OT RIP James Foley

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08-19-2014, 04:45 PM
Markedman

OT RIP James Foley

Photo journalist and MU grad....beheaded by ISIS......such evil is hard to comprehend....

Jim Swift ‏@bomble 23m
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James Foley was 39/40, from New Hampshire and a graduate of Marquette. #RIP
08-19-2014, 05:18 PM
CaribouJim

Holy crap - Time Magazine just had an article in their latest issue on the reporters still being held throughout the world by @$$wipe groups like ISIS and he was the first pic they showed. Horrible news. ISIS and their ilk live in a parallel universe.
08-19-2014, 06:49 PM
MUwarrior1090

Hopefully they determine the video is not authentic, but I'm not hopeful. RIP and prayers for his family.
08-19-2014, 08:13 PM
kneelb4zerg

At the risk of venturing into the political realm,there is evil in this world, and much of it is associated with Muslim religious extremists. Would that our current Commander-in-Chief weren't so equivocal in this regard.
08-19-2014, 08:19 PM
TheSultan

Quote:

Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

At the risk of venturing into the political realm,there is evil in this world, and much of it is associated with Muslim religious extremists. Would that our current Commander-in-Chief weren't so equivocal in this regard.

Right. Cause the policy under the previous one worked so well. (I can be needlessly political too.)
08-19-2014, 08:25 PM
Nukem2

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

Right. Cause the policy under the previous one worked so well. (I can be needlessly political too.)

At least the previous one did not allow for a new "State"... In any event, there is no winning with these extremists. Sad world we are stuck in. It's not politics, it's religion sadly.
08-19-2014, 08:27 PM
kneelb4zerg

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

Right. Cause the policy under the previous one worked so well. (I can be needlessly political too.)

Never mind. Shouldn't have injected that. RIP James Foley.
08-19-2014, 09:12 PM
79warrior

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukem2

At least the previous one did not allow for a new "State"... In any event, there is no winning with these extremists. Sad world we are stuck in. It's not politics, it's religion sadly.

it is both. In many parts of the world, politics and religion go hand in hand. These nut jobs are dangerous and threatening to destabilize the whole region. ISIS hates the West.
08-19-2014, 10:33 PM
MUfan12

Even the Pope has said it might be time to take ISIS out, and that's a rare stance for him to take.

I shudder to think about how much worse it will get if the White House continues to drag its feet.
08-19-2014, 11:11 PM
Goose85

Terrible story. Prayers for you and your family James Foley.
08-20-2014, 06:29 AM
MulliganMusings

Truly tragic. James gave voice to those without a voice. I had followed his career dating back to his time in Libya and had hoped and prayed that, like in Libya, he would emerge alive from the hell that is Syria. To say ISIS give new meaning to the word evil is an understatement. My heart breaks for James' family and friends and the world has lost another fearless chronicler of events. The man was not some adrenaline junkie but a true journalist who told the stories many lacked the courage to cover. RIP James.
08-20-2014, 06:58 AM
Halo

Terrible news. Prayers to Jim's family.
08-20-2014, 08:12 AM
Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulliganMusings

Truly tragic. James gave voice to those without a voice. I had followed his career dating back to his time in Libya and had hoped and prayed that, like in Libya, he would emerge alive from the hell that is Syria. To say ISIS give new meaning to the word evil is an understatement. My heart breaks for James' family and friends and the world has lost another fearless chronicler of events. The man was not some adrenaline junkie but a true journalist who told the stories many lacked the courage to cover. RIP James.

Brilliantly said.

At work this morning, someone questioned why he would go back after having already been captured in Libya. My response was "I believe that was exactly why he went back, because that work was what he was compelled to do." Truly tragic.
08-20-2014, 11:14 AM
MUFLA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Brilliantly said.

At work this morning, someone questioned why he would go back after having already been captured in Libya. My response was "I believe that was exactly why he went back, because that work was what he was compelled to do." Truly tragic.

Foley graduated about a year behind me. Unfortunately for me, I never knew him. However, I recognized the Milwaukee Junior HS tutoring program that he mentioned in his 'letter to Marquette.' I also volunteered for that program. I took the same walk to the school--interacted with the same students. I could not do the exercise more than once. Naturally a tough place--not quite a kill zone, but it was definitely rough around the edges. I also felt that I did not make a difference--that I did not help the young man who came there to improve himself. I did not go back. Jim seemed to have succeeded there. He was driven to go back and do more. He not only tutored, but went back to the 'kill-zone' and became a teacher. I've thought about that in the past day. the daily response from his family and friends was something I followed. I can see that Jim had a spark--that he was one of those rare people. I can somewhat understand his later desire to keep going back. I am very sorry for his family and friends. I know he was deeply loved. The letter to Marquette article inspired me to say the rosary for the first time in perhaps a dozen or more years. I hope it did some good--perhaps I feel the same as when I was tutoring the young man at the junior high, a little bit ineffective.

My best intentions for the Foley family and Jim's friends. There is a WH petition for the other journalist shown in the video. Here is the link

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...-life/YvKDwNKp
08-20-2014, 11:48 AM
Gato78

He was one of us--I am sure he went to games as an undergrad. I have only met one MU graduate who had no interest in the basketball team. I just feel like he was one of us and I am sad about his death. He wasn't killed in combat. He wasn't a mistaken casualty. He was brutally murdered by a guy who was proud of his work. While James Foley was trying to "be the difference" his murderer is the devil personified. Killing one of us for no reason. He can rot in hell.
08-20-2014, 12:48 PM
mufan2003

So sad. As horrific as his death was, it is over, that was temporary, James is now at peace in heaven. ISIS needs to be wiped out. Ignoring them is only going to allow them to grow larger in numbers and territory. Especially with several Islamic extremist sympathizers in the Middle East. Appeasement is never the answer, just look at history (Hitler and the Nazis).
08-20-2014, 01:55 PM
MUMac

http://watchdog.org/166217/james-fol...ist-marquette/
08-20-2014, 02:03 PM
TheSultan

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUFAN2003

So sad. As horrific as his death was, it is over, that was temporary, James is now at peace in heaven. ISIS needs to be wiped out. Ignoring them is only going to allow them to grow larger in numbers and territory. Especially with several Islamic extremist sympathizers in the Middle East. Appeasement is never the answer, just look at history (Hitler and the Nazis).

Can we keep the politics out of here? Because I could say that if it wasn't for the fact that we needlessly de-stabilized the region in the first place by unseating a regime for illegitimate purposes, that ISIS might not have developed in the power vacuum that replaced it.

Or I could point out that ISIS is very much unlike Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler was the head of a legitimate state and all that entails...like a standing Army, manufacturing infrastructure, an economy, a population of supporters, etc.. ISIS is a bunch of well-armed bandits. They don't govern anything. They don't run anything. It's a false equivalency. And false equivalencies have gotten us in trouble in the past.
08-20-2014, 03:48 PM
farmerdoc

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

Can we keep the politics out of here? Because I could say that if it wasn't for the fact that we needlessly de-stabilized the region in the first place by unseating a regime for illegitimate purposes, that ISIS might not have developed in the power vacuum that replaced it.

Or I could point out that ISIS is very much unlike Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler was the head of a legitimate state and all that entails...like a standing Army, manufacturing infrastructure, an economy, a population of supporters, etc.. ISIS is a bunch of well-armed bandits. They don't govern anything. They don't run anything. It's a false equivalency. And false equivalencies have gotten us in trouble in the past.

Sultan--When was this region ever stable? IMO it was clearly more stable 5 years ago than it is today.
08-20-2014, 04:05 PM
TheSultan

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerdoc

Sultan--When was this region ever stable? IMO it was clearly more stable 5 years ago than it is today.

It was more stable 15 years ago too. One of the reasons that we didn't go to Baghdad during the Kuwait War was because of the uncertainty that would follow if Hussein and Ba'athists were toppled.

But really if the choices are instability versus perpetual occupation, I'm going with instability.
08-20-2014, 04:42 PM
Nukem2

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulliganMusings

Truly tragic. James gave voice to those without a voice. I had followed his career dating back to his time in Libya and had hoped and prayed that, like in Libya, he would emerge alive from the hell that is Syria. To say ISIS give new meaning to the word evil is an understatement. My heart breaks for James' family and friends and the world has lost another fearless chronicler of events. The man was not some adrenaline junkie but a true journalist who told the stories many lacked the courage to cover. RIP James.

+1... Need to get back on topic here.
08-20-2014, 04:49 PM
mufan2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

Can we keep the politics out of here? Because I could say that if it wasn't for the fact that we needlessly de-stabilized the region in the first place by unseating a regime for illegitimate purposes, that ISIS might not have developed in the power vacuum that replaced it.

Or I could point out that ISIS is very much unlike Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler was the head of a legitimate state and all that entails...like a standing Army, manufacturing infrastructure, an economy, a population of supporters, etc.. ISIS is a bunch of well-armed bandits. They don't govern anything. They don't run anything. It's a false equivalency. And false equivalencies have gotten us in trouble in the past.

Leading up to the Iraq war in 2003....BOTH democrats and republicans were in agreement and on record that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and was determined to use them. He had used them in the past on his own people. Democrats such as John Kerry and Hillary Clinton believed this. Congress debated invading Iraq for weeks, some intelligence theories exist that Saddam exported his WMD's before the invasion to win the international PR battle. Saddam killed thousands upon thousands of his own people, the mass graves existed that proved this.

Iraq was stable when Barack Obama took office in 2009. In 2011, Obama turned down a "Status of Forces" agreement that would have left 20,000 troops in Iraq. Obama said no to 20,000, then said no to 15,000, then said no to 10,000. To the point where there were to be no troops left in Iraq. That made Obama a political champion with his party. Obama was advised as far back as 2013 about the growing ISIS threat in Syria, and that he should act. Obama refused. ISIS started off around 2,000 and intelligence estimates have them now as large as 80,000. They are slaughtering innocent Yazidis and Christians throughout Iraq.

America has the military power to wipe this group out. It is a terrorist group just as Hamas and Al-Qaeda are. You cannot negotiate with them. They will hate democracies no matter what we do. Only option is to worship Allah and accept reduced rights for women. If we stay isolated over here, eventually another 9/11 will happen if not worse. I don't mean to take the focus off of James Foley in this thread, but I feel strongly about this and if America wants to stick its head in the sand and do nothing, evil will continue to grow like a cancer in the world.
08-20-2014, 07:37 PM
TheSultan

Nevermind...

Needless to say I vehemently disagree not only about your revisionist history, but also about your conclusion.
08-20-2014, 07:42 PM
unclejohn

It is terribly tragic. I think some things need to be kept in mind here. Foley knew his job was dangerous. He did it anyway. That does not mean he deserved to die or that he was stupid. But he did understand the risk he was taking. He felt it was worth the risk. He dedicated his life to a principle, and paid for it with his life. Perhaps not the decision most of us would make. Perhaps a better life than many will lead.

A country cannot protect all of its citizens from any danger anywhere around the world. At the point Foley was taken hostage, his life was in severe danger. It would have been difficult to do anything to save him, although attempts were made to do so.

According to the organization that killed him, Foley was killed in response to the US airstrikes on their positions. Those air strikes likely prevented the slaughter of thousands of non-combatants. They may and probably did save the lives of many more. They certainly changed the tide of battle in the area, almost certainly saving the lives of many more, perhaps millions.

Americans love to take the brute force approach to any problem. If we just work harder, spend more money, kill more people , make harsher demands, make someone "an offer they can't refuse," we can do anything. But we can't. The brute force approach often does not work in the short term, and used alone, never works in the long term. Oprah Winfrey decided to change the educational system in South Africa. She spent an enormous amount of money. She personally interviewed prospective students. It did not work. There are structural problems of long standing with the South African educational system that cannot be solved by throwing money at them. And furnishing the school with an Olympic swimming pool and Egyptian cotton sheets was stupid. The problems in the Middle East are decades, centuries in the making. They cannot be solved overnight by any amount of force. Any action taken by any country will have disadvantages and unintended consequences.

So let us mourn the death of a brave man who, for good and benevolent reasons, chose a job which he knew to be dangerous in pursuit of a greater good. Let us grieve for the death of a good man, and celebrate a life well-lived.
08-20-2014, 08:08 PM
Nukem2

Extremists need to be put on the run. Force is the only way to treat them. Otherwise they just laugh at us while they create havoc. Obama does not get that. Cannot deal with these terrorists, plain and simple.
08-20-2014, 08:20 PM
kneelb4zerg

Like it or not but America is the world's only democratic super power and a catalyst for freedom around the world. Obama doesn't believe in this concept - American exceptionalism - and it is depressingly sad.
08-20-2014, 08:33 PM
TheSultan

Just a trite phrase to make us feel good about ourselves. There are a lot of things great about America. And there are plenty of flaws as well. The dustpan of history is littered with societies who thought they were exceptional.
08-20-2014, 08:42 PM
Nukem2

When dealing with terrorists, we as a country cannot stick our heads in the sand. This is a small world now.
08-20-2014, 08:48 PM
Gato78

Except Obama has been lobbing bombs at them. Other than that he hasn't been doing anything. Of course, the Foley murder was stated to be in direct response to Obama's bombing so, except for Obama's bombing ICIS, he should start bombing ISIS.
08-20-2014, 08:51 PM
kneelb4zerg

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

Just a trite phrase to make us feel good about ourselves. There are a lot of things great about America. And there are plenty of flaws as well. The dustpan of history is littered with societies who thought they were exceptional.

Who else do you want shaping the direction of the world? China? Russia? Do tell.
08-20-2014, 08:58 PM
TheSultan

I want the United States to have influence in the world. But Unclejohn is right that too often we think that smacking someone in the mouth is the best way for that to happen. We haven't seemed to learn from that not often being the case.
08-20-2014, 09:04 PM
kneelb4zerg

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I want the United States to have influence in the world. But Unclejohn is right that too often we think that smacking someone in the mouth is the best way for that to happen. We haven't seemed to learn from that not often being the case.

Don't do it enough these days.

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/appalling_803471.html
08-20-2014, 09:20 PM
TheSultan

Weekly Standard...

Like I'm going to take the opinion of any neocon publication seriously when it comes to foreign policy. And seriously...Bill Kristol? The same guy who predicted a two month war in Iraq?

LOL...yeah right.
08-20-2014, 09:22 PM
Nukem2

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I want the United States to have influence in the world. But Unclejohn is right that too often we think that smacking someone in the mouth is the best way for that to happen. We haven't seemed to learn from that not often being the case.

There is no negotiating with terrorists. And, when they have legit passports to get into the US...ummmm
08-20-2014, 09:30 PM
kneelb4zerg

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

Weekly Standard...

Like I'm going to take the opinion of any neocon publication seriously when it comes to foreign policy. And seriously...Bill Kristol? The same guy who predicted a two month war in Iraq?

LOL...yeah right.

Must be tough for the liberals nowadays. Can only blame Bush for so much. And MSNBC is a joke. Enjoy keeping your head in the sand.
08-20-2014, 09:35 PM
MUFLA

sad that this thread has devolved into a political pee contest.

Three new Foley articles on NYTimes webpage. Well worth reading.
08-20-2014, 09:39 PM
TheSultan

Quote:

Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Must be tough for the liberals nowadays. Can only blame Bush for so much. And MSNBC is a joke. Enjoy keeping your head in the sand.

I don't blame Bush for much and never watch MSNBC. Sorry to ruin your simplistic, stereotypical labeling.
08-20-2014, 09:55 PM
mufan2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I want the United States to have influence in the world. But Unclejohn is right that too often we think that smacking someone in the mouth is the best way for that to happen. We haven't seemed to learn from that not often being the case.

OK Sultan. I am curious, if you were president, what would be your proposal for dealing with ISIS in Iraq? What should the United States' "influence" be in this situation, seeing you say the United States should have influence in the world. Assuming you are not for US airstrikes and special operations on the ground.
08-20-2014, 09:56 PM
Markedman

Could we lock the thread before we all start disliking each other over something other then Buzz's handling of Derrick Wilson?
08-20-2014, 10:14 PM
kneelb4zerg

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I don't blame Bush for much and never watch MSNBC. Sorry to ruin your simplistic, stereotypical labeling.

Same goes for your simplistic, stereotypical labeling re National Review. Ever think that a known 'neo con' might have a legitimate point?

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