Georgetown should be PO'd

They lost, we won but the officiating tonight was a new low in the lowest season of NCAA officiating I can remember. Perhaps the officials are like Al's teams---they reflect the personality of their leader, John Cahil--incompetent (and he ran like a girl). They were awful all game long--made it a real long game, fouled out all of the Georgetown big men and called a ridiculous T on Jake. There is no excuse. They would be better off pushing up high level high school officials.

This is now 2 of the last 3 games (both at home) where the officiating was just plain horrible. Between the ticky tack fouls here, then not calling them later and both T's were just plain silly. How Buzz and JTIII didn't get tossed is simply beyond me.

The League really needs to take a look at this.

Jake's T was a joke. Buzz said play was walked through yesterday based on advanced scouting. Then again today. When Jake hit the shot he turned to the assistant that drew it up and said "it worked" and pointed to the coach. Buzz explained it to the ref at the next break.

Simply unwatchable. A total of 51 fouls with 64 free throws taken. They extended the game by at least a half hour. No wonder those coming up from Chicago or up North don't bother with the weeknight commute. That is a lot of dead space. At this rate, NCAA basketball will become the roller derby with no fans live at the event, but everyone watching at home. The two technicals were over the top.

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Originally Posted by BLT

Simply unwatchable. A total of 51 fouls with 64 free throws taken. They extended the game by at least a half hour. No wonder those coming up from Chicago or up North don't bother with the weeknight commute. That is a lot of dead space. At this rate, NCAA basketball will become the roller derby with no fans live at the event, but everyone watching at home. The two technicals were over the top.

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I just got back to Chicago about 20 minutes ago with a slight diversion to Real Chili.

The Creighton and G-Town games were two of the worst officiated games I've ever seen. Beyond disgusting. What was it, 8 fouls in the first 3 minutes of the game?

Part of the problem, is that the subjective part of officiating has never been larger than it is today. Also, most aggressive teams have learned to play defense from the old Huggins Cincy teams. It is almost like daring officials that they can't call them all.

I feel like the offense is given too much deference in the game as well.

But, if the goal is to decrease the physical nature of the college game, more crews need to call games like this, so teams will adjust and play a less physical style.

I don't ever want to see a college game called like that again. They weren't just trying to prevent a physical style of basketball, they were calling just ridiculous touch fouls. After the under 12:00 timeout in the second half, they called four fouls in about 45 seconds. (And I believe both teams were already in the bonus, if not the double bonus, by that point.)

If the NCAA thought that this would improve the product, they were wrong. There is not a chance I watch that game unless I have a rooting interest in either team.

I am not sure that we got the better end of the deal. There were some calls, like when Todd got the ball blocked and they called out of bounds off him. It was clearly off the GT player. But yeah, it was a horribly officiated game that had an impact on the outcome. I am really surprised that they didn't call a foul at the end of the game. I know it was clean, but still it looked like something they would call.

It was awfully officiated both ways, but I feel GT got the worst of it. Their three bigs had 14 fouls and couldn't look at Davante funny without a whistle. The technical on them was an absolute joke. Yes, it was a bad call on Jake as well, but a phantom makeup technical?

I'm not sure I'd say the refs were the reason they lost because they were bad on both sides, but if I were a GT fan watching that I'd feel pretty irritated. Just a brutally officiated game.

There's a reason Gato and Hizzoner regularly text when we see who is officiating the game. The refs matter. Mike Stephens is just brutal. I used to think Corbitt was OK, but maybe that was just compared to Tim Higgins. There was no reason for Corbitt to T up Jake. None whatsoever. Then Jamie Luckie awards a makeup T? OK, we like the fact it evened out but it never should have come to it. Strangest thing is that Stephens did not call either T and that Pat "Double T" Driscoll was not in the house. Regardless, just painful. Watching other Big East games has only served to reinforce my view - the refs this year in the Big East are truly awful. Both teams got screwed last night and both have valid reasons to bitch.

I'd like to think that the Big East head of officials, John "I used to run like a girl" Cahill is going to fix it, but I'm not holding my breath.

This reminds me of a story a U.S. Attorney told me about the random selection of judges. He said you would see attorneys giving each other high fives or in total despair based on who they would have to deal with on the bench for their trial.

The rule changes in college basketball and the reconfigured league have compounded the foul problem for the NBE. Lets pray things get to somewhere near fair as the journey continues.

On a personal sad note all the fouls extending the game meant that out in Eugene where I was watching the contest the cable provider cut away to show the Oregon State game with five minutes left in the Marquette/Georgetown struggle.

Prior to this year, for the most part, if there was a bump or touch while a player was dribbling or driving the hoop, if the defense gained no advantage and the offensive player wasn't really affected, there was no call. Last night there were a ton of these type of calls, and not only when guys were going to the hoop.

I get some of the calls GTown's bigs had against Davante, he was hit going up for the shot. Some of those fouls were just bad or lazy defensive positioning.
I no longer have any idea what a charge is. If you slip on the floor there is a foul. If you trip over your own two feet that is a foul on someone on the D.

The way the fouls are being called now, or at least last night, you are almost forcing teams to play zone D, as playing an agressive man to man is just asking to be called for silly fouls.

They need to figure it out before next year because players obviously don't know what is or isn't allowed, and the game is tough to watch when you don't go a full minute without a stoppage in play.

The T's....

Jake's - Jake explained in post game. This was new like Gato said, but during a time out they tweaked it a bit and the way they drew it up, it was all about timing. Had to be timed just right or it would not work. So Jake comes around the corner and Chew is yelling at him, "You're too late! You're too late!" Jake hit the shot, looked at Chew and shook his head. Two trips down the court and they do it again. Chew yells, "You're too late! You're too late!" Jake hits it again. He looks at Chew again and shakes his head no, this time exaggerated. ref thinks he's doing it to G'Town.

Jake said it was the second T of his entire career, said he got one at North Dakota for hanging on the rim, and added, "I know no one will believe that."

Make up T: Justified. Player ran down court, turned to set up for D and yelled, "Come on MFer, let's go! FU MFer!" Yep, justified.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

The T's....

Jake's - Jake explained in post game. This was new like Gato said, but during a time out they tweaked it a bit and the way they drew it up, it was all about timing. Had to be timed just right or it would not work. So Jake comes around the corner and Chew is yelling at him, "You're too late! You're too late!" Jake hit the shot, looked at Chew and shook his head. Two trips down the court and they do it again. Chew yells, "You're too late! You're too late!" Jake hits it again. He looks at Chew again and shakes his head no, this time exaggerated. ref thinks he's doing it to G'Town.

Jake said it was the second T of his entire career, said he got one at North Dakota for hanging on the rim, and added, "I know no one will believe that."

Make up T: Justified. Player ran down court, turned to set up for D and yelled, "Come on MFer, let's go! FU MFer!" Yep, justified.

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So why doesn't the ref just talk to Jake?

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

So why doesn't the ref just talk to Jake?

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How are you supposed to take over a game if you let the guys explain themselves?

Just looking at the numbers again...Georgetown ran out four big men last night, Hopkins, Ayegba, Hayes, and Lubick. They combined for 18 fouls in 43 minutes played. That is absolutely ridiculous. While Marquette certainly went to work drawing those fouls, those numbers are just silly.

Which bloke here in the sidelines floor money seats opposite the GU bench was jawing with Stephens on that GU slip, tripping phantom foul call on Juan towards the end of the game? LMAO. Stephens was jawing back pretty hard and I was expecting a technical or escort out. The fan looked like he was watching the play on his mobile and verbally playing it back to the ref how he missed it. I would have loved to hear that back and forth.

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Originally Posted by brewcity77

Just looking at the numbers again...Georgetown ran out four big men last night, Hopkins, Ayegba, Hayes, and Lubick. They combined for 18 fouls in 43 minutes played. That is absolutely ridiculous. While Marquette certainly went to work drawing those fouls, those numbers are just silly.

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While I agree that that is a lot of fouls in a short period of time, I have trouble remembering more than three of them that were even questionable. Georgetown's post defenders are foul prone. They umbrella the offensive player rather then keep their arms straight up. They push with their hands and not their hips. They get in foul trouble every game. Combine that with Gardner's ability to draw fouls and a tightly called game and I blame them for not adjusting.

4 of Lubick's fouls were 100% no brainer calls. There was one phantom off the ball foul on him that I did not see because I was not focused on him, but he gets 1 or 2 of those a game, so to think he was totally innocent is a little naive. Ayegba is pretty much a self proclaimed enforcer. Go to Georgetown's board they bemoan his lack of common sense constantly. He is a foul waiting to happen. He had a couple of those fouls where you don't see them unless they show the replay, but he always does. His reputation kills him and he has done nothing to adjust all season. All of Hopkins fouls were legit. Three of them were wild attempts to block shots with a lot of contact and one he just threw his man out of the way on a rebound. Hayes is an inexperienced defender and Gardner schooled him. Once again, 3 of his 4 fouls were obvious. He actually could have been called for a couple other, but I think the officials pulled back because of the volume of calls. So out of 18 fouls, I have trouble coming up with 4 that maybe should not have been called.

You have to adjust to the officials. Why not run a double team at Gardner rather then watch all of your big men foul out in one on one matchups that they were obviously losing. I can't remember one double team the whole night. JTIII said after the game that his perimeter guys were supposed to be doubling, but they were apprehensive because Marquette was hitting shots. He said that apprehension was making the double teams come too late. Do you want the officials to put their whistles away because of Georgetown's defensive inadequacies? Should they bail out Georgetown's late rotations because their post players are incapable of covering Gardner and they are fouling too much?

I agree with you for the most part. I am not a fan of those phantom off the ball fouls. I think the refs called too many of them. But they were consistent with those calls the whole game. Make adjustments.

The foul on Juan wasn't BS, Juan fouled him. It was right in front of my face. Thing is, he didn't have to.

The player slipped and was falling on his own. Basically tried to cut too hard. Ball was starting to pop out and Juan couldn't help himself. He reached in and hit him on the arm.

Problem was the ref called it a blocking foul. There was no block, not even close, but Juan did reach in and hit him on the arm. Reaching foul yes, not a blocking foul.

Agreed, Orlando, they needed to adjust. I guess I am just more of a fan of the refs letting guys get away with a bit in exchange for a smoother flow of the game. This year seems to have a lot of game-to-game inconsistencies as well. That said, GT definitely has guys that are foul prone. Lubick and Hopkins seem to have had those problems for ages now.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Problem was the ref called it a blocking foul. There was no block, not even close, but Juan did reach in and hit him on the arm. Reaching foul yes, not a blocking foul.

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Even then, I would have a real hard time calling a reach on the defender if the guy is falling on his own.

I didn't see the reach from upstairs, and my line of sight was directly in line. The TV angle was the same one Corbett had behind the play, and he didn't call anything.

What I think happened, just like the first time Starks took a dive, is that Stephens saw him fall and felt like he had to call a foul. So he made up a block.

Other than charge v. blocking calls (no idea what a charge is anymore), my biggest gripe is the dribble drive contact fouls.

Offensive player has the ball on the outside and begins the drive to the hoop. Defensive player is in good position and is moving the feet and defending without reaching or bringing contact. The offensive player forces the contact on the drive or extends the arm to push off and this is so often called a foul on the defense. At times last night, and in other games I've watched (not just MU) it is almost like when the game is called close, the defender should all but allow the player to drive to the hoop. Then you contrast that with the extreme physical play in the post and I just don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

The foul on Juan wasn't BS, Juan fouled him. It was right in front of my face. Thing is, he didn't have to.

The player slipped and was falling on his own. Basically tried to cut too hard. Ball was starting to pop out and Juan couldn't help himself. He reached in and hit him on the arm.

Problem was the ref called it a blocking foul. There was no block, not even close, but Juan did reach in and hit him on the arm. Reaching foul yes, not a blocking foul.

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Simply, then he made the wrong call. I said phantom as he walked before Juan slapped in I thought. Chicken or egg.

That said, did you catch any action of that fan on the floor seats nearby--two or three seats off the baseline? Stephens was getting and giving it, even during the free throws. Good restraint there not to T the fan up at that point. The fan even stood up and took a small step toward him...I was cringing right there. Funny on one hand, afraid of a deadly technical on the other. Maybe it wasn't as bad close up, but from the distance it didn't look like a positive exchange.

It might be very interesting to get a ref on BCB Radio as a guest.

For whatever reason I didn't see that, but suspect it was either AlphaBangura or one of two other possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

For whatever reason I didn't see that, but suspect it was either AlphaBangura or one of two other possibilities.

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Innocent on that one. But I did tell Stephens we are now calling him "The Show" cuz it's all about him. His look told me he was none too happy!

I told Corbett he swallowed it on the other end. Not sure if he knew I meant the whistle.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

I told Corbett he swallowed it on the other end. Not sure if he knew I meant the whistle.

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http://ghostfaceknitter.files.wordpr...5/seinfeld.gif

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Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

Innocent on that one. But I did tell Stephens we are now calling him "The Show" cuz it's all about him. His look told me he was none too happy!

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We saw that and were cheering you on BTW.

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Originally Posted by brewcity77

How are you supposed to take over a game if you let the guys explain themselves?

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I don't believe that was the posters intent. I don't think he meant that the ref should have asked for an explanation as much as to tell him to stop it.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

I don't believe that was the posters intent. I don't think he meant that the ref should have asked for an explanation as much as to tell him to stop it.

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Sorry...should have used teal, I was just kidding.