Buzz responsible for what we have become?

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

"Us against the world" is usually just a motivational technique that works for a short time. And in Buzz's case, "the world" started to include things like his boss and the President of the institution. If Buzz is going to be long-term successful anywhere, he has to understand that you can only be the scrappy underdog for so long. You don't need to exaggerate the slights against you and the obstacles you are facing. In the end, people don't really care - they just want to win.

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I think you can get away with it more at the college level because you only have kids for 4 years. It's when you try using that against the higher ups and people with power that tend to stick around longer than that that the situation becomes untenable.

That's why I think someone like Buzz and some NBA coaches like Scott Skiles or Tom Thibodeau are better suited for the college game. Some do tend to grate faster than others, though. Last year it sure looked like Buzz lost the team, and that his underdog mindset didn't resonate with everyone.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I think you can get away with it more at the college level because you only have kids for 4 years. It's when you try using that against the higher ups and people with power that tend to stick around longer than that that the situation becomes untenable.

That's why I think someone like Buzz and some NBA coaches like Scott Skiles or Tom Thibodeau are better suited for the college game. Some do tend to grate faster than others, though. Last year it sure looked like Buzz lost the team, and that his underdog mindset didn't resonate with everyone.

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Correct. And guys like Gardner and Wilson had enough of the same old war cry for all of those years and seemed to tune it out. Last years team was just a mess.

That is one way of looking at it. Another is that if Buzz were still here, Todd Mayo would be as well, and he would have brought in three more players, two of which were pretty good and one of which Wojo worked hard to keep. There would have been more talent on the team than there is presently. In addition, in Buzz's second year, I turned to the original poster at Midnight Madness and said, "It's going to be a long year." He agreed. I was shocked when the starting guards were Acker and Cubillian, two guys who between them had not played an entire half all season until Dominic broke his foot. Buzz lead that team to the tournament that year, mostly with smoke and mirrors. As for developing talent, he lost some guys, true. He also really developed Matthews, Butler, Crowder, Hayward, to name a few. I look at Buzz's tenure here and it was remarkable. Maybe he was due to burn out. But I would take that seven year period from any coach. As for last season, things did not go well. The team looked good at the beginning of the season, even without Vander. Despite the score, the Ohio State game was winnable if the team could have thrown the ball in the ocean that day. But it couldn't. And the team did not jell and pull off some big wins late in the season. Teams have disappointing seasons. UConn under Calhoun, Louisville under Pitino and Crum, Georgetown under both Thompsons, many others. Last year did not define either Buzz's career or his tenure at Marquette.

Very, very well said UJ.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

That is one way of looking at it. Another is that if Buzz were still here, Todd Mayo would be as well, and he would have brought in three more players, two of which were pretty good and one of which Wojo worked hard to keep. There would have been more talent on the team than there is presently. In addition, in Buzz's second year, I turned to the original poster at Midnight Madness and said, "It's going to be a long year." He agreed. I was shocked when the starting guards were Acker and Cubillian, two guys who between them had not played an entire half all season until Dominic broke his foot. Buzz lead that team to the tournament that year, mostly with smoke and mirrors. As for developing talent, he lost some guys, true. He also really developed Matthews, Butler, Crowder, Hayward, to name a few. I look at Buzz's tenure here and it was remarkable. Maybe he was due to burn out. But I would take that seven year period from any coach. As for last season, things did not go well. The team looked good at the beginning of the season, even without Vander. Despite the score, the Ohio State game was winnable if the team could have thrown the ball in the ocean that day. But it couldn't. And the team did not jell and pull off some big wins late in the season. Teams have disappointing seasons. UConn under Calhoun, Louisville under Pitino and Crum, Georgetown under both Thompsons, many others. Last year did not define either Buzz's career or his tenure at Marquette.

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Actually, Matthews development was due more to work with Dale Layer who left the next year. Yes, under Buzz's regime, but it really was Layer's efforts.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

That is one way of looking at it. Another is that if Buzz were still here, Todd Mayo would be as well,

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TAMU over at Scoop, who has connections of some sort in the Athletic Department, said that whatever Todd did that even Buzz wasn't going to be able to keep him around. I have wondered if it has anything to do with this.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/12/19/o-j-ma...uit-drugs-nba/

I don't think that is what TAMU is referring to.

I'm not going to get involved in any of the innuendo going on here but I know this much. While I admire the job Buzz did here and simultaneously dislike his rough around the edges persona, he did tell IWB that the recruiting standard changes set the program back 2 years. Here we are and that's 2 years assuming he was the coach and everything else stayed the same. I don't need to remind anyone here that much has changed in the last year. That's the story for me regardless of how much folks here want to blame him.

Meanwhile Virginia tech is 0-5 and 8-10. Buzz doesn't have the great history of MU to recruit players to Virginia Tech. No Al McGuire, Dwyane Wade, Steve Novak, Travis Diener, Wes Matthews, Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, DJO, National Championship, Final Fours or Elite 8's. VT has no storied history! That is why I always say that MU helped make Buzz. Just look at his first year (Seniors - DJ, Wes, Jerel and Junior - Lazar) Sure, Buzz busted his ass, but his same effort at VT may not bear the same fruit because Virginia Tech has no history of any success in basketball.

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Originally Posted by AbovetheRim

I'm not going to get involved in any of the innuendo going on here but I know this much. While I admire the job Buzz did here and simultaneously dislike his rough around the edges persona, he did tell IWB that the recruiting standard changes set the program back 2 years. Here we are and that's 2 years assuming he was the coach and everything else stayed the same. I don't need to remind anyone here that much has changed in the last year. That's the story for me regardless of how much folks here want to blame him.

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Buzz made plenty of recruiting mistakes that have lead to the problems we have had the last couple of years.