Derrick Wilson

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11-16-2013, 11:39 PM
kneelb4zerg

Derrick Wilson

Will start every game the rest of this year unless he gets injured. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being delusional.
11-16-2013, 11:56 PM
Phantom Warrior

I agree with you. He probably will. But that doesn't mean he will play 38 minutes, like he did today, or even 34 minutes, which he did against Southern.
11-17-2013, 12:32 AM
mufansince72

Quote:

Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Will start every game the rest of this year unless he gets injured. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being delusional.

Then I will probably be complaining a lot this season.
11-17-2013, 07:22 AM
MUAlphaBangura

Quote:

Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Will start every game the rest of this year unless he gets injured. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being delusional.

It may or may not happen that way. The odds are that it will, but if Duane gets healthy, he is capable of replacing Derrick. Think we need an influx of offense to start the game. I kinda hope Duane forces Buzz's hand cuz that would be great for our squad. And unless you are Buzz, you really shouldn't make such definitive, arrogant statements to those whose opinions differ from yours. Hope it comes back to bite you as I think Duane, if healthy, will be just what the Doctor ordered.;)
11-17-2013, 07:35 AM
kneelb4zerg

The odds are stacked against any freshman to see major minutes in Buzz's system. They are double stacked when said freshman misses up to the first 2 months of the season and most of the early season practices. At best I see a 30/10 split developing by the end of the season and even that seems a stretch.
11-17-2013, 08:30 AM
TheSultan

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

It may or may not happen that way. The odds are that it will, but if Duane gets healthy, he is capable of replacing Derrick. Think we need an influx of offense to start the game. I kinda hope Duane forces Buzz's hand cuz that would be great for our squad. And unless you are Buzz, you really shouldn't make such definitive, arrogant statements to those whose opinions differ from yours. Hope it comes back to bite you as I think Duane, if healthy, will be just what the Doctor ordered.;)

I think greater hope lies with John Dawson than Duane Wilson.
11-17-2013, 09:24 AM
MUAlphaBangura

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I think greater hope lies with John Dawson than Duane Wilson.

Maybe short term. Can't imagine for the long run.
11-17-2013, 09:32 AM
TheSultan

I mean this year.

I think Duane is a little over-hyped at this point.
11-17-2013, 09:36 AM
MUAlphaBangura

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I mean this year.

I think Duane is a little over-hyped at this point.

What makes you think that? Have you seen him play enough to make that decision? Do you have info on his injury that makes you think he won't be a factor this year?
11-17-2013, 10:38 AM
TheSultan

I think we should temper expectations based on our over-hyping of freshmen previously.
11-17-2013, 10:48 AM
MUAlphaBangura

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I think we should temper expectations based on our over-hyping of freshmen previously.

Yet you think that John Dawson may be the answer this year? Duane is a better player than Dawson. I don't discount the over-hyping of new players, but some players can come in as Freshmen and live up to the hype. From what I have seen of Duane, he is capable. If he can regain health and make up for lost time, he is an infinitely better prospect at the pg position compared to Derrick and brings an entirely different dimension to the team than Derrick.
11-17-2013, 10:52 AM
TheSultan

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

Yet you think that John Dawson may be the answer this year? Duane is a better player than Dawson. I don't discount the over-hyping of new players, but some players can come in as Freshmen and live up to the hype. From what I have seen of Duane, he is capable. If he can regain health and make up for lost time, he is an infinitely better prospect at the pg position compared to Derrick and brings an entirely different dimension to the team than Derrick.

I think the chance of significant input from Dawson >>>>> change of significant input from Duane. Mostly due to not missing time due to injury. But I don't think we'll get significant contributions from either.
11-17-2013, 11:05 AM
warriorfan4life

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I think the chance of significant input from Dawson >>>>> change of significant input from Duane. Mostly due to not missing time due to injury. But I don't think we'll get significant contributions from either.

I think Derrick Wilson plays the most minutes at PG all year long, likely playing 30+ minutes a night on most night. However, I have to disagree with you that, as I think Duane Wilson's ability to hit shots and provide offense will provide a better alternative to what Dawson can provide (he's too similar to Wilson on the whole, but not nearly as good on D). I figure that we will see Derrick Wilson/Mayo and Duane Wilson/Thomas backcourt duos with a scorer and veteran combos. If Johnson can progress on the defensive end, and Jake cannot hit open shots, then he may usurp Jake's minutes.
11-17-2013, 11:41 AM
TedBaxter

It's all speculation, so here it goes.

Starting with the New Hampshire game, I think you'll start seeing Buzz change the playing rotations a bit. Dawson will see more early minutes at point and Mayo may start. JuJuan Johnson will play more as well. There's most often a different dynamic coming off the bench as opposed to starting and I think it's time to see what Todd can do as a starter.

If Buzz follows the Packers as much as I think he does, he's seen what happens when you lose a quarterback without preparation for the backup, so the worst thing he can do is give Derrick Wilson 35 plus minutes when he's an injury away from throwing a little used freshman into the game and that's why I see Dawson's minutes increase as there's no substitute for game time. I would also like to see what John can do with Davante, Jamil, Todd and someone like Steve Taylor on a regular basis.

As far as Duane Wilson, we'll have to see what happens when he gets back and as to whether he's better as a point guard as John Dawson, I'll let others comment.
11-17-2013, 01:13 PM
Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

Yet you think that John Dawson may be the answer this year? Duane is a better player than Dawson. I don't discount the over-hyping of new players, but some players can come in as Freshmen and live up to the hype. From what I have seen of Duane, he is capable. If he can regain health and make up for lost time, he is an infinitely better prospect at the pg position compared to Derrick and brings an entirely different dimension to the team than Derrick.

I can say with 100% positivity that you do not know that. Duane hasn't done anything in game yet. He dominated against D3 competition with a 5-star big man drawing most of the defensive attention. How many games of Dawson's did you catch in high school? I hope DuWil turns out to be a stud, but I hoped the same for EWill and Mellow. Maybe Wilson will be better, but there's every chance he will be as disappointing or worse. Until he actually proves something at this level, he hasn't proven anything. Dawson has shown flashes of promise. That's more than we can say Duane.
11-17-2013, 02:11 PM
MUBB713

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSultan

I think the chance of significant input from Dawson >>>>> change of significant input from Duane. Mostly due to not missing time due to injury. But I don't think we'll get significant contributions from either.

Have probably seen Duane play about a dozen times and can honestly agree with this. I doubt he is ready to run the team at point this year. He just doesn't seem strong enough with the ball yet and it will take him a while to get adjusted especially coming off injury. I could see Duane playing alongside Derrick as a scoring guard but Duane won't be taking many of Derrick's minutes this year I don't think.
11-17-2013, 09:25 PM
MUAlphaBangura

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewcity77

I can say with 100% positivity that you do not know that. Duane hasn't done anything in game yet. He dominated against D3 competition with a 5-star big man drawing most of the defensive attention. How many games of Dawson's did you catch in high school? I hope DuWil turns out to be a stud, but I hoped the same for EWill and Mellow. Maybe Wilson will be better, but there's every chance he will be as disappointing or worse. Until he actually proves something at this level, he hasn't proven anything. Dawson has shown flashes of promise. That's more than we can say Duane.

If you followed the Dominican team the last couple of years you would know that outside of their conference, they played mostly a Division I schedule. And some very high Division I teams at that. I saw them play Vincent and Germantown, both games D Stone was a non-factor. Duane dominated against Vincent and played very well against Germantown but did not have the support around him to win those games. Have seen him play several more times, probably close to a dozen. Had never seen Dawson play in high school(pretty obvious, and also pretty obvious that you are trying to call me out with that question), but saw as many clips on the internet as possible. I believe Duane would have shown just as many flashes of promise as Dawson had he played against Southern and Grambling. I know ratings aren't 100% accurate, but they tend to right the majority of the time. So Duane has that going for him. Those flashes Dawson has shown don't really prove anything yet because of the competition. Had they, Buzz probably would have given John some minutes vs tOSU. Not at all taking anything away from Dawson by saying DuWilson is better. Still feel comfortable saying Wilson is the better player.
11-17-2013, 09:37 PM
mufansince72

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

If you followed the Dominican team the last couple of years you would know that outside of their conference, they played mostly a Division I schedule. And some very high Division I teams at that. I saw them play Vincent and Germantown, both games D Stone was a non-factor. Duane dominated against Vincent and played very well against Germantown but did not have the support around him to win those games. Have seen him play several more times, probably close to a dozen. Had never seen Dawson play in high school(pretty obvious, and also pretty obvious that you are trying to call me out with that question), but saw as many clips on the internet as possible. I believe Duane would have shown just as many flashes of promise as Dawson had he played against Southern and Grambling. I know ratings aren't 100% accurate, but they tend to right the majority of the time. So Duane has that going for him. Those flashes Dawson has shown don't really prove anything yet because of the competition. Had they, Buzz probably would have given John some minutes vs tOSU. Not at all taking anything away from Dawson by saying DuWilson is better. Still feel comfortable saying Wilson is the better player.

Just walking the ball up the court and popping a three once in a while is a dimension it does not appear we have. I know Duane has that ability.
11-17-2013, 09:39 PM
kneelb4zerg

Quote:

Originally Posted by mufansince72

Just walking the ball up the court and popping a three once in a while is a dimension it does not appear we have. I know Duane has that ability.

Buzz never wants his team to do that anyway.
11-17-2013, 09:40 PM
mufansince72

Quote:

Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Buzz never wants his team to do that anyway.

He would if someone was sagging off the player and he made the shot on a consistent basis.
11-17-2013, 09:44 PM
kneelb4zerg

Quote:

Originally Posted by mufansince72

He would if someone was sagging off the player and he made the shot on a consistent basis.

Yeah, because Buzz totally wants his point guard to dribble up and launch a three without getting a paint touch or forcing rotation. There are higher percentage shots to be had.
11-17-2013, 09:58 PM
JDubMU

Confused

How many teams have brought in a top 5 (in some cases) recruiting class and only use one of those recruits for a total of six minutes? This is my one frustration with Buzz. Always going to favor upper classmen, but IMO they aren't always going to be your best option. This is one of those times. Also wonder if this isn't a major reason why we have a defection or more each year. You go thru a recruiting process painting a picture for these kids, they come in, and see no time. JJJ was reported to be one of the hardest workers early in camp and was "getting it". Then he gets a DNP???? What changed? These were the guys Buzz always said "earned" minutes. Im confused. But admittedly, I don't have a view from the inside. Gonna say that this current lineup will make for a very long season.
11-17-2013, 10:01 PM
mufansince72

Quote:

Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Yeah, because Buzz totally wants his point guard to dribble up and launch a three without getting a paint touch or forcing rotation. There are higher percentage shots to be had.

That's my point. That is how bad I think Derrick is! Duane would be more useful to the team walking the ball up the court and popping a three on an occasional basis. Believe me, I hope I am wrong. I love MU hoops. With that said, I am on record on Dodd's football board about five weeks ago saying that the Packers Defense sucked, and the only thing that was making them look remotely effective was the newly found ball control offense. Everyone thought I was nuts. Now five weeks later they are all wondering what happenned to the defense. I will gladly come here and take all the crow you can dish out if I am wrong about Derrick! Believe me, for the sake of MU Hoops, I want to be wrong.
11-17-2013, 10:13 PM
Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I hope you guys are okay with disappointment, because everyone is looking at Duane as a savior and the odds are he'll fall very, very, very far short of that this season. Let's at least let him get on the court before we paint him as the next great MU point guard.
11-17-2013, 10:18 PM
mufansince72

I'm not looking at him as a savior. He probably is a better 2 guard than a point guard at this point. I would trade a couple more turnovers as I believe having an offensive threat at point guard creates opportunities for others, because the defense would have to be more honest.
11-17-2013, 10:26 PM
Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I don't think he'd be nearly the offensive threat you think he'd be. Jajuan is a more heralded offensive player and hasn't made a major impact. And you can say all you want about not getting a chance against Ohio State, he was unimpressive against Southern and despite his offense against Grambling has been a sieve on defense, which is where minutes on Buzz's teams are earned. Maybe I'm just a cynic, but it seems like everyone is expecting the return of Duane to be the answer to this team's offensive woes whereas the likely reality is that he will just be another freshman that gets limited minutes while making a minimal impact.
11-17-2013, 10:29 PM
mufansince72

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewcity77

I don't think he'd be nearly the offensive threat you think he'd be. Jajuan is a more heralded offensive player and hasn't made a major impact. And you can say all you want about not getting a chance against Ohio State, he was unimpressive against Southern and despite his offense against Grambling has been a sieve on defense, which is where minutes on Buzz's teams are earned. Maybe I'm just a cynic, but it seems like everyone is expecting the return of Duane to be the answer to this team's offensive woes whereas the likely reality is that he will just be another freshman that gets limited minutes while making a minimal impact.

You may be right. The best thing about freshman is they become sophmores. With that said, I think there is much more upside playing now and getting experience, and improving, than sitting on the pine watching players in front of them who are not as talented.
11-17-2013, 10:35 PM
warriorfan4life

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDubMU

How many teams have brought in a top 5 (in some cases) recruiting class and only use one of those recruits for a total of six minutes? This is my one frustration with Buzz. Always going to favor upper classmen, but IMO they aren't always going to be your best option. This is one of those times. Also wonder if this isn't a major reason why we have a defection or more each year. You go thru a recruiting process painting a picture for these kids, they come in, and see no time. JJJ was reported to be one of the hardest workers early in camp and was "getting it". Then he gets a DNP???? What changed? These were the guys Buzz always said "earned" minutes. Im confused. But admittedly, I don't have a view from the inside. Gonna say that this current lineup will make for a very long season.

JJJ could not stay in front of his man against Grambling. Ohio State's guards are just a hair more talented, and JJJ would have been destroyed defensively (and the team defense that was pretty good on the whole and very good most of the game would have greatly suffered).

And seriously, Dawson versus Aaron Craft? Do our fans want to see Dawson's confidence shredded and wake up with nightmares of Craft picking his pocket.

Here is the picture Buzz can and does sell: Wesley Matthews, Jimmy Butler, Dwight Buycks, and Jae Crowder currently in the NBA thanks to his tutelage, Lazar Hayward a first round pick and millionaire thanks to Buzz, and three more of his guys in NBA camps this fall (DJ-O, Blue, Lockett), with two being last minute cuts (Blue and Lockett). Butler, Buycks, and Crowder all had varying minutes their first year, with only Crowder getting more then half the available minutes. Then they received the majority of minutes available once they become comfortable with Buzz's system at both ends of the floor. You can take the Jameel McKay route, and Buzz will not get in your way if you want the easy way out. However, your long term personal and professional development will be greatly aided by trusting in Buzz.
11-17-2013, 10:41 PM
Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Quote:

Originally Posted by mufansince72

You may be right. The best thing about freshman is they become sophmores. With that said, I think there is much more upside playing now and getting experience, and improving, than sitting on the pine watching players in front of them who are not as talented.

One thing I like about Buzz is that he looks at things in a season-long increment. Losses in November and December lead to wins in February and March. The goal is always going to be to be as good as possible come March, which means we aren't likely going to see freshmen playing to benefit their sophomore and junior year. Each season is about that season.
11-17-2013, 10:46 PM
mufansince72

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewcity77

One thing I like about Buzz is that he looks at things in a season-long increment. Losses in November and December lead to wins in February and March. The goal is always going to be to be as good as possible come March, which means we aren't likely going to see freshmen playing to benefit their sophomore and junior year. Each season is about that season.

Yes, but I meant these freshman will be better at the end of the season than the less talented players in front of them if allowed to develop now.
11-18-2013, 07:34 AM
MUAlphaBangura

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewcity77

I hope you guys are okay with disappointment, because everyone is looking at Duane as a savior and the odds are he'll fall very, very, very far short of that this season. Let's at least let him get on the court before we paint him as the next great MU point guard.

I do not think Duane is going to be a savior his 1st year. I don't believe anybody else on the board believes this either. My response was based on you telling me I have no way to say Duane is a better player than Dawson. Didn't mean to imply DuWilson was a great 1st year point guard. Sorry if you got that impression. Just my rationale behind my original statement.
11-18-2013, 09:39 AM
Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Quote:

Originally Posted by mufansince72

Yes, but I meant these freshman will be better at the end of the season than the less talented players in front of them if allowed to develop now.

Offensively, maybe. Defensively, I highly doubt it. And defense is what earns minutes on this team.
11-18-2013, 10:41 AM
MUAlphaBangura

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewcity77

Offensively, maybe. Defensively, I highly doubt it. And defense is what earns minutes on this team.

Agree completely with that statement, though that philosophy of Buzz's might be tested this season.
11-18-2013, 10:59 AM
mufansince72

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewcity77

Offensively, maybe. Defensively, I highly doubt it. And defense is what earns minutes on this team.

That is true, and has worked in the past! I think that may be tested a little this season though if the offense continues to struggle! Buzz will figure something out, he always does!
11-18-2013, 11:09 AM
Goose85

Quote:

Originally Posted by mufansince72

That is true, and has worked in the past! I think that may be tested a little this season though if the offense continues to struggle! Buzz will figure something out, he always does!

It will be interesting. Bo did that somewhat to Dekker last season. While watching some Badger games I thought, who cares if Dekker doesn't play D as well as Evans / Bruise / etc. You need points, get that kid into the flow and give him 30+ minutes.

Granted we don't have a top 15 recruit, but I thought at some point Johnson might have helped offensively, and if needed play a zone.
11-18-2013, 02:04 PM
mufansince72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goose85

It will be interesting. Bo did that somewhat to Dekker last season. While watching some Badger games I thought, who cares if Dekker doesn't play D as well as Evans / Bruise / etc. You need points, get that kid into the flow and give him 30+ minutes.

Granted we don't have a top 15 recruit, but I thought at some point Johnson might have helped offensively, and if needed play a zone.

We did play zone
11-18-2013, 02:21 PM
Goose85

When we did I thought if there was a time to put Johnson in, that would be the time.
11-18-2013, 02:25 PM
Phantom Warrior

When he was a freshman, Derrick averaged 8.8 mpg, so basically 9 mpg.

It seems to me Buzz ought to be able to give the back-up point guard at least the same number of minutes, but Derrick has played 34 mpg and 38 mpg. I'm very curious to see how the minutes at point end up being allotted once conference play begins.
11-18-2013, 02:56 PM
MUAlphaBangura

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Warrior

When he was a freshman, Derrick averaged 8.8 mpg, so basically 9 mpg.

It seems to me Buzz ought to be able to give the back-up point guard at least the same number of minutes, but Derrick has played 34 mpg and 38 mpg. I'm very curious to see how the minutes at point end up being allotted once conference play begins.

Goes back to the whole-- defense earns playing time-- thing. Derrick earned those minutes by playing defense. Apparently Dawson has not and DuWilson hasn't had a chance to earn them.

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