Derrick vs Junior.....

Ok, with all of the people complaining about Derrick, let's take a look at Derrick vs Junior in their Junior years.

First off, remember that in Junior's jr year, he had already had a full season as the starter, and he was playing alongside Jae Crowder, Darius Johnson-Odom and Vander Blue. In his first year as a starter he had Dwight Buycks and Jimmy Butler - great players to work with in your 1st & 2nd year as a starter.

Ok, so at this point in their junior years......

MPG PPG Assists T/O Junior Cadougan 25.86 6.9 5.0 2.33 Derrick Wilson 28.9 4.6 3.8 1.3

Not that far off, and Derrick doesn't have a Jae Crowder or DJO etc. playing alongside of him.

Unlike Junior, Derrick doesn't force the action. He doesn't take risks. Junior had more turnovers, but more assists too. Derrick doesn't look for his shot, even when unguarded. He is looking to move the ball around the perimeter. Look, he is a fine backup point. He should not start.

I think sometimes its hard to judge a point guard by stats.

Many times Junior would look for a seam in the half court D..take it hard to the rim and miss the shot but because the defense had to converge on him it left an easy offensive rebound basket. Also if you make a good pass and Gardner is fouled going up for the shot…no assist but still points for the team.

Derrick is definitely better at not turning it over but teams have not pressed us this year either……..

The one thing that I did notice is Christian went off in the first half when Derrick went to the bench…….in the 2nd half he made those 2 tough 3’s but you couldn’t ask for better D then Derrick played on both of them…..

Sometimes you just have to credit the other team…...

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Originally Posted by Markedman

I think sometimes its hard to judge a point guard by stats.

Many times Junior would look for a seem in the half court D..take it hard to the rim and miss the shot but because the defense had to converge on him it left an easy offensive rebound basket. Also if you make a good pass and Gardner is fouled going up for the shot…no assist but still points for the team.

Derrick is definitely better at not turning it over but teams have not pressed us this year either……..

The one thing that I did notice is Christian went off in the first half when Derrick went to the bench…….in the 2nd half he made those 2 tough 3’s but you couldn’t ask for better D then Derrick played on both of them…..

Sometimes you just have to credit the other team…...

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Dawson went to the basket late in the first half and his miss allowed Gardner to follow up. Need more of that.

so what you're telling me is Junior was a below average starting PG in the BEast, and Derrick is actually the worst.

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Originally Posted by TedBaxter

Dawson went to the basket late in the first half and his miss allowed Gardner to follow up. Need more of that.

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Agreed. They don't have anyone that forces help, and that causes the offense to stagnate.

We complain about the outside shooting, but this is a root cause of their struggles offensively.

The only problem I have with Derrick is that he never attacks. He never puts the defense in a position to have to quickly rotate to help, which opens up passing lanes and open shots. The downside of him being so "steady" is that the defense has an easier time staying intact. That is why we struggle to get open shots and struggle to score. Sure, Junior would turn the ball over more, but he would drive full force at the rim quite a bit. By his senior year he had a mid range pull up that was pretty good, so he could punish the defender that sagged off him on his drives. Derrick has none of that, so we never get easy shots.

On the flip side, I don't see that in Dawson yet, either, plus he is a poorer defender than Derrick. So I don't really fault Buzz as he doesn't have great options.

Vander leaving hurts here the most. He could be that guy at the point this year, and Duane and Dawson might be ready to take over next year.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Ok, with all of the people complaining about Derrick, let's take a look at Derrick vs Junior in their Junior years.

First off, remember that in Junior's jr year, he had already had a full season as the starter, and he was playing alongside Jae Crowder, Darius Johnson-Odom and Vander Blue. In his first year as a starter he had Dwight Buycks and Jimmy Butler - great players to work with in your 1st & 2nd year as a starter.

Ok, so at this point in their junior years......

MPG PPG Assists T/O Junior Cadougan 25.86 6.9 5.0 2.33 Derrick Wilson 28.9 4.6 3.8 1.3

Not that far off, and Derrick doesn't have a Jae Crowder or DJO etc. playing alongside of him.

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So Junior was directly accountable for 16.9 ppg, while Derrick is accountble for about 12.2. That is about 5 ppg difference. That is significant.

I think the one big thing that DW doesn't do that Junior was great at (and I saw Dawson do a bit last night) is that he really pushed the ball forward, even after a made basket. We used to get a lot of easy baskets off of transition and just simple beating the other team down the court. X did that to us last night for a number of easy buckets. DW gets the ball and either walks it up or goes half speed.

Now that might be under the directive of Buzz for all I know. But Junior was so good at that.

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Originally Posted by IrwinFletcher

So Junior was directly accountable for 16.9 ppg, while Derrick is accountble for about 12.2. That is about 5 ppg difference. That is significant.

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You have to account for the difference in turnovers and the better defense to make it fair.

Fair enough. The difference in TO's is one a game. How many PPP does our opponents score on avg? 1? 0.9?0.8?

Factoring that in you are still around 4 ppg difference. Looking how we have fared in 6 of our losses, those 4 points go a long way.

Now in regards to the defense - I will let you try and figure out that statistical impact.:D

You also have to consider that Junior had Crowder and DJO alongside of him, Derrick has no one close to those two.

But one of the reasons DJ-O and Jae had such good seasons that year is that Junior was not only able to drive and dish or drive and kick, but he also forced the defense to adjust to his drives to the basket.

The other thing about Junior was that he often delivered the ball to Jae or DJ-O at the right time in the right location for them to score. I used to marvel at how accurate Junior's passing was. He would see DJ-O come off a screen and the ball would be right there at just the right height, leading him just enough for him to be in rhythm and knock down the jumper. A little later or a little earlier, a little higher or a little lower, and DJ-O's job was more difficult. The same with Junior and Jae. Buzz even commented a few times publicly on Junior's ability to make the right pass at the right time.

Worthen had that ability; so did Walton.

Derrick doesn't seem to possess that ability. It's a gift. Some point guards have it; many don't.

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Originally Posted by Phantom Warrior

But one of the reasons DJ-O and Jae had such good seasons that year is that Junior was not only able to drive and dish or drive and kick, but he also forced the defense to adjust to his drives to the basket.

The other thing about Junior was that he often delivered the ball to Jae or DJ-O at the right time in the right location for them to score. I used to marvel at how accurate Junior's passing was. He would see DJ-O come off a screen and the ball would be right there at just the right height, leading him just enough for him to be in rhythm and knock down the jumper. A little later or a little earlier, a little higher or a little lower, and DJ-O's job was more difficult. The same with Junior and Jae. Buzz even commented a few times publicly on Junior's ability to make the right pass at the right time.

Worthen had that ability; so did Walton.

Derrick doesn't seem to possess that ability. It's a gift. Some point guards have it; many don't.

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I agree with this. Junior had a knack of being able to drive to the hoop and score in traffic. Derrick is not able to do that. Most of the time, his drives result in easy blocked shots. Add to that, Junior was one of the best passers in MU history. He could drive and score or drive and dish. I just don't see that ability from Derrick. Junior always attacked, Derrick is more methodical.

They are different players asked to do different things. Derrick is less likely to win a game for you with incisive passes or miracle shots, but he is also less likely to lose a game for you with turnovers in traffic and shoddy defense. I think right now the hope is that Dawson can maybe stay consistent enough to start getting 15 minutes or so because honestly Derrick will probably be better if he has someone that can legitimately spell him and the entire team should* be better if Jamil is playing the entire game at the 3/4 positions. I still think the problem is more one of surrounding cast. Jamil isn't Jae and Mayo isn't DJO.



*This assumes Jamil plays consistently well, which the jury is out on whether or not he is capable of doing this.

Junior didn't have Jae or DJO last year.......Obviously he did have Vander.

I just think a game manager at point guard is not what you want.....it is however what we have.

ps. At this point in the season I think people just need to get off of Derrick's back...he is what he is.....he isn't turning into somebody else anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Markedman

Junior didn't have Jae or DJO last year.......Obviously he did have Vander.

I just think a game manager at point guard is not what you want.....it is however what we have.

ps. At this point in the season I think people just need to get off of Derrick's back...he is what he is.....he isn't turning into somebody else anytime soon.

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Agree 100%. Well said.

Yes, let's accept a level way south of mediocrity. No need to coddle the situation. He would be a perfect 7th-8th guy in the rotation but he is over his head. Hopefully Duane Wilson rides in on a white horse next year or you may as well write off next year as well.

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Originally Posted by bleedbluegold03

Yes, let's accept a level way south of mediocrity.

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None of us can do anything but accept it right? Unless Buzz posts on this board of course.