National anthem

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Originally Posted by MU/Panther

"Not as unreal as your belief that exercising the rights our military & protective services are sworn to defend is disrespectful"

Not sure where I said that. :confused:

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Our military fought for the right to peaceful protest. You call peaceful protest disrespectful.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

The question is worded to slant the responder to the idea that the players are being disrespectful. That's inherently confusing.

And I suggest you reread my posts if you think I'm "just fine" with kneeling. I would prefer everyone stand, but I abhor the notion that everyone be forced to stand. That is just anti-American to the core.

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People are simply expressing their opinions that the national anthem/honoring of the flag is the wrong place/time to protest. Plenty of opportunity to protest and make tangible progress outside the playing of the national anthem. The national anthem and the flag encompass the positives of America that outweigh the negative and the men/women that gave their life to preserve it. It is why so many people around the world want to come to the USA.

My take: both sides are right.

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Originally Posted by MUFAN2003

People are simply expressing their opinions that the national anthem/honoring of the flag is the wrong place/time to protest. Plenty of opportunity to protest and make tangible progress outside the playing of the national anthem. The national anthem and the flag encompass the positives of America that outweigh the negative and the men/women that gave their life to preserve it. It is why so many people around the world want to come to the USA.

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Protesting only when and where someone else declares it appropriate isn't really an effective protest.

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Originally Posted by Goose85

I'm not doubling down, I'm asking a question. I understand you point on the worker, fine.

Mac, I'm genuinely interested in your and others opinions on this as to what the protocol is for fans who are in the concourse or concession area. I always stop during the anthem, but it has always bothered me that people don't stop even though all can hear the national anthem being played. I guess many think it only counts if you are actually in the stands. Not trying to be idiotic, just seeing what others think the protocol is here.

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If the tv cameramen stopped working during the national anthem, we wouldn't be seeing any of this. Hey, maybe everybody should stop working regardless of their job. It would put a stop to all this nonsense from what happens on the field to what happens on these message boards. :cool:

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Originally Posted by MU88

In 2016:

Native Americans were twice as likely to be killed by police as Blacks.

Whites were twice as likely to be killed by police as Asian-Americans.

If this was simply about racial injustice against Blacks, the first statement would not be true. If this was simply about racial injustice to those not White, the second statement would not be true.

Look, everyone, and I mean everyone, is racist to one degree or another. We all are suspicious of things that are different. But, I am not so sure that race alone is the driving force behind the alleged abuses of police power or even a major factor. If this was entirely race driven, you would expect cities with similar racial makeups to be similar numbers of police shootings. But, you don't. Columbus and Oakland have the exact same percentage of Black residents, but a Black person is 3 times more likely to be killed by police in Oakland than Columbus. A Black is way more likely to get shot in Nashville than Raleigh. Why? Are Nashville and Oakland cops more racist than Columbus and Raleigh? Nor is crime the reason for blacks being shot. Buffalo has more violent crime and a slightly higher percentage of Black residents, but had no Police killings between 2012 and 2015, while Orlando, a city of the same size, less violent crime and slightly less Black residents, had 15 killings by Police.

Further, these stats leave out a couple of very important bits of information. First, how many Black cops kill Black criminals? Clearly, if Black cops are killing Blacks at a much higher rate than white cops do (and there is some research that suggests this is true), the suggestion that the higher rate of killing Blacks is a result of racism somewhat falls apart. In fact, if true, you may argue the opposite, that non-Black cops may be overly reluctant to shoot Black criminals. In addition, it would be interesting to know how many cops are killed by Black criminals versus non-black criminals. If Blacks kill cops at a much higher rate than other criminals, it would suggest a motive (not an excuse) for why more Blacks appear to be targeted by the police. Unfortunately, these types of stats don't exist or are unreliable.

My sole point is that instead of screaming that the police are racist who abuse power, we as a society need to come together and figure out the precise reasons why these shootings are occurring. Some may be attributable to race. But, are economic factors playing a role? Do different factors such as the type of police training, the makeup of the police force, or the demographics, such as age, play a factor? Are they the major factors? Only when we understand the full extent of the problem can the problem be fixed.

Finally, in 2016 it has been reported that 266 Blacks died in police shootings or roughly .00066% of the Black population in the US. So, you have a much, much better chance (about 10 times better) of being struck by lightening in your lifetime than a Black American has of being killed by the Police. I am not saying this issue isn't a problem, it is. Every life is precious. But, more Black Americans died in shootings in Chicago in the first half of 2017. We need to put this problem into context.

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Compare that to 13,000 late-term abortions in 2016, just in the USA alone, innocent children in the womb that didn't commit a crime or charge a police officer:

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...n-every-year-a

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Originally Posted by MUFAN2003

Compare that to 13,000 late-term abortions in 2016, just in the USA alone, innocent children in the womb that didn't commit a crime or charge a police officer:

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...n-every-year-a

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Good lord. Just stop.

That was a complete failure, at least from the point of the players. The Packers and Aaron Rodgers basically pleaded all week for the fans to lock arms in unity to support the players. What happened? Fans booed. About 10 fans locked arms. Fans were shouting "USA, USA, USA." JS Online poll basically is at 72% of fans don't support the players, 28% do. I don't think it is people don't support the cause, but they don't support the players right to protest or demonstrate on the field. If fans want to be lectured and told they are part of the problem, they can get that at home for free from Rachel Maddow. Hopefully this weekend puts an end to this nonsense.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

That was a complete failure, at least from the point of the players. The Packers and Aaron Rodgers basically pleaded all week for the fans to lock arms in unity to support the players. What happened? Fans booed. About 10 fans locked arms. Fans were shouting "USA, USA, USA." JS Online poll basically is at 72% of fans don't support the players, 28% do. I don't think it is people don't support the cause, but they don't support the players right to protest or demonstrate on the field. If fans want to be lectured and told they are part of the problem, they can get that at home for free from Rachel Maddow. Hopefully this weekend puts an end to this nonsense.

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Wow. That's sad.

You called it a "right." I support anybody's right to do anything. I support the player's "right" to kneel. I support the fan's "right" to boo.

I hope it continues because it shows how hypocritical our society can be. "Yeah we support freedom, but please don't make us feel bad or uncomfortable when you exercise that freedom."

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Originally Posted by MUFAN2003

Compare that to 13,000 late-term abortions in 2016, just in the USA alone, innocent children in the womb that didn't commit a crime or charge a police officer:

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...n-every-year-a

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I will also point out now in this topic that you not only have told people HOW they should protest, but WHAT they should be protesting about.

How very nice of you.