High School State Tournament

I think Wisconsin should get rid of the divisions and just have one tournament and one state champion. Keep in mind that I am saying this from a girl's basketball perspective. However, I don't think the boy's side is much different. I have gone to a ton of high school basketball games this year. I have probably averaged 8 games a week. Usually, I am coaching my own high school team. However, since I have started my own AAU program, I wanted to have more time building it up. When I did both last year, I was drained. So, instead, I went around looking for players and supporting the ones that I already have. I am kind of surprised at the state of basketball as this year is the first year that I've seen this many prep games.

Watching the games, I can see that there are quality teams and quality programs and there are programs that for one reason or another, they are really bad. This happens regardless of division. For example, take a look at the Southeastern Conference for girls. I have a lot of Oak Creek girls on my team, so I went to a lot of their games. Their varsity won state last year. All three of their teams rolled through that conference. Oak Creek is an elite team. Franklin is solid. After that, the teams really struggle. It's the same thing with the City conference. You have teams that are really good and you have teams that struggle.

It might just because the AAU games are faster paced since there is a lot more talent on the floor, but there quality programs are tough to find. They are out there, but they are in different divisions. Teams like Oak Creek, Arrowhead, King, Mukwonago, and Germantown are great teams in Division 1. Cedarburg, Pewaukee, Pius, and New Berlin Eisenhower, from Division 2 are just as good as those teams, if not better. On the boy's side, I was surprised when I was told that Marquette High is going to win the Greater Metro because Brookfield Academy almost beat them, and BA is not even a top team in their regional. They are seeded first after a great Brown Deer team and a top Kettle Moraine Lutheran team. Then you have the really bad teams. There are teams that are bad, regardless of division. Those city teams or Southeastern teams get crushed by division 3 or 4 teams.

Wouldn't it be great to see all of these teams play each other at state to see who the best is? Kettle Moraine Lutheran only lost to DSHA by 8 or so points, and DSHA has the top player in the state. For the schools that are smaller and not as good, I'm not seeing how they are different than teams in division one that are not very good. You could have the higher seeds get a couple of byes in the tournament. Then, those small schools would still have competitive games in the first round or two. If I am a small school and I have a great class coming up, I am doing everything that I can to make my program better for that team. I'm improving my feeder system. I'm putting effort into my program. That will only make basketball better in Wisconsin. And wouldn't be great to see a small school make it to state? Then you can throw out all the multipliers and public school versus public school etc. There are few people who care won the Division Five state championship. I'm saying this as someone who came from a small school, but I'd love to see one big state tournament.

I am not sure one division is a good idea, but I do think less divisions would be better. Probably three would be best. I also think those divisions should be seeded better...maybe into four geographic quadrants? Right now I look at the brackets and teams are playing conference opponents in the first round or second rounds pretty regularly. Part of the tournament should be the chance for teams to play against teams they don't usually see.

I think the first step is to correct the seeding, and expand the seeding almost state wide within reason.

Look at the girls division.
According to Wissports.net, DSHA is the #2 ranked team in the state for D1.

Yet when looking at the bracket DSHA is in (there are 8 brackets for D1) they are the #3 seed. Really, the #2 team in the state is a #3 seed in their bracket?

In the D1 for girls there are 8 #1 seeds, 8 #2 seeds, etc, so at least 16 teams are seeded ahead of the #2 ranked team in the state. That is crazy.

How often in Wisconsin do you go to a game in round 3 and consider it as good or better than what will likely be played in the final four.

That is what I would like to see changed first.

The WIAA is run mostly by the smaller communities around the state, so no way the Cuba City type teams will move toward less state champs.

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Originally Posted by Goose85

I think the first step is to correct the seeding, and expand the seeding almost state wide within reason.

Look at the girls division.
According to Wissports.net, DSHA is the #2 ranked team in the state for D1.

Yet when looking at the bracket DSHA is in (there are 8 brackets for D1) they are the #3 seed. Really, the #2 team in the state is a #3 seed in their bracket?

In the D1 for girls there are 8 #1 seeds, 8 #2 seeds, etc, so at least 16 teams are seeded ahead of the #2 ranked team in the state. That is crazy.

How often in Wisconsin do you go to a game in round 3 and consider it as good or better than what will likely be played in the final four.

That is what I would like to see changed first.

The WIAA is run mostly by the smaller communities around the state, so no way the Cuba City type teams will move toward less state champs.

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I agree with everything you said, especially the bolded part. That region with DSHA is ridiculous. King, Riverside, and DSHA are all state worthy teams. On the other side, Oak Creek doesn't really have anyone.(Although the road is now tougher for them because they will be missing a key player.)

Those small schools control everything and they will only do things according to geography because pf that. I think it's clear who the top teams are. They know who they are because they schedule games against each other because of that. I'd love to see a guy like Mark Miller on a committee that seeds the top teams, regardless of geography. Then you go from there.

State wide seeding would be hard due to travel issues. I think if they could find a way to get eight teams at state, over three divisions, you could seed things more fairly across the state without being so burdensome travel-wise. I can't figure out how you schedule 21 games at one location however.

I think you could make it work with the travel. The top seeds get home games. The teams that struggle typically don't bring fans. So many of these school travel far distances for games. Take a look at the Wisconsin Little Ten. A team like Wisconsin Lutheran travels to Beaver Dam, Oconomowoc, Hartford, West Bend... Plus, I would think the top teams would travel farther rather than play a tougher team closer to home.

First round game, Brook Central v. Brook East. Play twice in league and in first round - I can't stand that.

You could seed state wide. If all four 1 seeds are from a certain area of the state, just make sure the 16 seeds and 8/9 seeds are too. That way there is only possible travel for some of the remaining 16.

If you properly seed the top level spots, the 8-16 can be slotted for more travel concerns.

I just can't stand seeing the lopsided brackets and conference teams playing each other in the first round, even the second round.

I have some girls on BE and BC. I was sitting with their parents at the game and they said this doesn't even feel like a playoff game. It just feels like a regular conference matchup.

Bring back the 8 teams in D1 schools to Madison!

I'd go to 4 divisions with 8 at D1 and 4 at the other divisions.

I'm not sure if anyone follows the girls, but there were some crazy scores today. BC beat King. King was on a bit of a slide but that final is surprising. New Berlin West beat Ike. So West took out Pewaukee and Ike, which are two very good teams. West is on a roll.

To go continue with some themes in this thread. Cudahy was seeded first in their region. They finished 3rd in the Woodland East. Meanwhile, New Berlin Ike, Pewaukee, and New Berlin West are duking it on in their own region. They are probably all better teams than Cudahy.

Pewaukee beat Oak Creek. They beat Arrowhead. Oak Creek and Arrowhead are still alive. Pewaukee is sitting at home.

Put the top teams in different regionals. Go down to one division.

3 divisions for me. WI just not that big a state. 3 is enough.

Doesn't this also come down to football? In basketball you could have some competition with small schools against big schools, especially with one prodigious player. But in football, there is no way the D5 schools could compete with Arrowhead, Homestead, or DC Everest.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Doesn't this also come down to football? In basketball you could have some competition with small schools against big schools, especially with one prodigious player. But in football, there is no way the D5 schools could compete with Arrowhead, Homestead, or DC Everest.

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Football has seven divisions. You can treat them differently.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Football has seven divisions. You can treat them differently.

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California has 7 divisions for football. Wisconsin needs 3 at the max.

Does anyone know where to find enrollment numbers? If you have 3 divisions, I'm curious to see if a school like New Berlin West would be in Division 1. Using 2013 numbers, it looks like they'd be a D2 school. Pewaukee definitely would be a D2 school and all year, they've been a top team regardless of division. Pius would be a D2 school. Brown Deer, who has a great boys team would be in D2. Plus, with 3 divisions, you still have people complaining about the private schools. Dominican, for sure, would not be in Division 1. Keep in mind that I am saying this as someone who has coached in a private school.

I wrote about 5 changes I'd like to see regarding high school basketball in Wisconsin for WisSports.net a few weeks ago.

Besides going to 18-minute halves, I would much prefer an 8-8-8-8 setup. 4 divisions of 8 teams. Use the Fieldhouse for games along with the Kohl Center on Wednesday, then have the remaining games at the Kohl Center.

Both Iowa and Minnesota have an 8-8-8-8 format. And Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois and Michigan have 4 divisions. Wisconsin does not need 5.

Can the Fieldhouse still host basketball? Or would it require something as simple as lifting up the volleyball floor and replacing it with a new basketball floor. Or would they have to use the Coliseum or whatever it is called now?