Sick of the Griping

Whether here or any other board, last night was a tough loss and those have happened before and will happen again. Marquette was booed off the Arena floor after losing to Wichita State in AL's last home game before winning the NCAA Tournament in 1977. We need to get a grip, collectively. It has been a rough year that did not meet expectations. So we regroup, keep trying to win games this year--balls to the wall. Same for next year. Quit writing off this season and next season. Let's play the games and maybe the last second shots will be ours in New York and next year--they weren't this year so far.

The Scoop Board is an absolute joke.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

Whether here or any other board, last night was a tough loss and those have happened before and will happen again. Marquette was booed off the Arena floor after losing to Wichita State in AL's last home game before winning the NCAA Tournament in 1977. We need to get a grip, collectively. It has been a rough year that did not meet expectations. So we regroup, keep trying to win games this year--balls to the wall. Same for next year. Quit writing off this season and next season. Let's play the games and maybe the last second shots will be ours in New York and next year--they weren't this year so far.

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Well said. Go Warriors

People lack at controlling their own emotions. Hey, we all get mad. I get it! I think this is for message board type folks and many that hide behind a screen name that loose their mind.

There will be a lot to say tonight on Inside the Al at 7, don't forget to tune in!

Last night went against us. If Davante's shot leaves his hand a half second sooner, if Derrick steals that ball, if Todd's last shot falls, none of this madness is going on.

It was a great college basketball game and if nothing else, showed us why we should be cheering for this team. Maybe they aren't perfect, but they sure as hell aren't giving up. Sad to see so many fans are.

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Originally Posted by brewcity77

Last night went against us. If Davante's shot leaves his hand a half second sooner, if Derrick steals that ball, if Todd's last shot falls, none of this madness is going on.

It was a great college basketball game and if nothing else, showed us why we should be cheering for this team. Maybe they aren't perfect, but they sure as hell aren't giving up. Sad to see so many fans are.

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Derrick wasn't close to stealing that ball and shouldn't have gone for it to begin with. I think you meant to say "if Derrick lets Cotton catch it 30+ feet from the hoop with his back to the basket and his momentum taking him towards half court then defends him straight up to see where the chips fall, none of this madness might be going on." What's the upside if Derrick steals it there? He gets fouled immediately with 7 seconds left, misses 1 or 2 of the FTs, then they get a chance to tie/win it again?

Nonetheless, I agree, it's one bad year, and that was an exciting game. I hope Buzz learns from this and is able to maximize the roster he has available to him next year. He's been able to do it 5/6 years he's been here, the odds are on our side.

We're a program that now expects the NCAA tournament. That is a fair expectation for a boarder line upper echelon program in a big 5 conference.

This year's frustration results mainly in my opinion from the expectations going into the season. I think next year you'll see a lot less griping because expectations will be in the cellar.

These are the things I'm happy with and have confidence in for the future -- Buzz Williams as a coach, as a person and how he reflects the Christian values of Marquette University -- the fact that the Marquette Board had the courage to make changes in the administration -- finally that Chris Otule, Jake Thomas and Jamil Wilson always did their best to represent the school on and off the court.

Marquette fans need to respect the effort and look to the future. This is all a journey and only a fool would believe there won't be setbacks.

If MU goes to the NIT, can't say it's a bad year. Bad year is where you finish below .500 and don't make post-season.

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

If MU goes to the NIT, can't say it's a bad year. Bad year is where you finish below .500 and don't make post-season.

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Maybe for a team that hasn't gone 8 years without missing the NCAA. Or isn't expected to be in the conference title race more years than not.

I think you're bar is set waaay too low. NIT is second rate. Just look what's hanging from DePaul's rafters if you need reminding.

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

If MU goes to the NIT, can't say it's a bad year. Bad year is where you finish below .500 and don't make post-season.

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I don't know about that.... I think if we go NIT we missed an opportunity to get John, Deonte, and Jajuan some great experience en route to the NIT and a chance to build for the future. NIT every once in a while is fine if it's a building block/step towards something bigger & better (see: Villanova). Riding a 5th year walk-on and a severely limited upperclassman PG to the NIT is not excatly my idea of an NIT season well-spent. And I say this realizing full well that Buzz knows more about basketball than me and there is no one else I'd rather have at the helm than him. Just think the long-term arc of the program could have benefitted by a bit of a youth movement earlier in the season. Not talking 30+ mpg, I'm talking 15+ mpg (with consistency) for the three frosh. It would have paid major dividends down the line IMO.

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Originally Posted by bleedbluegold03

Maybe for a team that hasn't gone 8 years without missing the NCAA. Or isn't expected to be in the conference title race more years than not.

I think you're bar is set waaay too low. NIT is second rate. Just look what's hanging from DePaul's rafters if you need reminding.

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I agree with this (and no I'm not trolling you bleed).

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Originally Posted by brewcity77

Last night went against us. If Davante's shot leaves his hand a half second sooner, if Derrick steals that ball, if Todd's last shot falls, none of this madness is going on.

It was a great college basketball game and if nothing else, showed us why we should be cheering for this team. Maybe they aren't perfect, but they sure as hell aren't giving up. Sad to see so many fans are.

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+ 1,000,000 Well said!!

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Originally Posted by bleedbluegold03

Maybe for a team that hasn't gone 8 years without missing the NCAA. Or isn't expected to be in the conference title race more years than not.

I think you're bar is set waaay too low. NIT is second rate. Just look what's hanging from DePaul's rafters if you need reminding.

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We're all disappointed with the season obviously, but it's important to remember that it happens. Look no further than Notre Dame, Indiana, and Illinois. All high seeds in the tournament a year ago, and now most/all will miss the tournament this year. I try to remember that to keep me from stabbing myself in the eye with a dull spoon!

You clearly do not get it. The point is that the bar is set high. We are all disappointed--players more than anyone. We didn't meet our goals. OK. Jump off the ship, now and don't come back. Or, maybe you root like hell that we make a run in the BIG EAST Tournament. If not, then let's give 'em hell in the NIT. Just quit griping because it becomes a pain in the ass reading this stuff. Public message board, represent your University.

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Originally Posted by bleedbluegold03

Maybe for a team that hasn't gone 8 years without missing the NCAA. Or isn't expected to be in the conference title race more years than not.

I think you're bar is set waaay too low. NIT is second rate. Just look what's hanging from DePaul's rafters if you need reminding.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

You clearly do not get it. The point is that the bar is set high. We are all disappointed--players more than anyone. We didn't meet our goals. OK. Jump off the ship, now and don't come back. Or, maybe you root like hell that we make a run in the BIG EAST Tournament. If not, then let's give 'em hell in the NIT. Just quit griping because it becomes a pain in the ass reading this stuff. Public message board, represent your University.

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Sadly I think the irrational reactions from people like bleed accurately reflect the majority of this fanbase (at least the online community). They love spewing venom with immunity, and turtle up when called on their irrational ways. This season has revealed the character of many Marquette fans and it is not pretty.

I don't get where there is venom being spewed. People can't have reasonable disagreements? I am the biggest Buzz supporter on the planet, but I think voicing a modicum of disagreement about decisions made in a 1 point 2OT loss that largely determined the fate of the season is completely acceptable. Am I wrong here?

Holy thought police, Batman.

This board's criticisms have been (for the most part) factual, and pretty tame.

This board has not been bad on the whole, but this board is also nowhere near the majority of the online Marquette fanbase (and I that hope Jim gets infinite subscribers down the road). I sure as hell wish it was different, but Scoop is easily the most viewed Marquette forum. Dodds's board has not been much better. Bleed is very typical of a Scoop poster.

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Originally Posted by 2013UnleashTheBeast

I don't know about that.... I think if we go NIT we missed an opportunity to get John, Deonte, and Jajuan some great experience en route to the NIT and a chance to build for the future. NIT every once in a while is fine if it's a building block/step towards something bigger & better (see: Villanova). Riding a 5th year walk-on and a severely limited upperclassman PG to the NIT is not excatly my idea of an NIT season well-spent. And I say this realizing full well that Buzz knows more about basketball than me and there is no one else I'd rather have at the helm than him. Just think the long-term arc of the program could have benefitted by a bit of a youth movement earlier in the season. Not talking 30+ mpg, I'm talking 15+ mpg (with consistency) for the three frosh. It would have paid major dividends down the line IMO.

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I don't know what you are quoting me here? I'm saying going to the NIT is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by bleedbluegold03

Maybe for a team that hasn't gone 8 years without missing the NCAA. Or isn't expected to be in the conference title race more years than not.

I think you're bar is set waaay too low. NIT is second rate.

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Is the NIT second rate? Maybe. 2nd rate doesn't mean a bad thing.

I posted this on the premium side and thought maybe it should be over here, too. I am referring to all the boards and naysayers:

I see the problem as follows: those kids played their guts out coming back and taking the lead. They messed up at the end. They deserve some respect for the way they played. Todd made some mistakes but had total stones. Jake MAY have screwed up on the jump ball situation but he hit clutch threes. Yet, he gets hammered. Derrick Wilson would probably be really happy if he could shoot better. Buzz would probably like it if the team executed better. Yet, a lot of yo-yo's are questioning Buzz. Calling it a defining moment. A wasted season etc. Yet, last night more than any other game this year, that group put it all out there.

I will always remember the bus pulling in front of the hotel in St. Louis after we lost to Tulsa in the NCAA in 2002. We fans were waiting for them to give them a pat on the back (hotel bar was right there). They refused to get off the bus. Never saw a more emotionally wrecked group. Some stayed on the bus for 30 minutes, heads down, refusing to look up. I assume it was the same last night. So when the critics show up on the internet, I think of that game and how much it killed that group of kids to lose and how they thought they let everyone down. The guys taking shots need to take a closer look as to how this affects the players and assess the importance to them versus their own comfort and desires.

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

I don't know what you are quoting me here? I'm saying going to the NIT is a good thing.

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Because if we go to the NIT, I'd rather it be with a significant youth movement, rather than 5th year seniors, walk-ons, and a low-ceiling junior getting the lion's share of minutes. If you go NIT I'm okay with it, as long as it is a building block with a youth movement. We did not have that youth movement on the way to the NIT, therefore I belive it was a missed opportunity to build for the future.

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Originally Posted by 2013UnleashTheBeast

Derrick wasn't close to stealing that ball and shouldn't have gone for it to begin with. I think you meant to say "if Derrick lets Cotton catch it 30+ feet from the hoop with his back to the basket and his momentum taking him towards half court then defends him straight up to see where the chips fall, none of this madness might be going on." What's the upside if Derrick steals it there? He gets fouled immediately with 7 seconds left, misses 1 or 2 of the FTs, then they get a chance to tie/win it again?

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What part of the OP was unclear?

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Originally Posted by Gato78

You clearly do not get it. The point is that the bar is set high. We are all disappointed--players more than anyone. We didn't meet our goals. OK. Jump off the ship, now and don't come back. Or, maybe you root like hell that we make a run in the BIG EAST Tournament. If not, then let's give 'em hell in the NIT. Just quit griping because it becomes a pain in the ass reading this stuff. Public message board, represent your University.

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"If MU goes to the NIT, can't say it's a bad year." was what I responded to.

I responded saying the bar is higher and the NIT is a bad year.

You agreed with me by saying "The point is that the bar is set high. We are all disappointed...We didn't meet our goals."

You then said I clearly do not get it.

What am I missing here?

I like using Pomeroy as it is a history book. This season, MU is the 56th highest ranked team overall, with a 29 Pomeroy weighted SOS (for opposing offenses and defenses rankings). In 2004, MU was at 93rd overall with a Pomeroy SOS of 108. In 2005, MU was 106 overall with a Pom SOS of 102. The world is not coming to an end.

If you had no skin in the game last night, it was a great game to watch...maybe one of the best in CBB for the year. But the ups and downs made it an emotional roller coaster and people vent in different ways. But Buzz has raised the bar and that is a good thing, except last night when the final circumstances didn't end our way. Hell of a game and effort by both teams.

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Originally Posted by MUBasketball

We're all disappointed with the season obviously, but it's important to remember that it happens. Look no further than Notre Dame, Indiana, and Illinois. All high seeds in the tournament a year ago, and now most/all will miss the tournament this year. I try to remember that to keep me from stabbing myself in the eye with a dull spoon!

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well exactly. and all of them would tell you those were disappointing seasons. my only point is the bar for a strong program is make the NCAA. Making the NIT is a failure by that measuring stick. I'm not losing sleep on this by any means, I'd gladly trade a season like last years for one like this.

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

Is the NIT second rate? Maybe. 2nd rate doesn't mean a bad thing.

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In any way are you ok with marquette being associated with second rate?

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Originally Posted by brewcity77

What part of the OP was unclear?

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You said if Derrick steals the ball there we'd be singing a different tune. I beg to differ in more ways than one. 1.) he never should have gone for the steal in the first place 2.) Even if he gets it we are not exactly in a great position afterwards.

So what you should have said was "if Derrick doesn't go for the steal," not "if Derrick gets that steal."

If you are not losing sleep it over it then why are you obsessing about it on this board?

Nobody is happy about it........it has happened......fans can't do anything about it and the players and Buzz are more disappointed then you are......

the bar might be to make the NCAA but almost nobody accomplishes that every year....we have a streak of 8 going now...that is the 5th longest in the country......

As was said earlier the line is razor thin....we have played 5 ot games in conference........

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Originally Posted by bleedbluegold03

well exactly. and all of them would tell you those were disappointing seasons. my only point is the bar for a strong program is make the NCAA. Making the NIT is a failure by that measuring stick. I'm not losing sleep on this by any means, I'd gladly trade a season like last years for one like this.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

I posted this on the premium side and thought maybe it should be over here, too. I am referring to all the boards and naysayers:

I see the problem as follows: those kids played their guts out coming back and taking the lead. They messed up at the end. They deserve some respect for the way they played. Todd made some mistakes but had total stones. Jake MAY have screwed up on the jump ball situation but he hit clutch threes. Yet, he gets hammered. Derrick Wilson would probably be really happy if he could shoot better. Buzz would probably like it if the team executed better. Yet, a lot of yo-yo's are questioning Buzz. Calling it a defining moment. A wasted season etc. Yet, last night more than any other game this year, that group put it all out there.

I will always remember the bus pulling in front of the hotel in St. Louis after we lost to Tulsa in the NCAA in 2002. We fans were waiting for them to give them a pat on the back (hotel bar was right there). They refused to get off the bus. Never saw a more emotionally wrecked group. Some stayed on the bus for 30 minutes, heads down, refusing to look up. I assume it was the same last night. So when the critics show up on the internet, I think of that game and how much it killed that group of kids to lose and how they thought they let everyone down. The guys taking shots need to take a closer look as to how this affects the players and assess the importance to them versus their own comfort and desires.

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Well said Gato; I completely agree.

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Originally Posted by bleedbluegold03

In any way are you ok with marquette being associated with second rate?

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I'm ok with it for a year. I don't think, it makes Marquette second rate. It's the same head coach in Buzz! It's not like the slide from O'Neil to Deane at MU. I don't view the NIT as second rate as a bad thing. When the last 8 to 10 at-large schools in the ncaa tourney could easy be NIT type teams.

Florida won back to back titles, then went to the NIT. UNC & Kentucky just won the title and the next season went to the NIT. Nobody views them as second rate.

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

I'm ok with it for a year. I don't think, it makes Marquette second rate. It's the same head coach in Buzz! It's not like the slide from O'Neil to Deane at MU. I don't view the NIT as second rate as a bad thing. When the last 8 to 10 at-large schools in the ncaa tourney could easy be NIT type teams.

Florida won back to back titles, then went to the NIT. UNC & Kentucky just won the title and the next season went to the NIT. Nobody views them as second rate.

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Agreed. It happens. We have been spoiled that it had not happened to MU for awhile. Almost every other program has been out of the tourney since MU was last out. If this is the worst year in Buzz' tenure as coach, I am fine with that.

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Originally Posted by 2013UnleashTheBeast

You said if Derrick steals the ball there we'd be singing a different tune. I beg to differ in more ways than one. 1.) he never should have gone for the steal in the first place 2.) Even if he gets it we are not exactly in a great position afterwards.

So what you should have said was "if Derrick doesn't go for the steal," not "if Derrick gets that steal."

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And to this I would also respond by asking what part of the OP was unclear?

The line between happiness and misery as a fan is razor thin. If Vander Blue's two contested lay ups against Davidson and St. Johns bounce off the rim, we finish 22-9 with no Big East title and on a 3 game losing streak. I can only imagine how off the charts these boards would have been had that happened. I am quite positve that the overwhelming response to Vander leaving would have been good riddance.

Conversely, if Todd hits that shot at the end last night, if Derrick reverse pivots and finds Jake Thomas for a wide open 3 against ASU and if we hang on against Butler, we would be 20-10 heading into are final home game, have 3rd place all but locked up and probably are feeling pretty good heading into the tournament.

That's 5 plays that could have completely changed the dynamic of how we viewed these two seasons. All 5 plays could have easily gone the other way. We lost a heart breaker last night. We have won are share of those and basked in our opponents misery. We weren't as good as everyone makes us out to be last year and we aren't as bad as everyone makes us out to be this year. The difference between being ranked 15th and 50th is very small these days.

Well said, Orlando.

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Originally Posted by brewcity77

And to this I would also respond by asking what part of the OP was unclear?

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Then I guess I have no idea what this response means.

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Originally Posted by 2013UnleashTheBeast

Then I guess I have no idea what this response means.

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It means the thread title is "Sick of the griping", so maybe this isn't the best place to carry on the same arguments the OP is clearly sick of.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

I will always remember the bus pulling in front of the hotel in St. Louis after we lost to Tulsa in the NCAA in 2002. We fans were waiting for them to give them a pat on the back (hotel bar was right there). They refused to get off the bus. Never saw a more emotionally wrecked group. Some stayed on the bus for 30 minutes, heads down, refusing to look up. I assume it was the same last night. So when the critics show up on the internet, I think of that game and how much it killed that group of kids to lose and how they thought they let everyone down. The guys taking shots need to take a closer look as to how this affects the players and assess the importance to them versus their own comfort and desires.

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Agree whoe heartedly. As I posted in another thread, I will never forget after the team, completely out of gas lost to FSU in the finals of the Orlando tourney. I was extra disappointed because I have lots of FSU grad friends who were going to give me crap.
But watched Lazar walking off and destroying a folding chair with one stomp of his foot. Needless to say, he was far more frustrated than I was. We invest a few hours of our time and dollars. They invest far more.