Handicapping odds of who gets added:

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1221382

At the bottom of this article he gives odds of who gets added... Not sure I agree, but none the less it's an opinion.

Assuming Xavier is a "no brainer" and IWB's prediction of a 10-team conference, then my hope is that the other nominees are non-Catholic schools. Butler, Memphis, and VCU would be my choices.

If we persist in the "Catholic" aspect of our new conference, we will eventually decline into irrelevance, as recruits will see "Catholic" as the first requirement, and "Basketball" as the second. Look at how the country perceives BYU. They're a "Mormon" school, and everyone associated with that school are members of that faith. Witness Jabari Parker, a top recruit who is considering BYU; why - because he's Mormon. Do you want recruits to look at a "Catholic" conference that way? How long do you think we'll keep our Coach, if he handcuffed by that unwritten rule.

The sooner we can shed the "Catholic" sobriquet and adopt "Basketball" as who we are, the better.

VS

I would certainly doubt that being a Catholic would be a requirement for a player or student to attend/play for one of these teams in a Catholic conference. I for one am not against adopting the "Catholic sobriquet", as you state.

Not sure whether it should be a "branded" Catholic conference but remember, we are aligning ourselves (rightfully so) with the east coast urban schools. At the high school level, in the east coast urban markets, there is a long, rich history of basketball success within the Catholic high schools........

Maybe this will surprise some of you, but I REALLLY DON'T WANT to be known as a Catholic league. This is about great basketball, and Catholic is just a distraction and an invitation to anti-Catholic bigotry. Though it is stated as being about sharing our values (e.g., vs cheating, lack of academics...), which in my opinion would eliminate Memphis (also a football school and we left the football schools behind). Butler is almost everyone's top choice, and I'm glad they are not Catholic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyRev

Maybe this will surprise some of you, but I REALLLY DON'T WANT to be known as a Catholic league. This is about great basketball, and Catholic is just a distraction and an invitation to anti-Catholic bigotry. Though it is stated as being about sharing our values (e.g., vs cheating, lack of academics...), which in my opinion would eliminate Memphis (also a football school and we left the football schools behind). Butler is almost everyone's top choice, and I'm glad they are not Catholic.

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Totally agree! I cringe when I see "Catholic" in reference to this new conference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyRev

Maybe this will surprise some of you, but I REALLLY DON'T WANT to be known as a Catholic league. This is about great basketball, and Catholic is just a distraction and an invitation to anti-Catholic bigotry. Though it is stated as being about sharing our values (e.g., vs cheating, lack of academics...), which in my opinion would eliminate Memphis (also a football school and we left the football schools behind). Butler is almost everyone's top choice, and I'm glad they are not Catholic.

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Thank you, JohnnyRev. You said it better than I.

VS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyRev

Maybe this will surprise some of you, but I REALLLY DON'T WANT to be known as a Catholic league. This is about great basketball, and Catholic is just a distraction and an invitation to anti-Catholic bigotry. Though it is stated as being about sharing our values (e.g., vs cheating, lack of academics...), which in my opinion would eliminate Memphis (also a football school and we left the football schools behind). Butler is almost everyone's top choice, and I'm glad they are not Catholic.

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.+1000000

Well, conversely, the league shouldn't shy away from good teams just because they happen to be Catholic.

There will three additions, one of which will definitely be Catholic (Xavier) and one of which is not religiously affiliated (Butler). For team ten, there are two very good Catholic options in Creighton and Gonzaga and one very good public one is VCU.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Well, conversely, the league shouldn't shy away from good teams just because they happen to be Catholic.

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If the league is concerned about the long-term viability as a high major conference, they should absolutely shy away - for exactly the reasons JohnnyRev specified. Most of the schools may well be Catholic, but that's not what we're here for. Don't let the message be confused; we are about Basketball.

Or we can be like BYU, making do with whatever Catholic recruits choose MU.

VS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ValiantSailor

If the league is concerned about the long-term viability as a high major conference, they should absolutely shy away - for exactly the reasons JohnnyRev specified. Most of the schools may well be Catholic, but that's not what we're here for. Don't let the message be confused; we are about Basketball.

Or we can be like BYU, making do with whatever Catholic recruits choose MU.

VS

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So don't take Xavier or Gonzaga because they are Catholic? That's idiotic. We can brand it as being about basketball no matter the membership.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

So don't take Xavier or Gonzaga because they are Catholic? That's idiotic. We can brand it as being about basketball no matter the membership.

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I don't think anyone was suggesting that (until maybe VS's post), I don't think JohnnyRev was even suggesting that. I think his hope was that we have at least 1-3 non-Catholic schools. I'm hoping both VCU and Butler are on the short list because while it would leave us primarily Catholic, no one could accurately call us a Catholic league.

You go for the best schools. At least 2 or 3 of the top 5 available schools are non-Catholic. That's just reality. If you take Gonzaga, Creighton, and Xavier that's perfectly fine, but the hope is you also get VCU and Butler. What I want are quality programs that are committed to building their basketball programs. The rest will fall into place from there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

So don't take Xavier or Gonzaga because they are Catholic? That's idiotic. We can brand it as being about basketball no matter the membership.

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It's not idiotic if it means the success of the league. But if you want to put all the major Catholic teams in a hole from which no one can escape, then do it. I expect Xavier will join; I hope the next two will be non-Catholic (Butler, Memphis, or VCU). If the conference expands to twelve, I'd take the one left out from the earlier list plus another Catholic school.

The point is that in the perception of the public, this conference must be about BASKETBALL.

The C-7 needs to become the BB-10.

VS

MU fans should ask themselves the following questions: if we wanted to upgrade our non-conference schedule next season, which of the following programs would we want to schedule - Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis, or Gonzaga? Which school would we want to meet in a major tournament? Which school would we most want to see visit the BC on a home and home basis?

I rest my case.

Butler or Memphis

VS

Almost a done deal, IMO, that the three additions will be Xavier, Butler and Dayton.

Dayton? Any reason why them and not Creighton?

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Originally Posted by BuzzWilliams4Pres

Dayton? Any reason why them and not Creighton?

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I am guessing geography mattered. For both the conference and Creighton.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BuzzWilliams4Pres

Dayton? Any reason why them and not Creighton?

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Sweetens the pot for Xavier - a traditional rival.

VS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ValiantSailor

Sweetens the pot for Xavier - a traditional rival.

VS

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Not a bad choice. I am not sure I would choose them over Creighton or Saint Louis, but not a bad choice. Dayton has been consistently strong, has made the NCAA tournament often, and has a good fan base.
They are a worthy opponent.

Love the school (my sister and cousins are there now) but as far as joining the conference, dayton just doesnt do much for me, sorry.

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Originally Posted by WindyCityGoldenEagle

Love the school (my sister and cousins are there now) but as far as joining the conference, dayton just doesnt do much for me, sorry.

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Agreed, however I'd change my tune if someday they go to 12 teams and add St. Louis and Creighton.

How is it that Creighton and SLU are that much more exciting than Dayton? Creighton is ranked right now, but what happens when McDermott graduates?

Creighton has one of the top attendances in the country every year, an impressive program.

Look at the Sargin ratings, those take into account the last 10 years and Creighton is ranked above Dayton... So I guess if your going to question what happens to Creighton going forward you have to question even more Dayton. Creighton was a solid program even before McDermott and everyone points to Dayton's fans... Well Creighton draws more per game so that's a moot point. Creighton brings everything Dayton brings except they being a little more.

I'm sorry but if you ask people around the nation what is the better basketball program I'm almost certain people will go with Creighton. Perception is everything right now... As for St. Louis I don't think they should be in over Dayton, but I think if we go 12 they should be in.

Fair enough re Creighton, but I still think Dayton is a solid choice which makes more sense than Creighton for a variety of reasons.

2011-12 Home game attendance....

Rank	School	Games	Total	Avg
The Big East 7
13	Marquette	16	242,205	15,138
35	Georgetown	16	180,530	11,283
39	Xavier	16	162,474	10,155
44	Villanova	15	133,839	8,923
54	St. John's	20	168,560	8,428
63	Providence	17	134,007	7,883
67	DePaul	17	123,832	7,740
76	Seton Hall	18	124,935	6,941
Big East Candidates
6	Creighton	16	266632	16665
28	Dayton	18	218776	12154
66	St. Louis	16	124106	7757
78	Butler	19	125376	6599
85	Gonzaga	18	105610	6212
Iscariot Wing
2	Syracuse	19	448,736	23,618
3	Louisville	20	430,052	21,503
46	Pittsburgh	22	193,616	8,801
61	Notre Dame	17	135,975	7,999
98	Rutgers	18	96,511	5,362
Unfortunate Castaways
11	Memphis	20	324,670	16,234
26	UConn	17	214873	12640
58	Temple	13	106143	8165
59	Cincinnati	18	145235	8069
92	UCF	17	97297	5723
USF, Houston, SMU & Tulane not top 100

I don't understand why Dayton makes more sense "for a variety of reasons"...... Such as? Creighton has more attendance, puts us in a market that we wouldn't already have (as would be the case with Dayton and Xavier), is a catholic institution (which some dont necessarily care about), is closer to Milwaukee than Dayton, they have a top notch soccer stadium and soccer program, if MU were to develop a baseball team they could play at the Home of the college World Series in the new TD Ameritrade ballpark, they would pull in more revenue and raise the price for the tv deal highe......maybe it's just me but I don't see why Dayton makes more sense than creighton

I don't think adding Dayton is a mistake, but I think not adding Creighton is. IWB I know you said that they will start with 10 but have they mentioned anything about going with 12? I just think 12 makes more sense.

Creighton versus Dayton is just not that much of a difference for me to get worked up over, for many of the reasons already stated on the insider board and which I am too lazy to rehash here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BuzzWilliams4Pres

I don't think adding Dayton is a mistake, but I think not adding Creighton is. IWB I know you said that they will start with 10 but have they mentioned anything about going with 12? I just think 12 makes more sense.

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I think we end up with 12 or 14. Quwestion is how to gravitate to that.........now or then....?

Well of course we will have to see how this plays out, but if it comes to 10 right now, it may well be that the league expands to 12 soon, and if so, SLU and Creighton are natural candidates. Perhaps the lobbying is going on right now. I would love to see them added, and I think that would make a great 12-team league, but I do not think their absence exactly ruins things.

In the Creighton vs Dayton debate, I give the edge to Dayton because of a larger east coast presence. All other things seem equal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MUBRACES

I don't understand why Dayton makes more sense "for a variety of reasons"...... Such as? Creighton has more attendance, puts us in a market that we wouldn't already have (as would be the case with Dayton and Xavier), is a catholic institution (which some dont necessarily care about), is closer to Milwaukee than Dayton, they have a top notch soccer stadium and soccer program, if MU were to develop a baseball team they could play at the Home of the college World Series in the new TD Ameritrade ballpark, they would pull in more revenue and raise the price for the tv deal highe......maybe it's just me but I don't see why Dayton makes more sense than creighton

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Dayton is a Catholic institution and is over 100 miles closer to Milwaukee than Creighton is. They are very similar schools, but Creighton simply has had more recent success. I really can't get worked up over one or the other.

After reading Dayton's board last night selfishly I want them to be left out... Their fans were some of the most arrogant I've ever seen. I was very surprised the negativity about joining the new big east.

Dayton's fans don't want in? Wow. Screw them, the only reason why they would not want in is fear of losing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Dayton's fans don't want in? Wow. Screw them, the only reason why they would not want in is fear of losing.

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If it's the UDPride board, they are delusional. He's been coming to Scoop talking about how the A10 is united and BE basketball schools will be begging for admittance when it inevitably breaks apart.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?act...9;sa=showPosts

One of the Flyer Faithful forwarded this thread. We've been discussing the possibilities all week and have also seen numerous reports from various sources. Some of our inside sources also say we're a lock, however, some of us are very skeptical that if it's 10, we could be on the outside looking in.

I would say that there is some disagreement amongst Flyer fans, however, the majority believes if given the opportunity to join the BE7 we'd be foolish to turn it down. We've been dreaming of the Papal League forming for years. Many of us know that joining forces with the BE7 will significantly improve our schedule each year and will work wonders on our recruiting and NCAA success in the long run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RudyFlyer

One of the Flyer Faithful forwarded this thread. We've been discussing the possibilities all week and have also seen numerous reports from various sources. Some of our inside sources also say we're a lock, however, some of us are very skeptical that if it's 10, we could be on the outside looking in.

I would say that there is some disagreement amongst Flyer fans, however, the majority believes if given the opportunity to join the BE7 we'd be foolish to turn it down. We've been dreaming of the Papal League forming for years. Many of us know that joining forces with the BE7 will significantly improve our schedule each year and will work wonders on our recruiting and NCAA success in the long run.

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Yeah, you can't turn this down. You never turn down an opportunity to upgrade your conference when you can. Marquette has moved from the MCC to the Great Midwest to the CUSA to the BE, and each step has been seen as a huge improvement.