Referees for tonight....

Referees for Marquette vs Florida will be.... Ted Valentine, Randall McCall and Mike Reed

Don't like Valantine at all.

Reed did the MU Murray State game

Nice to see yellow shirts and know they are MU fans, not confusing them with Murray State fans.

Absolutely horrible officiating.

The officiating has been an abomination--announcers right there with em.

When I saw Valentine's name, I had a really, really bad feeling. He is an awful official. Anyone wonder why Bobby Knight threw a chair at him?

Buzz is fed up with the officials - he is working on a T, but you can't blame the guy when he calls a TO, they tell him its on the side, he draws up a play and they have him inbound the ball under the hoop.

That call at the end was the definition of a flagrant foul.

We had our problems but I think it is very fair to say this was the worst officiated game we have had all year---and we have had a bad year of officiating.

I said this on Scout. Any of you who think we lost this game because of officiating are high pure and simple. Complaining about officiating is for losers. We lost for the following reasons.
1) Junior played like crap. Turnovers and fouls
2) Vander once again can't hit a layup. Two of his missed layups turned into easy transition points for Florida
3) When we had free throw opportunities, we did not take advantage.
4) We had poor shot selection
5) we rebounded crappy
6) Florida hit their shots, we did not.
7) Was DJO even on the court in the second half? Didn't hear his name until the last two minutes when he was fouling.
8) Bottom line is we played a poor all around game. Poor shooting, not good defense, not taking advantage of opportunities.

Not enough paint touches... That is the reason we lost, we'd run up the floor and jack up a shot, we'd miss and nobody would be in position to rebound and Florida would have an easy rebound. Paint touches not only help you get more open looks, but they also mean that someone is in the paint so if the shot is missed you at least have a chance at a rebound. Shot selection was really bad tonight I felt... We want to play fast, but in control, seems like when we were pressed this year we played out of control... Really too bad, this was a winnable game, bad night to have an off night.

Seth Davis says that was the right call. I thought the rule was intent was a Flagrant 2, but there didn't need to be intent for a Flagrant 1. Heck, I think I remember Lazar getting a flagrant for swinging his elbows and not even making contact.

So what is the rule? Does anyone know? I couldn't hear the commentators well, but it sounded like they were debating 1 vs. 2 and surprised it wasn't called anything.

In no way am I blaming the game on this call or anything. I just don't know what the rule is. Also, to call it a basketball move is iffy. Jamil is much taller than this kid and was behind him. If Jamil was in a defensive stance and in front of him or on the side, I could buy it. Someone on twitter said that Boynton did a similar thing in the Norfolk State game, and this was kind of his MO.

Jim McIlvaine said after the game that it was the same exact player that got the flagrant against Norfolk State - almost the identical play.

Florida won the game and deserved to win. That said this contest was not called like to first two tournament games or like what we have generally seen through out 11-12. Think about the season though -- Buzz goes in two scholarships short. That was a measured gamble on future recruiting. Otule goes out for the season. Gardner is out and never fully recovered for the tournament. All that and a second place finished in the BE and a Sweet 16 berth? That is pretty sweet.

Thanks to Coach Buzz and the players. Each season since Williams took over fans have asked can the team be successful with the players lost to graduation. (yes, Florida players do graduation at Marquette) Lets look forward to year five -- the returning players and the new arrivals. The 12-13 Marquette team has the potential to be the deepest ever. Fans need to send the message to the Marquette Administration and Milwaukee Media that we appreciate and support Buzz Williams.

I do not think we blame losses solely on officials or solely on poor shooting or solely on poor defense etc. Thay can all contribute. It is fair to say that poor officiating can be a factor in a loss and I think that is unquestionably the case last night. I also believe poor officiating in end of game situations, when mistakes are made, can be primarily repsonsible for loss. I believe players and coaches should never blame officials based on their positions. However, I think the theory that officials can never be blamed for a loss is doctrinaire and not reflective of reality.

Davis is wrong. It might be a bad rule but it is a rule that if your elbow hits another player above the shoulders it is a flagarnt foul 1. It does not have to be intentional as we have seen numerous times this year including the Nova game IIRC.

Seriously though, dont you guys think that was a flagrant foul? It didnt, and does not have to be intential, it happened. Contact above the shoulders happend and I dont think it was malicious but its still a flagrant. I am kinda of surprised that Buzz's reaction was not more overt.

Especially when you get absolutely pounded on when driving to the hole 15 times. If those fouls are called, that is 15 less attempts, or 10 more makes and 5 less attempts.

With that, you put in 8-10 free throws - the opponent has to adjust - they back off because of foul trouble and it opens things up for your offense. Changes the entire game. Also, you come up empty on three straight possessions, the wind is out of your sails, the opponent gets all jacked up - momentum is huge and in their favor.

On the other hand, you draw fouls on three straight trips, hit 4-5 free throws - momentum is all in your favor and the opponent is dejected.

Momentum is huge in college ball, it swings from side to side throughout every game, and if the refs affect three straight trips on more than one occasion, it has a major impact in the game.

Jamil Wilson has 4-5" on the Florida Guard. The guard was looking back as he jabbed his elbow. There is no way he connects that high up on Jamil's face without intent, IMHO. Add to the fact he had his head turned looking at Jamil before he jab's his elbow. I have no doubt it was intentional. I could see leniency and giving a Flagrant 1. I thought a Flagrant 2 should also be considered. But when you have Ted Valentine officiating with his own set of rules, nothing makes sense.

But when you had the same player doing the same thing in the first round, and getting a t - seems that player has a pattern....

Officials were fine for the most part with the exception of that call at the end. What most of the fans should realize is that we don't want games called the way they apparently want them called. MU is one of the most aggressive defensive teams out there. We foul on just about every defensive possession. We constantly are reaching in, hip checking, body bumping and going for the ball. I will take some no calls on the offensive end in exchange for not being called on the defensive end. Against most good opponents, a high foul game will go against us because of our lack of depth. MU rarely has guys in foul trouble where they have to sit on the bench for extended periods. We will have that if the games are called the way you guys apparently want.

I thought the officiating in the first half was inconsistent. MU got called for some pushes in the back on rebounds and contact with the body on shots in the paint that were not called the other way. Buzz felt that way, as well. MU had 8 fouls to Florida's 2 and Buzz spent the whole time Florida was shooting two FT's to complain about it. Wholla, at halftime the fouls were 8-7.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

I thought the officiating in the first half was inconsistent. MU got called for some pushes in the back on rebounds and contact with the body on shots in the paint that were not called the other way. Buzz felt that way, as well. MU had 8 fouls to Florida's 2 and Buzz spent the whole time Florida was shooting two FT's to complain about it. Wholla, at halftime the fouls were 8-7.

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So you are basically saying the calls evened out.

There was a big difference in my mind. MU drives to the hole often, as that is their style. When they did drive, they would get pounded on, but no calls. When Florida would drive to the hole, MU did not take the same approach as MU only has three post players (if you count Jamil), so MU was not pounding on anyone that drove to the hole. That was a major difference in my mind. Crowder was getting beaten on every time he got the ball in the paint. Van was thrown to the floor a number of times. MU did not get those calls at all last night. Young and Beal were beating the crap out of our guys in the paint and the officials were fine with it. It wasn't just the MU fans screaming about the refs, the local, neutral fans were screaming about it too.

And yet, if we made just a slightly higher percentage of our shots we win. That is what is so tough to take.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

So you are basically saying the calls evened out.

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No, I said it was an inconsistent first half. I thought the 2nd half was a better.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

There was a big difference in my mind. MU drives to the hole often, as that is their style. When they did drive, they would get pounded on, but no calls. When Florida would drive to the hole, MU did not take the same approach as MU only has three post players (if you count Jamil), so MU was not pounding on anyone that drove to the hole. That was a major difference in my mind. Crowder was getting beaten on every time he got the ball in the paint. Van was thrown to the floor a number of times. MU did not get those calls at all last night. Young and Beal were beating the crap out of our guys in the paint and the officials were fine with it. It wasn't just the MU fans screaming about the refs, the local, neutral fans were screaming about it too.

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Yep. I agree with that. I know Gardner was really upset a few times as well. DJO was hammered on a drive an just shot the ref a look of complete frustration.