Lack of Triple Threat Players

Buzz’s thing has always been he wants a couple pg's, a couple 5's and then guys who are threats to pass, dribble and shoot. I have to say that I agree with this philosophy and I think many of us do as well. I believe one of the main reasons our team has struggled this year is because many of our starters and guys who play significant minutes are one dimensional and do not fulfill the "ideal" mold of a Buzz Williams player.

Zach mentioned on the show in responding to my comment that he believed guys like DW, Jake, Chris and Juan are Buzz type of guys from an effort standpoint and that Marquette is back in the position they are (bubble - ish) because of those type of guys not laying down. While I wholeheartedly agree that these players represent the Buzz type of player from an effort standpoint (as each of them is playing to their potential, giving max effort, etc), I think he was sidestepping my point that simply put we do not have enough contributing players that possess the ideal triple threat that Buzz desires and that is why we are in the position that we are in (likely headed to the NIT). I have to imagine Buzz feels the same and in an ideal world would be building the program with players who possess the heart/effort of the aformentioned players while possessing more versatility from a triple threat standpoint.

Agree....you don't win big with one dimensional players.

Their really has been no flow to the offense most of the year. Our best teams have involved all 5 players on offense. The guards created offense for themselves and others.....guys like Butler and Crowder made plays on both sides of the ball......DJO was explosive as a scorer and in the open court.......We just don't have those players on this team and it is obvious when watching them play. Teams try to crowd Thomas and double Gardner and challenge other guys to make plays.....most of the time they can't.

We are paying for the lack of production from the current junior and senior classes outside of Gardner.

Buzz knows what needs to be done......now he just has to do it....might take a couple of years.....

ps 3 point shooting has to improve....you just have to be decent to very good out there in college basketball if you want to have a chance. Last years MU team was the exception to that rule. IMO

Just think how much more affective DWilson could be if he was simply bad from 3 Pt range. And by bad, I mean 25%. They would still have to watch him a bit and that would open up things much more for him to feed the post or even drive to the hole, which he has done with some success this year.

It is hard to believe that he averages 0.5 3 Pt shots attempted a game. That is ATTEMPTED, not made. Crazy stat in this day and age of college basketball.

We really have to have Duane or Dawson make a big jump this summer and be in a position to play significant minutes next year at the point.

I mentioned this in the game thread, but already this team has lost six games by double digits, but five of these in the Big East regular season with two games to go. Counting the regular season, the BET, and NCAA games, here was the number by year: 2013 (3, 1 in BE regular season), 2012 (4, 3 in BE), 2011 (4, 2 in BE), 2010 (1, 0 in BE), 2009 (4, 4 in BE). During this time, this was Buzz's third most experienced team. So, MU has already absorbed the same amount of blow-outs this season in Big East play as the previous four Big East regular seasons combined, to put that in perspective!

As stated above, this is either mismatched talent or a sign of bad coaching, or something in between like injuries, transfers, bad luck.

Clearly, defections and injuries have impacted MU as Jameel and Duane were expected to see the most minutes of the noobs, and Vander was a late surprise. Injuries to Taylor and Mayo set MU back early on to mid season. That is a lot of athleticism, length, and quickness left on the table or impacted. It is what it is.

Next is usage: Buzz starts and plays four guys who have low usage rates. Pomeroy labels them as role players or limited. Half court guys. Work the offense, slow the play, low turnovers, don't make mistakes. Not the most athletic or the quickest or uptempo guys. Spacing is cramped and/or constricted, and none are great at creating their own shots. But they are dependable, work hard and have energy.

The five of the best six offensive players as measured as % of shots (volume) are on the bench. One has a higher offensive efficiency than the leading POY candidate, but with a lot less usage. In fact, he is fourth in the country in efficiency with players with more than 24% of the minutes. Taking only a few shots in these losses as no one can get him the ball. There are reasons why they don't play more (freshmen, defense, focus, turnovers, class). Pretty much, in these losses, their roles were limited.

Defensively, the team and scheme are scattered and flat footed as they are always left haphazardly chasing the perimeter while protecting the paint. It is the reason for these blowouts defensively. Not a great scheme for the talent getting the minutes, but it is the scheme that coach believes in as it has worked. Statistically, Pomeroy says MU should be a sometimes zone team, but in the double header BE, coaches have adjusted.

So, there you have it. Buzz has and has had a lot of work to do, being a magician trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat to have MU in the hunt. There is hope, but in mid January I was of the mind that MU should have played for the future, but Buzz was playing to win which he has accomplished. He has a lot of work to do for next year with a lot more transition to come. It is a bit crazy to think that this is a disappointing season being 4th in the BE and ranked 57th in Pomeroy. But, there were/are pieces to build on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLT

I mentioned this in the game thread, but already this team has lost six games by double digits, but five of these in the Big East regular season with two games to go. Counting the regular season, the BET, and NCAA games, here was the number by year: 2013 (3, 1 in BE regular season), 2012 (4, 3 in BE), 2011 (4, 2 in BE), 2010 (1, 0 in BE), 2009 (4, 4 in BE). During this time, this was Buzz's third most experienced team. So, MU has already absorbed the same amount of blow-outs this season in Big East play as the previous four Big East regular seasons combined, to put that in perspective!

As stated above, this is either mismatched talent or a sign of bad coaching, or something in between like injuries, transfers, bad luck.

Clearly, defections and injuries have impacted MU as Jameel and Duane were expected to see the most minutes of the noobs, and Vander was a late surprise. Injuries to Taylor and Mayo set MU back early on to mid season. That is a lot of athleticism, length, and quickness left on the table or impacted. It is what it is.

Next is usage: Buzz starts and plays four guys who have low usage rates. Pomeroy labels them as role players or limited. Half court guys. Work the offense, slow the play, low turnovers, don't make mistakes. Not the most athletic or the quickest or uptempo guys. Spacing is cramped and/or constricted, and none are great at creating their own shots. But they are dependable, work hard and have energy.

The five of the best six offensive players as measured as % of shots (volume) are on the bench. One has a higher offensive efficiency than the leading POY candidate, but with a lot less usage. In fact, he is fourth in the country in efficiency with players with more than 24% of the minutes. Taking only a few shots in these losses as no one can get him the ball. There are reasons why they don't play more (freshmen, defense, focus, turnovers, class). Pretty much, in these losses, their roles were limited.

Defensively, the team and scheme are scattered and flat footed as they are always left haphazardly chasing the perimeter while protecting the paint. It is the reason for these blowouts defensively. Not a great scheme for the talent getting the minutes, but it is the scheme that coach believes in as it has worked. Statistically, Pomeroy says MU should be a sometimes zone team, but in the double header BE, coaches have adjusted.

So, there you have it. Buzz has and has had a lot of work to do, being a magician trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat to have MU in the hunt. There is hope, but in mid January I was of the mind that MU should have played for the future, but Buzz was playing to win which he has accomplished. He has a lot of work to do for next year with a lot more transition to come. It is a bit crazy to think that this is a disappointing season being 4th in the BE and ranked 57th in Pomeroy. But, there were/are pieces to build on.

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Good post BLT. Appreciate the insight. Tough season all around.

Yeah Vander might have helped today....he had 47 in the D-league.....

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/201...295#nbaGIRadio

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLT

I mentioned this in the game thread, but already this team has lost six games by double digits, but five of these in the Big East regular season with two games to go. Counting the regular season, the BET, and NCAA games, here was the number by year: 2013 (3, 1 in BE regular season), 2012 (4, 3 in BE), 2011 (4, 2 in BE), 2010 (1, 0 in BE), 2009 (4, 4 in BE). During this time, this was Buzz's third most experienced team. So, MU has already absorbed the same amount of blow-outs this season in Big East play as the previous four Big East regular seasons combined, to put that in perspective!

As stated above, this is either mismatched talent or a sign of bad coaching, or something in between like injuries, transfers, bad luck.

Clearly, defections and injuries have impacted MU as Jameel and Duane were expected to see the most minutes of the noobs, and Vander was a late surprise. Injuries to Taylor and Mayo set MU back early on to mid season. That is a lot of athleticism, length, and quickness left on the table or impacted. It is what it is.

Next is usage: Buzz starts and plays four guys who have low usage rates. Pomeroy labels them as role players or limited. Half court guys. Work the offense, slow the play, low turnovers, don't make mistakes. Not the most athletic or the quickest or uptempo guys. Spacing is cramped and/or constricted, and none are great at creating their own shots. But they are dependable, work hard and have energy.

The five of the best six offensive players as measured as % of shots (volume) are on the bench. One has a higher offensive efficiency than the leading POY candidate, but with a lot less usage. In fact, he is fourth in the country in efficiency with players with more than 24% of the minutes. Taking only a few shots in these losses as no one can get him the ball. There are reasons why they don't play more (freshmen, defense, focus, turnovers, class). Pretty much, in these losses, their roles were limited.

Defensively, the team and scheme are scattered and flat footed as they are always left haphazardly chasing the perimeter while protecting the paint. It is the reason for these blowouts defensively. Not a great scheme for the talent getting the minutes, but it is the scheme that coach believes in as it has worked. Statistically, Pomeroy says MU should be a sometimes zone team, but in the double header BE, coaches have adjusted.

So, there you have it. Buzz has and has had a lot of work to do, being a magician trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat to have MU in the hunt. There is hope, but in mid January I was of the mind that MU should have played for the future, but Buzz was playing to win which he has accomplished. He has a lot of work to do for next year with a lot more transition to come. It is a bit crazy to think that this is a disappointing season being 4th in the BE and ranked 57th in Pomeroy. But, there were/are pieces to build on.

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I guess we have to look at the bright side that there will be a large purge of the roster then. Jamil, Otule, Davante and Jake are gone and maybe Mayo goes to Europe to make money.

A lot of fresh young blood will make up the roster next year and many will have a fresh clean slate. We will see what Buzz can do with the team then.

I think this is part of the problem, but for me it's more that we don't have guys that play both ways well. As Buzz said, our best offensive players are not our best defensive players. In the past, guys like Lazar, Jimmy, Jae, and Vander were undoubtedly the best options at both ends of the court. And the guys that may have excelled at one end were at least solid at the other end -- DJO, Lockett, Junior all come to mind.

This year it's diametrically opposed. Davante and Deonte are really good on offense, but not so much the other end. Dawson, Mayo, and Jajuan all show significant flashes on offense as well, but their defense is either lacking or comprised of some real "what the?!?" moments. On defense, Derrick and Jake clearly get it, but aren't going to routinely pour in the points (though they've both made significant strides). Juan and Otule are both good defenders that aren't big offensive stars.

We have a NCAA caliber defense -- Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil, and Otule. We might even have a NCAA caliber offense in John, Todd, Deonte, Jamil, and Gardner. But it's hard to be a NCAA caliber team when there's so little overlap between your best defense and offense.

Jamil is the one guy on this team who displays the ability to take over the game at both ends. But he doesn't seem to be the leader this team needs. I really hope in the coming years, we see the young talent figure it out at the back end, and see guys like 'Med Hill, Luke Fischer, Sandy Cohen, and Nick Noskowiak come in ready to play the game at both ends of the floor.

Brew - I completely agree with this and I was going to put it in my original post but thought I'd stick with one thought. If I had to list two main reasons for struggles this year it would be:

1. lack of triple threat players
2. our best off players are not our best defensive players

These two points really address talent which at the end of the day this team is lacking in my opinion and as their record and RPI would indicate - beat some decent teams, never beat a really good team. After the talent issue, than we can all have our pick for what else went wrong - chemistry, coaching, etc.

Irwin says "I guess we have to look at the bright side that there will be a large purge of the roster." My concern when I look at next year is the "be careful what you wish for" philosophy as yes it will be exciting to have some new blood coming through and clearly the program is headed in the right direction from a big picture standpoint but next year could be a long year filled with:

1. constant hockey substitutions trying to settle into a rotation for quite a while as there's just so much uncertainty
2. struggling down low on both ends
3. poor 3 pt shooting (as 2 of next year's starting guards - mayo and DW are poor 3 pt shooters)

I agree, next year could be very difficult. We lose Jamil, the one guy who's undoubtedly the best at both ends. We also lose both halves of our center combination and our best three-point shooter. If the young guys progress, we could be one of those under-the-radar teams that surprise some people come March. But if they don't...

Ugh, we could have a group of sophomores that get minutes by default but still don't get it on defense, leading more people to complain about why Derrick and Juan are still playing 25+ mpg. We could have a bunch of freshmen that are even more deer-in-the-headlights than the current crop can sometimes seem to be, especially since none of them are as highly regarded as Jajuan, who can't get off the bench. And they all could be led by Todd, who when needed to lead usually seems to be a black hole on offense and simply not the leader type.

Next year could be very long. My hope is that Burton starts to understand the defense (he's showing signs) and passes a bit more on offense. I still think that kid has All-American ability. I also hope Fischer is ready to contribute on both ends from day one. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Burton and Fischer were our two most important players next year, and while he may not be an offensive stud, I do think Derrick is the type of kid who could be an excellent senior leader. There are signs for hope, but certainly a lot of reasons to worry as well.

Next year is a rebuilding year. There is talent there to build barring transition churn. Fisher comes in after Finals to improve the outlook but MU needs a soft out of conference schedule as the Old Spice will be fugly.

Old Spice may still be manageable. I don't expect us to win it, but Rider, Georgia Tech, and Santa Clara aren't exactly belles of the ball. Most likely we will be on the opposite side of the bracket from Xavier, which means our first game will be against one of those three or Tennessee. The Vols graduate three of their top four players and could lose Stokes to the draft as well, so the first game will be winnable. I don't expect we'd beat Kansas or Michigan State, but could still come out of that tournament 2-1.

Getting Wisconsin and Arizona State at home is a big boost. I don't think we'll beat the Badgers next year, especially if Dekker stays (if he does, they may be Bo's first legit NC threat) but Carson already announced he's going to the Draft and ASU also loses Bachynski and Marshall. I expect we'll lose at OSU.

I just posted in the other forum how important scheduling will be for next year. If we can go 3-3 in those 6 games, I'd consider that successful, and 2-4 wouldn't be that bad. We need as many 100-250 RPI teams for the other games if we want any shot at the tourney, and I have to admit I'd love to see an 18 game home schedule next year. If I'm Broeker, I'd be trying to get buy games with as many Horizon, WCC, and Missouri Valley opponents as I can get, then fill out the schedule with low-major contenders.

Teams like High Point, Stony Brook, Eastern Washington, St. Francis (NY), American, and Louisiana-Lafayette are all teams I'd love to see play here next year. Those teams would provide a challenge (unlike the Gramblings and IUPUIs of the world) without being overwhelming like our losses this year were.