You have a young kid not only challenging his teammates but going out there and performing. He's showing them what he was screaming about in the huddle. Smee, I'm proud of them too.

Another question to ask is, if the best college basketball coach ever (whomever that might be) was coaching this team, how many more wins would you realistically think they could have achieved? I hardly think Wojo is perfect, but let's be realistic here.

Maybe none, maybe a couple. There is no way to know. There have been seven close games in league play that down the stretch could have gone either way. We won 2 of those and lost 5. Would a different defense or a different play call or a different substitution have made a difference in the outcome? Maybe but maybe not.

The reality is that we don't have many play-makers who rise to the occasion and make the crucial play - a basket, a steal, a block, a tough rebound, whatever. On offense, you need someone who can create his own shot at the end of a game - someone who can will the team to a win. Better if you have two guys, or even three, who are willing and able to take on that challenge. The closest we have to that kind of a player is Carlino, but he is not very adept at creating his own shot.

We also don't have that dynamic playmaker who can create for teammates during crunch time.

To me, at the end of a close game, it's more about leadership on the court. It's not just who can handle the pressure, but who thrives on the pressure.

Maybe we would have been 4-3 in those seven games with a different coach, but maybe we would have been 1-6, or even 0-7. No way to tell.

Bottom line: three of a kind beat a pair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Another question to ask is, if the best college basketball coach ever (whomever that might be) was coaching this team, how many more wins would you realistically think they could have achieved? I hardly think Wojo is perfect, but let's be realistic here.

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There are a couple of losses that could have differently with better in-game/late game coaching. However, I believe that to be basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I believe that Wojo has fared very well in the tangible things that can be measured so far, and is well on track of getting the program back to where it belongs (and landing a top 5-10 player like Henry Ellenson can rapidly speed up that process). Also, I believe that his love and appreciation for Marquette is genuine, and it feels good to hear and see that after the preceding years of tumult from all parties.

I am curious. Take the 70-75 "high-major" programs. Where do we rank among those 70-75 teams. What percentile?

So I just looked at Pomeroy to get an unbiased answer to this question.

In the power conferences(not including the AAC) these are the teams that are rated lower then MU.

Washington
California
Nebraska
Texas Tech
Depaul
USC
Auburn
Miss State
Washington State
VPI
Missouri
Rutgers