Big East name

http://tracking.si.com/2013/02/26/bi..._a12&eref=sihp

Now secure MSG for the tourney...

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Originally Posted by CaribouJim

Now secure MSG for the tourney...

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Winner, winner, caribou dinner.

Keeping the Big East name is nice, but MSG is the key. Assuming the B7 get MSG, there will need to be an official IWB board gathering at a local watering hole in midtown during the first tournament, as Hizzoner assumes most on this lard will be there.

The name's nice, but it is hardly critical.

Big East name is more crucial than MSG imo

I actually don't think either is particularly critical. Both would be nice at a reasonable price, but new brands and new traditions can be developed.

The Big East began and was on the rise as the NIT was fading. The BE Tournament really was kind of a replacement in ways and benefited, from the history of the fabled post-season NIT. I like the Madison Square Garden history and NYC market. How much am I will to pay to keep it? How much is the Big East name worth and would you rather invest the money in developing the resources for your school? Those are the conversations C7 school presidents, AD's and coaches should be having. It's important to keep the coaches in the loop -- they are the people who will make or break you program during this transition.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

I actually don't think either is particularly critical. Both would be nice at a reasonable price, but new brands and new traditions can be developed.

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Yes, I guess I could go either way on this. While it would be nice to have the name and MSG, these could have the effect of a forever cloud suggesting that the new conference will never measure up to the original. We shall see.

Agreed, I see pro's and con's to both, everyone needs to remember though that getting MSG doesn't come through negotiating with the remaining Big East schools, MSG gets to pick who they go with and may or may not have interest in the B7 or the Big East. The Big East name isn't worth much anymore, everyone will look at it and think its a shell of its former self. MSG on the other hand will hold some value because its not a big deal because of the Big East, it's the Mecca of basketball on its own.

I was watching ESPN the other day and they were preparing for an NBA game. I didn't get the name of the guy lacing up his shoes, but he said, and I quote, "Hell yeah I'm excited for tonight, playing in the Garden? This place is where everyone wants to play. This is the Mecca of basketball. This is the biggest stage in the world."

Now that is an NBA player saying that. It is the biggest stage. I don't care if they don't have Louisville or Syracuse or Pitt. It might not be the same, but no one will talk about the Greensboro Coliseum as the basketball Mecca, it has been and always will be the pinnacle of college basketball!

The name would be great - The Garden is important!

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

I was watching ESPN the other day and they were preparing for an NBA game. I didn't get the name of the guy lacing up his shoes, but he said, and I quote, "Hell yeah I'm excited for tonight, playing in the Garden? This place is where everyone wants to play. This is the Mecca of basketball. This is the biggest stage in the world."

Now that is an NBA player saying that. It is the biggest stage. I don't care if they don't have Louisville or Syracuse or Pitt. It might not be the same, but no one will talk about the Greensboro Coliseum as the basketball Mecca, it has been and always will be the pinnacle of college basketball!

The name would be great - The Garden is important!

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Staying on the discussion of what is more important the name or the garden:

What has helped the MU program more in the past: telling kids we play in the Big East or telling them they will have a chance of playing a few games in the Garden? I'm not discounting the alure of the Garden but the answer is clearly the Big East name.

What will help the MU program more going forward: telling kids we play in the Big East or telling them they will have a chance of playing a few games in the Garden? Despite many of the teams being different and some of the potential negative connotations with the Big East name due to some departures, the name still carries significant cache' on the national level and imo still has more value than the allure of playing a couple games in the Garden.

Both would be ideal but in choosing between the two imo the B7 should place more of it's resources in acquiring the Big East name.

it was Steve Novak who said that recently. But some others who said the same were: LeBron James, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant. Why do you think they loved to torch and tourture the Knicks ?

I disagree, the reason the Big East name was a bigger draw is because of who was in the Big East and all the pub it got. This new league won't get that kind of run and won't hold the same cache as the old Big East did, simply won't happen. The garden will be a bigger draw than the name. I'm a firm believer that kids are smart enough to know who they are playing against and that's why the conference names are important, you change the teams and the names all change meaning. The great brand of football made the SEC name, the SEC name didn't build the great brand of football. So you downgrade the football and people will downgrade the name. That's what is happening to the Big East. Kids aren't dumb, they are following this stuff and they know who is good and who isn't.

If the players think it is cool and it helps in recruiting, then fine, keep it at MSG. The coaches will let the Presidents and future Commish know if it important or not.

Other than that, I am indifferent. If it was closer, there is a greater liklihood that I would attend.

Not only is the Garden the biggest baddest place to play hoops in the world, I sure as hell don't want the ACC to ever host their tournament there.

I am warming to the idea of a new name, but sure do want to keep MSG.

The Garden is the best place basketball-wise without question. Is it sustainable financially? UConn and Syracuse populated the place the four times I have gone. Good showings from Pitt and Louisville fans too. The rest were just OK--including us. The question is whether there will be local interest. There will be a lot of Xavier and Butler fans in year one, but it is likely to drop off thereafter. Will the New York fans show for a MU vs Butler final? Creighton vs Xavier? Villanova and GTown fans would show for a big game because it is driveable--obviously St. John's too. As much as I want the Garden to work, I fear the roatation is the only financially viable way to go.

That's a really good point Gato. I could see there being a real challenge to fill it up.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

I was watching ESPN the other day and they were preparing for an NBA game. I didn't get the name of the guy lacing up his shoes, but he said, and I quote, "Hell yeah I'm excited for tonight, playing in the Garden? This place is where everyone wants to play. This is the Mecca of basketball. This is the biggest stage in the world."

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I remember the first time I walked into Greensboro Coliseum and the chills that went down my......wait, I mean the Charlotte..... oh wait.
Yeah, the Garden is a dump, but I still love walking into that place.

I think a great place to host the tournament for the first few years would be the Palestra in Philadelphia.* It is small, but that does not effect TV.* In fact the atmosphere would come off great on TV.* I also like the idea of demand for tickets being greater than supply for a few years.* This would give it kind of an exclusive feel.

The Palestra is synonomous with urban private school basketball and is known as the cathedral of college basketball.* It is probably the most famous college basketball arena in the country.* I think it would be just what this new conference needed as a host to really kick start a great product.

If the demand for tickets grows, you can always find someplace else.* Meanwhile, I believe the evironment would be really special and would get great publicity.

The most famous college basketball arena?!? The Palestra? Nope. I can think of 5 that come to mind before the Palestra. Cameron Indoor, Fogg Allen Fieldhouse, Rupp Arena, Assembly Hall, Pauley Pavilion, heck even Hinkle Fieldhouse could make an arguement that its more famous because of Hoosiers. That said even on a CBB level MSG carries 100x more clout than the Palestra.

If MSG falls through I'd suggest doing an alternating site between DC, Chicago, maybe Indy, or go for the Hail Mary and try to get the Barclays.

The Palestra is small and it is kind of a pit, but it has panache on the East coast. If you have that tourney at the United Center, you will play in a half empty arena with 10 beat writers and your tv partner as the only media in attendance.

There are many big name sports journalists who live and work within a 2 hour drive of the Palestra who would love to spend a day there watching great college basketball and wax nostalgic about the glory days of the sport.

I definitely can see where younger fans might not understand that, but for some reason, the east coast media loves the Palestra.

Plus each team would only have to bring about 700 fans to sell the place out. And Philly would support it big time. It is a big college basketball city.

Yeah, honestly places like Chicago and Indy worry me. The only problem with the Palestra idea is that it is pretty small. The A10 even moved their tourney out of there for that very reason.

The Big 10 is in Chicago this year and then alternates between Indy and Chicago. Those, to me, are not options. Further, the focus on the Midwest Media will be the Big 10 Tournament, at least initially. Thus, I would prefer to keep it in NY or on the East Coast (DC/Philly as other options).

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Yeah, honestly places like Chicago and Indy worry me. The only problem with the Palestra idea is that it is pretty small. The A10 even moved their tourney out of there for that very reason.

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It is small. I agree. Maybe too small. I just kind of like the idea of making it a tough ticket for a couple of years. I also like the idea of making it easily accessible to the east coast media at a place where they like to go. Let a day at the Palestra draw them in and then let the quality of basketball hook them. Once the tournament starts getting great press on the east coast, they can move to a bigger place. I would rather have MSG begging the conference to move their tournament there then have the conference begging MSG to squeeze us in around the ACC.

I don't believe this new conference is going to have the problems the A10 had. They had to move because ticket revenue is almost as important to them as tv revenue. Their tv contract is so small. Anyplace that would give them cheap rent and allow them to sell more tickets was going to be attractive. With the lucrative tv contract this conference is going to start with, ticket revenue loses its relevence. Let's say we think this tournament can draw 12,000 a day. The Palestra holds 9,000. Let's say a tournament ticket costs $400. That's $1.2 million in lost ticket revenue. That's a number that is very important to the A10, but pretty insignificant to the new Big East.

I like the idea of a packed Palestra rocking in prime time on Fox as opposed to 12,000 people rattling around in a huge NBA arena. I think the media would like it better also. Also just to be clear, I am not insisting that I am right and I doubt it would ever happen. I just think we need to try something a little different.

Get Madison Square Garden and hold on to it until there is a reason to not go there.

I agree that MSG is the way to go. However if it doesn't work out, I really do like the Palestra idea. Or even Hinkle Fieldhouse. Something smaller, more intimate, that can create a better atmosphere then the cookie cutter modern arena, would be fun. I like Orlando's idea as an alternative.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Get Madison Square Garden and hold on to it until there is a reason to not go there.

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I tend to agree with this, but one thing scares me. If we stay at MSG, the first thing every journalist is going to do when they walk into that arena is compare it to the way it used to be. Sports journalism these days is all about putting things down and finding flaws. Any comparison to the old Big East is going to come up short at first, and the new conference will get crucified for it. The media loves to pick at scabs. I don't want to look like the little kid dressed up in his dad's clothes. I want the media saying that this is a great product and a great environment. That won't be the story if we stay at MSG. Not at first anyway.

Just a thought, but why not pick a warm weather site? Orlando (How'd that pop into my head)? Just to be a little different like a bowl game... great for fans and players.

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Originally Posted by Orlando

I tend to agree with this, but one thing scares me. If we stay at MSG, the first thing every journalist is going to do when they walk into that arena is compare it to the way it used to be. Sports journalism these days is all about putting things down and finding flaws. Any comparison to the old Big East is going to come up short at first, and the new conference will get crucified for it. The media loves to pick at scabs. I don't want to look like the little kid dressed up in his dad's clothes. I want the media saying that this is a great product and a great environment. That won't be the story if we stay at MSG. Not at first anyway.

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That is a great point Orlando, but I would rather have them pick at the scabs as opposed to hearing them gloat over how great the ACC in Madison Square Garden is.

MSG>Big East name

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Originally Posted by wiscwarrior

Just a thought, but why not pick a warm weather site? Orlando (How'd that pop into my head)? Just to be a little different like a bowl game... great for fans and players.

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You don't want it here. Trust me. I love living here, but college basketball is an afterthought in these parts. You would get no local support at all and the arena is like a nightclub with a basketball floor in the middle of it. Half the people that go there, don't even know there is a basketball game going on.

The Pac 12 is moving their tournament to Las Vegas and apparently it is selling well. However, that is still somewhat within P12 "territory." There are no warm weather sites that can make the same claim of the B7. (Unless we include Stetson as a member.)

I agree with IWB on the ACC thing. That would stink.

That's the thing, doing it in a warm weather location isn't really about the locals in Orlando, it's about the fans flying in. If we can't get the Garden then I say we do something in Florida or hell why not go for the battle at Atlantis type deal. Your telling me that media wouldn't love that? Coaches could promise players that they would get one trip a year to the Bahama's, talk about a recruiting tool.

I don't think the media would like it one bit, and I don't think the coaches would be all that excited about flying to the Bahamas less than a week before the NCAA tournament starts. Those locations are great for Thanksgiving tournaments. Not for conference tournaments.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

I don't think the media would like it one bit, and I don't think the coaches would be all that excited about flying to the Bahamas less than a week before the NCAA tournament starts. Those locations are great for Thanksgiving tournaments. Not for conference tournaments.

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Yeah, I agree. I doubt the coaches want any distractions like the Bahamas for the Conference Tournament. Flying and accommodations would likely be excessive as well. I am not in favor of something like that at all. Keep it in the geographical region of the league. To me, this idea goes no where.

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Originally Posted by Orlando

I agree with IWB on the ACC thing. That would stink.

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The ACC will continue to focus on Tobacco Road. You might see them in NYC about as often as you see them in DC or Atlanta. They will not lose their NC roots.

VS

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Originally Posted by ValiantSailor

The ACC will continue to focus on Tobacco Road. You might see them in NYC about as often as you see them in DC or Atlanta. They will not lose their NC roots.

VS

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I agree. ACC will not lose its Tobacco Road identity. To NY or Brooklyn periodically.

More leaking out that it seems the B7 will be able to keep the Big East name and a very good chance the tourney at MSG, at least on a rotating basis.

Seems like the break will be after this year as things appear to be settling between the B7 and old Big East.

http://zagsblog.com/articles/catholi...ut/#more-89983