Dave Cooks out as coach at Marquette High

Per Mark Miller via WisSports.net, David Cooks will no longer be coaching basketball at Marquette High.

That is a high school job that will attract a LOT of applicants.

Can Marquette High School become a factor in basketball again?

I think MUHS problem is that they are going to be invariably stuck in the Division 1 bracket, which means fighting it out against the top MPS programs. They did it back in 2010...but the road is so much easier for schools like Dominican.

Nevertheless, isn't this a somewhat surprising move?

If they have the appropriate number of students that classify them as a Division 1 program, I guess I don't understand you saying they are "stuck" in Division 1. If you truly want to be the best you have to play and beat the best. I would more say Dominican is "stuck" in Division 4. I'm sure they would rather play a more competitive conference schedule. No doubt there will be some top notch candidates for the Marquette coaching position and would predict greater success 2-3 years down the road than they have had recently.

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Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

If they have the appropriate number of students that classify them as a Division 1 program, I guess I don't understand you saying they are "stuck" in Division 1. If you truly want to be the best you have to play and beat the best. I would more say Dominican is "stuck" in Division 4. I'm sure they would rather play a more competitive conference schedule. No doubt there will be some top notch candidates for the Marquette coaching position and would predict greater success 2-3 years down the road than they have had recently.

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OK, let me clarify.

It is easier for Dominican to put together a championship caliber program because they can draw students from the entire Milwaukee area, but are competing in Division 4. MUHS draws students from the same geographic area, but they compete in Division 1.

This is the main reason why private schools have done well in the lower levels, but have struggled in the upper levels.

Marquette should be able to compete with anybody. They have 1050 students, but for WIAA numbers they get bumped to 2100. They need to get their program back to where it was years ago.

Dominican is an interesting one. Need to see what happens with their staff. A lot of kids wanted to go there to play for Wollersheim. Will that continue now that Wollersheim is gone? Really not sure what will happen over the next 5 years there.

Dominican has some really good kids registered for the fall in the class of 2017.

It's a very good school and a terrific choice for a lot of kids on that side of town.

Agree Mark, I didn't mean it as a knock on Dominican, just noting that they lost a great coach.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Marquette should be able to compete with anybody. They have 1050 students, but for WIAA numbers they get bumped to 2100. They need to get their program back to where it was years ago.

Dominican is an interesting one. Need to see what happens with their staff. A lot of kids wanted to go there to play for Wollersheim. Will that continue now that Wollersheim is gone? Really not sure what will happen over the next 5 years there.

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I know WISAA also doubled the number in a one gender school. That is the reason why MUHS is bumped. To make it more comparable to a co-ed school (which 99.99% are).

Correct Mac, that is a fair way to do it.

As I am Hilltopper alum, this is the one and only Buzz rumor i'd be ok hearing

DSHA is in the same position as MUHS, and the Dashers have had consistent success the past several years. No reason MUHS can not improve its standing in hoops.

MUHS has been underachieving for years.

Cooks has an incredible personal story but is not a very good coach in my view. I know there have been many POd parents over the years. Some of it was unwarranted, assuredly, since parents are way too involved. Otoh there were too many complaints and not enough success.

MUHS faces numerous obstacles as it tries to compete with the Dominicans, WISCO's and larger public high schools so it will be a tough road to get back to the top.These obstacles include:

1. Rigorous academics for all (don't let these other schools kid you about who is doing college prep work and who isn't -- they have college prep tracks for their kids, but MUHS makes all of their kids take that track)

2. "Feeder" programs from Bay, Falls, Germantown, etc. don't let kids out of them (many have been playing with the same kids since 3rd grade)

3. Diminishing enrollment at Catholic grade schools (which provide MUHS with the bulk of their enrollment); most kids are going to their local public schools and don't want to leave their friends; there aren't that many great athletes at these schools (there are some - but not as many as in the public schools)

4. A cost of around $13,000 a year when you pay for everything (including books and meals)

So, it takes a special type of student-athlete to want to do this -- especially when their friends are hanging out every night and having fun while the MUHS kids are getting their butts handed to them in school.

What MUHS has returning for HOOPS next year is a decent group of kids...with a nice JV team....and a few good freshmen......they will compete, but it will be tough to be elite again.

Yes, times have changed. Tuition was $225 when I was a frosh in 60-61 ( though it did go up to $325 by the time I was a senior ). The academics were always there. The big factors are # 2 and # 3. Again, sign of the times.

Where did MUHS pull their students from "back in the day?" Milwaukee? Inner suburbs like Tosa? How does it differ now?

For Mark Miller or any one else who has watched MUHS. How good is Andre Goode's son? Potential D1 kid?

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Where did MUHS pull their students from "back in the day?" Milwaukee? Inner suburbs like Tosa? How does it differ now?

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Obviously, things change over the decades. In the 1960s (when MUHS was very good in both BB and FB ), most of the kids came from the North Shore suburbs, St. Sebastian's , Christ King, St. Mary's of Elm Grove, St. Catherine's, some from the South Side, etc. Virtually all attended Catholic grade schools.

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Originally Posted by eddiedswang

MUHS faces numerous obstacles as it tries to compete with the Dominicans, WISCO's and larger public high schools so it will be a tough road to get back to the top.These obstacles include:

1. Rigorous academics for all (don't let these other schools kid you about who is doing college prep work and who isn't -- they have college prep tracks for their kids, but MUHS makes all of their kids take that track)

2. "Feeder" programs from Bay, Falls, Germantown, etc. don't let kids out of them (many have been playing with the same kids since 3rd grade)

3. Diminishing enrollment at Catholic grade schools (which provide MUHS with the bulk of their enrollment); most kids are going to their local public schools and don't want to leave their friends; there aren't that many great athletes at these schools (there are some - but not as many as in the public schools)

4. A cost of around $13,000 a year when you pay for everything (including books and meals)

So, it takes a special type of student-athlete to want to do this -- especially when their friends are hanging out every night and having fun while the MUHS kids are getting their butts handed to them in school.

What MUHS has returning for HOOPS next year is a decent group of kids...with a nice JV team....and a few good freshmen......they will compete, but it will be tough to be elite again.

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Welcome back EddieD!

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Where did MUHS pull their students from "back in the day?" Milwaukee? Inner suburbs like Tosa? How does it differ now?

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Well - first off, Marquette is not hurting for students. They are at the same enrollment they always have been. With sports, I think there is a big difference from 'back in the day' until now.

"Back in the day", Catholic grade schools really were the only ones with sports. Basketball, football... in public schools you didn't have sports until you got to junior high. I knew a few non-catholic guys in grade school that actually took CCD classes and transferred into Catholic Schools just so they could play sports. Back then, the Catholic Schools were the feeder programs.

Today, all of the public high schools have feeder programs and they start earlier than the Catholic schools ever did. As Eddie pointed out, many of these kids start playing for a team early on and are with that team for 6 years before ever thinking about what high school to go to. That includes Catholic school kids too. There are many that I know that both parents went to Catholic grade schools and high schools but the kid has been playing for "XYZ Program" and wants to continue.....

Another issue is cost. People are not as willing to dedicate the costs for Catholic schools as they used to be, part of it is because of these feeder programs. There is a feeder baseball program where I live. They are switching from one league to another, in order to play more games. Now they will be playing like 74 games this summer. 74! These are 4th graders! So, the cost to play is like $300. Not a deal breaker. But how many out of town tournaments do they have? These families are getting hotel rooms every other weekend. Why? So little Junior can get a jump on high school tryouts in 5 years? These costs add up in a big way. So, when you are spending $10k per year on junior's baseball & soccer career, no way you can throw down more for school.

Final issue is that "back in the day", Catholic families had 5-6-8 kids per family. Now a typical Catholic family has 2 kids, 4 if a big family. The numbers just aren't there.

One last rant on select crap....

I have a friend who always bought into this stuff on the soccer side. Always told me "If you want to play in high school you have to start with select teams this early"... "you have to enter these tournaments"... "You have to scale down what sports you play and play 'your sport' year round!" Well, their older daughter is now a junior in high school. Raised all sorts of money so her travel team could go to tournaments in California and then Vegas. Great, right? After thousand and thousands and thousands of dollars, their daughter returned from the Vegas tournament and announced that she no longer wanted to play.

Yep - Burnt out at the age of 16, sick of the sport she played 365 days per year for the last 6 years. They were shocked, I wasn't surprised one bit.

Thanks for the explanation IWB. As someone who isn't Catholic, and who attended public schools his entire life before going to MU, I just don't have the background. I will admit when I first got to MU and met someone from Brookfield who went to MUHS, I was flabbergasted why someone would go that far just for high school!

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Thanks for the explanation IWB. As someone who isn't Catholic, and who attended public schools his entire life before going to MU, I just don't have the background. I will admit when I first got to MU and met someone from Brookfield who went to MUHS, I was flabbergasted why someone would go that far just for high school!

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Brookfield is far? When I went to MUHS I had classmates from West Bend, Germantown, Pewaukee, Oconomowoc - hell, Jere Pandl was from Oostburg. We also had guys that lived across the street. I know many people view MUHS as a "rich kid school", but that is far from being accurate. There are as many people from blue-collar families as there are "rich kids". Don't get me wrong, there are families that are wealthy, but that school is probably the best example of a melting pot that I can think of, many different religious, ethnic and financial backgrounds.

What is the tuition at MUHS nowadays?

edit: never mind - saw the post on the $13,000. That is a contributing factor to the shrinking numbers of Catholic schools . I can't help but think that if the Catholic Church wasn't having to settle (and rightfully so) with those that were abused by priests that there would be more Catholic schools around and for a lot loss tuition.

I graduated from a Catholic High School out east in '76 and the tuition was $600 per family!!! All ten of us kids went there and we had as many as 4 there at once or $125/kid. Yikes!! As a result, the vast majority of kids were middle class. Now, like private colleges, it seems like you are either super rich or super poor at a lot of the Catholic High Schools.

I think our Catholic grade school was for free. Changing times.

I probably went a bit too off topic - sorry about that.

I believe it is $10k

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

wanted to play.

Yep - Burnt out at the age of 16, sick of the sport she played 365 days per year for the last 6 years. They were shocked, I wasn't surprised one bit.

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Have a nephew who did the whole travel routine for volleyball. Did the same thing. Came back from a tourney down south and announced he was burnt out and quit just before his senior season. Doing fine now in MU dental school.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Brookfield is far? When I went to MUHS I had classmates from West Bend, Germantown, Pewaukee, Oconomowoc - hell, Jere Pandl was from Oostburg. We also had guys that lived across the street. I know many people view MUHS as a "rich kid school", but that is far from being accurate. There are as many people from blue-collar families as there are "rich kids". Don't get me wrong, there are families that are wealthy, but that school is probably the best example of a melting pot that I can think of, many different religious, ethnic and financial backgrounds.

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Compared to the commute to high school I had, Brookfield to MUHS seemed REALLY long.

Add in Books -- $ 600 at least

Add in Lunch Plan -- $ 500 at least

Add in participation in sports fees -- $ 50 per sport

Add in the $$$$$ they hit you up for -- priceless

Figure around $ 13,000 a year......

Caribou, you forgot to take inflation into account. $125 in your HS days is roughly equivalent to $20 Gs nowadays I'd venture to guess.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

I believe it is $10k

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I don't know how in this day and age anyone can justify 10K for high school. Go to a decent public school and save the 40 grand for college.

When I was young, the catholic 7th and 8th graders played 40-50 games per year and the public middle schools played 15-20. My freshmen year in high school 4 of our 5 starters were from the local catholic school.

Today, the catholic schools have rules on games played and playing for other teams while the public schools are club teams and have the ability to play an unlimitted amount of games. When my son was an 8th grader he played 10 games in the local rec program, 20 for his middle school team and 35 for the schools club team. It sounds crazy, but he loved it and he gained an advantage over the catholic school kids.

The advantage catholic schools had in the 50's - 70's has been reversed by club sports and the catholic schools tighter rules.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

I don't know how in this day and age anyone can justify 10K for high school. Go to a decent public school and save the 40 grand for college.

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That is an awfully judgmental statement to make. People make decisions that they feel are best for their families. For you to sit in judgment, in this day and age, is stunning.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

I don't know how in this day and age anyone can justify 10K for high school. Go to a decent public school and save the 40 grand for college.

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You do realize that in this very group, you have a number of parents who have made such a decision right? And I can think of a lot worse ways for someone to blow through $10k.

There is one example I usually use every summer with our softball team. We have a mix of guys, many that went to the local suburban public school, some from two private schools - a good mix. The discussion usually comes up once a summer and I always say this, "Hey, at your private schools, did you guys have bouncers?"

Private school guys: "What? What do you mean bouncers?"
Public school guys: "You know, to break up all the fights and stuff."
Private school guys: "What fights?" '

I went to Marquette High - in my four years I saw one fight. One, and it was a weak one.

It could be worse.......The tuition for My youngest son's Freshman year of High school is $23,000!
We live in Naples, Florida, and the public schools in this state are pretty bad, So this is the best option for him. As a parent you just do the best that you can for all your kids........

I will also add that I am a product of public schools...and is my wife and my children...and every single one of us got a very good education that has enabled us to do whatever we put our minds toward. Now granted I went to Madison Public Schools in the 70s and 80s before some of the city's problems got more pronounced. (And Edgewood's reputation wasn't nearly as good as it is now.) And my kids go to a suburban-type high school that has served them very well.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

I don't know how in this day and age anyone can justify 10K for high school. Go to a decent public school and save the 40 grand for college.

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Our family sends both of our children to Catholic schools in Madison. The money spent is worth every single penny.

There is a HUGE difference in the learning environment between competing schools in a lot of areas in Wisconsin, not to mention the faith component.

Do public schools have daily religion class, Mass once a week, annual retreats, service days in the community, service-hour requirements?

There is a difference. Not everybody thinks the money spent to send children to Catholic/private schools is worth it. Others, though, think it is.

I am among those who think it is. Thus I can "justify" paying 10K for high school and 3k for grade school.

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Originally Posted by Mark Miller

Our family sends both of our children to Catholic schools in Madison. The money spent is worth every single penny.

There is a HUGE difference in the learning environment between competing schools in a lot of areas in Wisconsin, not to mention the faith component.

Do public schools have daily religion class, Mass once a week, annual retreats, service days in the community, service-hour requirements?

There is a difference. Not everybody thinks the money spent to send children to Catholic/private schools is worth it. Others, though, think it is.

I am among those who think it is. Thus I can "justify" paying 10K for high school and 3k for grade school.

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At a school like MUHS (and DSHA, etc) there is so much more than just the building of a young person academically. Very special place. On the service aspect, you have to have a certain number of service hours and core service hours each semester. Service hours are volunteer hours, but core service hours are specific hours working with disadvantaged such as special olympics, etc.

I know people who have never gone to Catholic schools don't get it and that is fine, but for many that do, the tuition is money well spent. Most kids understand that their family is making a sacrifice and have a real appreciation for their opportunity.

Everyone keeps referring to IWB's "$10,000 tuition to send a kid at MUHS".....where do I go to get that deal? Please direct me.....I want a refund on what I pay....

I was ball parking, hoping that the number lowers in the next 5 years.