Tubby Gone

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Originally Posted by Halo

Nukem-not sure if this directed at me? Because I agree with what you are saying and my opinion was directed at Phantom who is blaming the MU admin for everything.

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Actually he's blaming LW for everything. Blaming the administration...along with the BoT...for some of the changes is actually more of an accurate statement.

3 - Sorry for excluding Arts & Sciences. That was not intentional and not a slight against anyone from that college. And yes, I was exaggerating with the quote of a $100m gift to the school. Maybe I should have said $10m, or even $2m. Either of those is still more than what a 4-yr player generates for MU at $370k/yr, which bleed quoted.

I agree with you 100% that a successful athletics program generates an enormous amount of goodwill for the school. Some staff from the alumni relations department came to visit me in Chicago back in 2005 or so and I explained to them the practical example of that. Illinois went to the Final Four that year, but by that fall, they had falling enrollment, the school was in shambles and they were searching for a new president. And I directly compared it to the positive impact that 2003 had for MU. The staff that visited me were surprised by the comparison and didn't realize it. So I get it completely and agree with you.

I also agree with you that these players make a large sacrifice to be at Marquette. But the message that bleed said is that because bball players (and I should note that bleed forgot to limit it to only men's players and not even women's players) are the only ones that generate a return for the university and therefore are the only ones who deserve state-of-the-art living quarters. And what really smacks of elitism is the exact quote I highlighted which said, they are the most deserving. Many student-athletes in other sports spend a lot of time on campus during breaks and summer. I knew quite a few of them when I was in school. Do they deserve any less because their sports don't generate a profit? Many students have to work their way through 4 years of MU, some working 40 hrs/wk on top of school. Do they deserve less? It is the success of each and every component of a university that makes it truly great, not just one.

I support MU basketball a lot and am as big of a fan as many. And I do think they deserve some extra benefits for making the sacrifices they do. But I will never put them on a pedestal and say they are the most worthy or only ones worthy of something when we all know that many students and athletes make extreme sacrifices to make it through 4 years at MU. And they are already getting way more than most students got while at MU.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

Agree completely. The student athletes are getting paid a tuition, room, board and per diem (well, except for after a game!).

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I agree completely as well.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

Actually he's blaming LW for everything. Blaming the administration...along with the BoT...for some of the changes is actually more of an accurate statement.

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Not so fast Sultan. All I was saying was that if Buzz took a lateral move like a MN job, we do have to wonderwhats going on. Could be the LW/BoT thing or it could be the new conference or it could just be time for a change.

I actually think athletes should receive a little something more than tuition, room, board and books for the effort. I think they should be given a little walking around money. It would have to be an NCAA mandated amount so all players at all schools received the same. It doesn't matter what sport you are in, the sport runs your life. They tell you when you get up, when you practice, when you eat, when you study, etc. I don't think it would be unreasonable for athletes to get $500 bucks or so a month to cover some expenses.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Not so fast Sultan. All I was saying was that if Buzz took a lateral move like a MN job, we do have to wonderwhats going on. Could be the LW/BoT thing or it could be the new conference or it could just be time for a change.

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OK...I get where you are coming from.

Buzz's name is mentioned for USC, UCLA, Minn, etc with some articles indicating that there are problems with Buzz and Larry. That has been no secret around here, and obviously not a secret nationally either.

If Buzz leaves for a school in LA (doesn't seem a good fit for him) or for a place like Min who has terrible facilities, then it is all on Larry I think.


Some problems with Buzz leaving (other than the obvious - we would lose a great coach and perfect fit for MU).

- What are the chances MU goes 3 for 3 in hiring coaches?

- Many think next year could be a special season at MU. What if some recruits don't come / players leave?

- How attractive is the MU job knowing the previous coach made the NCAA every year, 3 straight sweet 16 appearances, and wildly liked by the fan base was basically forced out due to a relationship with the administration? Tough act to follow.

- Does not look good for the new conference when one of your flagship schools looses their coach, especially if the move is considered latteral.

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Originally Posted by Goose85

Buzz's name is mentioned for USC, UCLA, Minn, etc with some articles indicating that there are problems with Buzz and Larry. That has been no secret around here, and obviously not a secret nationally either.

If Buzz leaves for a school in LA (doesn't seem a good fit for him) or for a place like Min who has terrible facilities, then it is all on Larry I think.

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You mean in the eyes of the general public...at least those who wish to assign blame? Probably. But I don't think he would deserve all of the blame.

"the message that bleed said is that because bball players (and I should note that bleed forgot to limit it to only men's players and not even women's players) are the only ones that generate a return for the university and therefore are the only ones who deserve state-of-the-art living quarters."

- the men's basketball team is the only team that generates a profit for the university. The revenue generated from one out-of-conference, weeknight game surpasses that of the rest of all sports for a full year

"And what really smacks of elitism is the exact quote I highlighted which said, they are the most deserving. Many student-athletes in other sports spend a lot of time on campus during breaks and summer. I knew quite a few of them when I was in school. "Do they deserve any less because their sports don't generate a profit?"

- Yes

"Many students have to work their way through 4 years of MU, some working 40 hrs/wk on top of school. Do they deserve less?"

- Yes

How can I have an elitist attitude if I am counting myself among those that should receive less? I graduated Marquette in '12 with a double major in the College of Business and worked 25+ hrs for the entirety of my college career. I will, with a 99% probability, not give the same return as any player and should not get the same benefits.

Again, the idea that colleges should put everything/one on equal ground is unrealistic and the real unfair situation. This in no way reflects the real world society that we currently reside in. Should an upper-level management person make the same as an entry level position?

They make $370k profit PER PLAYER each year. That's more than double what a player would get in tuition, board and food for a full four years. In what world is that fair?

There are a lot of good points in this thread from both sides. For me, it is not about the compensation, it is not about the equality between regular students and student athletes. It is about competition in the recruiting world - for both sides.

MU is much much harder to get into now that in was years ago. Mainly because there are more people applying to get in, which drives the overall incoming GPA up.

But now let's look at the recruitment of students.

In order to get a higher quality of student, MU is constantly upgrading the facilities, the class offerings, the student experience. There is a new law school, new library, new dental school, new engineering building, new living facilities/dorms/condos/apartments. The campus has been completely overhauled over the last 10 years. Why? Because it needed a new facelift? No, because Marquette needed to upgrade to stay competitive in the battle for the brightest and most talented students. MU needs to stay one step ahead of the competition to battle for these students.

Now you have an athletic department that is heavily funded by the men's basketball program. How do you recruit women's hoops players, soccer players, runners, golfers and lacrosse players? By providing them with the best coaches, facilities and opportunities that you can provide them with. Marquette needs to stay one step ahead of the competition to battle for these recruits.

Now let's look at the men's basketball program. The same applies across the board. In order to be competitive, they need the best recruits possible. What brings in these recruits? The best coaches, facilities, programs and success. You have to compete with the competition for these players every day. If it means giving them better living facilities than your conference opponents then that is what you need to do. Marquette needs to stay one step ahead of their competition.

Again - please stop comparing MU basketball players to other MU athletes and other MU students.

To attract the best students, MU has to offer more than their competition.
To attract the best student athletes, MU has to offer more than their competition.
To attract the best men's basketball players MU has to offer more than their competition.

Please stop comparing what MU B-ball players get as opposed to the rest of the students and compare what MU B-ball players get as opposed to their direct competition!!