OT World Cup Thread

Phantom, this is one of the reasons that the Us will not ever be good at soccer. All of our athletes that can perform at that level chose instead to go into professional wrestling.

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Originally Posted by pbiflyer

Phantom, this is one of the reasons that the Us will not ever be good at soccer. All of our athletes that can perform at that level chose instead to go into professional wrestling.

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Not true. As Suarez has proven, such an athlete could also join the Mike Tyson school of boxing.

I view the dives and making the most of challenges in soccer the same way I view prima donna wide receivers calling for a flag every time they don't catch a pass (as though they couldn't possibly ever just miss a ball, it HAD to be contact), NBA players that flop miserably (cough, Wade/James, cough), and frankly pretty much every other form of cheating from offensive lineman holds to pine tar on a bat or ball to you name it.

As soon as we start keeping score, someone starts looking for a way to cheat. Arjen Robben yesterday was infuriating and his blatant dive put Mexico out of the tournament, but there is an art to that and it's part of the game, just like cheating is in any other sports. Honestly, it'd be nice if the USA had a world class diver like Robben or Ronaldo. It might improve our odds of winning the thing in my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Phantom Warrior

I have been an advocate for soccer for more than two decades, ever since my son joined the Bavarians at age nine. Both my son and my daughter played premier level club soccer and school soccer. My daughter played two years of D-3 college soccer before transferring to UW, and my son was recruited by several schools and was told he could play mid-major D-1 (though he gave up soccer after high school).

I coached soccer for 10 years at the school where I taught, and each year I came to appreciate the game more and more as I began to understand some of the game's nuances.

However, after watching about a half dozen World Cup games, my attitude about the sport - at least as it is played at the highest level - is changing. I will still watch the game Tuesday against Belgium, of course, but I am growing incredibly weary of watching players end up on the ground - often writhing in apparent agony - at least once every two or three minutes, and sometimes three or four times in a single minute.

If I had the patience, I would chart how many times a player ends up on the ground following contact with an opponent. My guess is the count would be somewhere around 50, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were much higher. Yes, the players are incredibly skilled, and they are extremely athletic. But I find the style of play almost unbearable to watch.

I enjoyed watching the U-17 Bavarians play the U-17 Brookfield Soccer Club team in 2000 much more than I've enjoyed watching the best soccer players in the world knock each other to the turf.

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I call BS. You're saying 50 times a player goes down in a 90 minute match? I need to start charting this, but in the games I've watched, the number of stoppages for an injury appears to be 6-8, maybe 10 at most. Maybe a couple more over the weekend with the matches going 120 minutes. Do you have an issue with NFL and college football players going down? Those games have at least a couple of stoppages every game for an injury and studies have shown there is only about 15 minutes of action in a 60 minute football game. The ball is in play for nearly the entire 90 minutes in soccer. There are no automatic rests or substitutions like there are in other sports. You play the entire game. That will lead to the increase in fatigue and injuries. Do soccer players fake or embellish an injury? Of course they do. Is that any different than a football player that falls down to stop play? This isn't an anti-football post, I'm just trying to point out that it happens in other sports.

I'm not talking only about the "injuries" - real or faked. I'm talking about the number of times a player ends up on the ground and the flow of play is stopped - period. Count the number of fouls - regardless of where they occur on the field. Yes, I'll wager the number is close to 50 on average in a 90-minute game. Each one leads to a stoppage of play - some fairly short, some a good deal longer (especially if they involve a yellow card).

As far as other sports, I feel the same way about an NFL game that has 30+ penalties or an NCAA or NBA basketball game that has 50+ fouls. I don't enjoy watching any of those because of all the stoppages of play. Now, an NFL football game with 10-15 penalties, or an NCAA or NBA basketball game with 25-30 fouls - those I can usually enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Phantom Warrior

I'm not talking only about the "injuries" - real or faked. I'm talking about the number of times a player ends up on the ground and the flow of play is stopped - period. Count the number of fouls - regardless of where they occur on the field. Yes, I'll wager the number is close to 50 on average in a 90-minute game. Each one leads to a stoppage of play - some fairly short, some a good deal longer (especially if they involve a yellow card).

As far as other sports, I feel the same way about an NFL game that has 30+ penalties or an NCAA or NBA basketball game that has 50+ fouls. I don't enjoy watching any of those because of all the stoppages of play. Now, an NFL football game with 10-15 penalties, or an NCAA or NBA basketball game with 25-30 fouls - those I can usually enjoy.

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I'll wager the number is way lower. Just using the US games, 22 total fouls in the Ghana match, 25 in the Portugal match, and 24 in the Germany match. That's 71 fouls in over 270 minutes. Not all of those fouls result in a delay. Compared to the other major sports, there are far fewer stoppages in soccer than basketball, football, hockey, or baseball.

I think this has been one of the most entertaining World Cups ever.

Brew City, I like the lineup, but I'd keep Fabian in the back. It sounds like Belgium plays a high line and are susceptible to flank runs. Fabian should have a field day at that. I'd also like to see Mix in there. I'd put Johansson up top with Dempsey. Put Jones on the left wing, move Bradley back and on the right side, Beckerman centralized and put Mix in the 10 role. Jones can attack from the wing, cut back and let one of his thunderous right footed shots go.

--------------------------------Dempsey------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------Johansson-------------------------------

---------------------------------------Diskerud------------------------------------------

--------------------Jones-----------Beckerman--------------Bradley-----------------

-----Beas---------------Besler----------------Gonzalez-------------Johnson--------

I honestly struggle to understand how people can watch American football and not get bored. 11 minutes of action over a 3-hour period? Wall Street Journal did a study and that's it. You spend 2 hours and 49 minutes watching replays, commercials, sideline shots, and Chris Berman at halftime. 11 minutes of action in 3 hours.

Anyway...my worry with that lineup Crisco is there's not much real width to it. One of Belgium's biggest weaknesses is that they are playing 4 central defenders at the back, so I love the idea of being able to get Beasley, Johnson, and Yedlin all raiding down the flanks. Johannsson was just so poor against Ghana, starting him in a game of this magnitude would terrify me.

Either way, I really think Mix is key. Can't wait to see tomorrow's lineup, and hope Jurgen gets him in there.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I honestly struggle to understand how people can watch American football and not get bored. 11 minutes of action over a 3-hour period? Wall Street Journal did a study and that's it. You spend 2 hours and 49 minutes watching replays, commercials, sideline shots, and Chris Berman at halftime. 11 minutes of action in 3.

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OTOH, watching people run around for a couple hours achieving virtually nothing is rather like watching grass grow. :)

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

OTOH, watching people run around for a couple hours achieving virtually nothing is rather like watching grass grow. :)

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Take away field goals - is there any more useless play in football - and you're left with about the same number of scores between a typical contest in football and soccer. You just have more points awarded in football. But there are many, many more scoring opportunities in a typical soccer contest.

VS

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Originally Posted by ValiantSailor

Take away field goals - is there any more useless play in football - and you're left with about the same number of scores between a typical contest in football and soccer. You just have more points awarded in football. But there are many, many more scoring opportunities in a typical soccer contest.

VS

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Hockey is a lot more exciting than soccer, especially if one is sitting close to a net. Both are boring. NFL $$$ are much greater in the US.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

OTOH, watching people run around for a couple hours achieving virtually nothing is rather like watching grass grow. :)

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Fallacies like that are why people like Ann Coulter are employed and the sport is so misunderstood in this country. No offense taken, but it's simply untrue. The thing with soccer, if you walk away you actually miss something. Watching NFL, you can walk away for 5 minutes and come back and literally nothing will have happened. A few replays, maybe a measurement, and a commercial break. That's why I can't watch it, because there's really so little to watch.

I agree that Hockey is fantastic. Love the sport. For me, soccer and basketball are 1 and 1a, then hockey, then pretty much everything else. Baseball and American football are really tough for me to actually invest myself in. Just so slow paced.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

Fallacies like that are why people like Ann Coulter are employed and the sport is so misunderstood in this country. No offense taken, but it's simply untrue. The thing with soccer, if you walk away you actually miss something. Watching NFL, you can walk away for 5 minutes and come back and literally nothing will have happened. A few replays, maybe a measurement, and a commercial break. That's why I can't watch it, because there's really so little to watch.

I agree that Hockey is fantastic. Love the sport. For me, soccer and basketball are 1 and 1a, then hockey, then pretty much everything else. Baseball and American football are really tough for me to actually invest myself in. Just so slow paced.

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To each his own. Let's talk basketball here.

Anne Coulter is an idiot who makes lots of money saying outrageous things. To suggest that a particular sport is contributing to the "moral decline" of the country is ridiculous. Even if one were to accept that, a much better claim could be made for football, which has been shown to cause lasting disabilities to the people who play it. The fact that soccer is gaining in popularity in part because of the increase in immigrants from the countries that play it is true, but most people would think that a good thing. She may have a point that fewer people whose great-grandparents were born in this country like the game, But that would exclude most of the population. How many people have eight great-grandparents who are native born? (Ironically, a large number of the people who do are African Americans. She's right. They tend to like basketball.)

It comes down to a matter of taste. The main reason soccer has not caught on in this country to the extent it has in the rest of the world is that other sports became established first. Add to that the fact that it has often been popular in other countries because it is cheap and easy to play. You do not need lots of equipment or uniforms, the rules are pretty simple, and kids can play it for endless hours. In this country, that role was filled by basketball, but even in that sport, it is just about impossible to play without a regulation hoop and ball.

Personally, the reason I am an every-four-year fan is that the game has not caught on in this country yet, and I did not grow up cheering for one team or another, and I am not interested enough to follow a league in a foreign country. But I find the tournament fascinating and the games enjoyable. Like any other sport, you can enjoy it more when you figure out what is going on. I skip over the posts here suggesting strategies and line-ups. Frankly, I do not know enough to understand them. But the games have been great and very exciting. It is really fun sitting in a big crowd of people and cheering together on every play. As for the lack of scoring, that again is a matter of taste. I am a big baseball fan. I love the game, its history, its rhythms, its strategy. It is fun to watch a game with lots of scoring, but the most exciting game I ever saw was the seventh game of the 1991 World Series, which ended 1-0 after ten innings.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

To each his own. Let's talk basketball here.

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Not in this thread!

And I love hockey, too!

VS

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Originally Posted by ValiantSailor

Not in this thread!

And I love hockey, too!

VS

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Well,as suggested very early in this thread, this subject could move to IWBs OT board. :)

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Originally Posted by ValiantSailor

Take away field goals - is there any more useless play in football - and you're left with about the same number of scores between a typical contest in football and soccer. You just have more points awarded in football. But there are many, many more scoring opportunities in a typical soccer contest.

VS

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I watch incrementally less football each year, particularly college - barely watch college games anymore - games take way, way too long (hate the OT rules) and it is dominated by the blue bloods (right now the SEC) year-in-year out even way more than college b-ball.

Growing up in Western NY I was an AFL fan (Bills) - liked their more wide open style of game with passing a much larger part of the game than in the NFL. But overall there was more of a balance between running and passing. Now it has swung way, way too far to the passing game IMO. Running back back used to be the sexiest position and now it is almost a commodity. I miss those types of runs that you see from NFL Films - Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, O.J. (murderer), Walter, Barry Sanders, Dickerson to name a few. A good run is a thing of beauty.

That and it is way overexposed for my taste and they take themselves so damn seriously -saying "National Football League" instead of "NFL" for example. ESPN's programming is 24/7/365 - just non-stop.

All that and it is just an absolutely brutal game - the cliche' fits - they really are modern day gladiators, although well paid and participate voluntarily.

The World Cup is getting huge ratings this year in the US. The US has bought more tickets than any other country besides Brazil. There is a greater amount of interest in the World Cup this year than even four years ago. Last Sunday, they had to shut down Brady St because people were overflowing out of the bars because they wanted to be there for the game. The older generation is still has that,"I hate soccer attitude," but for the younger crowd, most everyone I know is following it. Soccer has caught on in this country. I am fine with that fever only happening every four years, but that's part of what makes the World Cup special.

Attachment 758

My buddy sent me this. Great rant.

From ESPN:

"The three U.S. group-stage games averaged more than 18 million viewers between English-language ESPN and Spanish-language Univision. The 2-2 Sunday evening draw with Portugal was the most-watched soccer game in American history with 24.7 million TV viewers.

The finale against Germany started at noon ET Thursday when much of the country was at work -- or at least supposed to be. A record audience of 1.05 million streamed that match on WatchESPN.

"Four years ago, it was impressive, and the fact that it seems even bigger now is a testament to our country," Howard said. "I don't know if we can get that type of electricity every weekend. I don't think that's where we're at as a country in terms of the soccer fanaticism."

By comparison, Boston's six-game World Series win over St. Louis in October averaged 14.9 million viewers on Fox, San Antonio's five-game victory over Miami in this month's NBA Finals averaged 15.5 million on ABC, and Los Angeles' five-game win over the New York Rangers in the NHL's Stanley Cup finals averaged 5 million on NBC and NBCSN.

But American football is still the king in the U.S. The opening weekend of the NFL playoffs last season averaged 34.7 million viewers for four games."

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Originally Posted by Mucrisco

The World Cup is getting huge ratings this year in the US. The US has bought more tickets than any other country besides Brazil. There is a greater amount of interest in the World Cup this year than even four years ago. Last Sunday, they had to shut down Brady St because people were overflowing out of the bars because they wanted to be there for the game. The older generation is still has that,"I hate soccer attitude," but for the younger crowd, most everyone I know is following it. Soccer has caught on in this country. I am fine with that fever only happening every four years, but that's part of what makes the World Cup special.

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It's not just the WC. A lot of 20 some year olds watch the EPL on Saturdays and Sundays as well.

And they don't see anything strange about watching soccer, football, baseball, basketball, etc. It's just one of the sports they like. It's not an either/or scenario.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Well,as suggested very early in this thread, this subject could move to IWBs OT board. :)

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I'm sure I'm not the only one who logs directly to the MU boards here, and there's a big "OT" in the title ;)

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I'm sure I'm not the only one who logs directly to the MU boards here, and there's a big "OT" in the title ;)

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I am not a soccer fan, but I am fine having this thread on the board. As evidenced by this thread, many MU fans are also soccer fans, so by putting it on the MU section people see it and comment on it too. In reality most of us really just look at the MU threads, so if putting it in with the MU hoops it gets more attention, ok. Now if there were 20 different threads about soccer I could see it being an issue.

The heading is OT - World Cup so as a non soccer fan I don't have to read it. I have just because I like to get the perspective of those that follow soccer as I don't. World Cup is a cool event. Easy enough for me to look at the thread title and decide to read it or not.

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Originally Posted by Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"

I'm sure I'm not the only one who logs directly to the MU boards here, and there's a big "OT" in the title ;)

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Just click on BCB home. How do you like the Heldt commit as we try to talk BB on a BB board. :D

If U.S. can win today, and that's a big if, then Argentina is certainly beatable. The Argentines seem to be missing that playmaking midfielder to set up their attackers (Di Maria is playing more advanced role for Argentines then he does for Real Madrid). The Swiss needed to capitalize on one of their earlier opportunities, and it would be key for the U.S. to nip an early goal or two.

Definitely first things first with a supremely talented Belgium team today (that hopefully continues their struggles in meshing as a team), but this is not an impossible road to conquer.

"Klinsmann also confirmed that Alejandro Bedoya and Graham Zusi will be among the starters.The Americans try to reach the World Cup quarterfinals for the first time since 2002 when they face Belgium in the knockout round."

Looks like we won't have Mix among the starters. Probably Dempsey up top in a 4-5-1 again.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Just click on BCB home. How do you like the Heldt commit as we try to talk BB on a BB board. :D

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Hmmm...the OT thread on the Bucks and Kidd was moved off this board today. Suspect a 6 page OT soccer thread (to date) could be moved as well. At least the Bucks thread was on BB. I get that a few of you enjoy soccer, but this is of very limited interest to many of us and this OT just clutters the top of the board.

Wow, no Beckerman in the lineup. Cameron is in the midfield and they are playing a 4-3-3 with Bedoya and Zusi up top with Dempsey. It will probably more resemble a 4-5-1.

I've actually liked Cameron in a defensive midfield role, and not a bad idea to get fresh legs in the line-up. I would like to see Mix and Johannsson if a goal is needed in the second half. Cannot risk Jozy as a sub, and he either had to start or wait until the next game.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Hmmm...the OT thread on the Bucks and Kidd was moved off this board today. Suspect a 6 page OT soccer thread (to date) could be moved as well. At least the Bucks thread was on BB. I get that a few of you enjoy soccer, but this is of very limited interest to many of us and this OT just clutters the top of the board.

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Hey Nukem, I like you but knock it off. There have been 7 active threads on this board between yesterday and today. None of them directly involve Marquette basketball. One involves the Brewers. One involved the Bucks. One has no responses and is about an athlete's Bill of Rights. Yet you choose to whine and whine about a Soccer thread that is 11 pages long. How can you claim there is limited interest when it's the longest most active thread, currently on the board. How is it cluttering the board when there are no other topics to discuss that directly involve Marquette basketball? Cut it out.

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Originally Posted by Mucrisco

Hey Nukem, I like you but knock it off. There have been 7 active threads on this board between yesterday and today. None of them directly involve Marquette basketball. One involves the Brewers. One involved the Bucks. One has no responses and is about an athlete's Bill of Rights. Yet you choose to whine and whine about a Soccer thread that is 11 pages long. How can you claim there is limited interest when it's the longest most active thread, currently on the board. How is it cluttering the board when there are no other topics to discuss that directly involve Marquette basketball? Cut it out.

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OK........but, no more soccer after this Cup is over. Please observe and use the OT board until the next soccer World Cup....;)

Man, I'm exhausted. What a game. I don't think Cameron, Bedoya, and especially Zusi did us any favors out there. Yedlin proved he belonged. That was a great run and finish from Green. That's all you need from a guy like that. One touch can change the game. Brooks did well when he was out there. I would have liked to have seen Mix out there instead of Zusi. Wondo was invisible. Howard is a beast.

I BELIEVE THAT WE JUST LOST!

But it was a lot of fun. The best part for me was hanging out at the bar down the block. They had all the games on, and most of them on a theater sized big screen. It was fun cheering along with people I had never met. I can certainly see how the World Cup can be a national unifier. So I will watch the rest of the tournament, then it is back into my shell for another four years, or at least until qualifying starts again. But I did learn a lot and gained an appreciation for the game.

Soccer and basketball are the world's 2 most popular sports. Outside the USA, soccer is the clear-cut #1. The 2010 and 2014 World Cup, with the USA advancing to the Round of 16 and having every match covered by ESPN has helped the cause in America. I am glad Klinsmann is signed through the 2018 World Cup. He instills confidence in the players and it showed playing in the toughest group of the 8 groups. USA needs to develop and get a little lucky with 2 or 3 naturally gifted players that can create offensively. Also, USA was hit hard by injuries. Altidore only playing 20 minutes this World Cup was a tough break. Progress was made and good signs from young players such as Yedlin and Green.

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Originally Posted by unclejohn

I BELIEVE THAT WE JUST LOST!

But it was a lot of fun. The best part for me was hanging out at the bar down the block. They had all the games on, and most of them on a theater sized big screen. It was fun cheering along with people I had never met. I can certainly see how the World Cup can be a national unifier. So I will watch the rest of the tournament, then it is back into my shell for another four years, or at least until qualifying starts again. But I did learn a lot and gained an appreciation for the game.

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As much fun and drama as the World Cup and international competitions provide, I think football in best enjoyed at the club level. Much more cohesiveness and fluid play, and just as much drama with the rivalries and the excitement when the have-nots beat the haves. If you have the time, it is well worth it to invest it watching the EPL/La Liga/top European leagues and Champions League action. The EPL is especially easy to follow with NBC Sports's phenomenal coverage of it, plus it has easily the best depth and competitiveness top to bottom of any European league.

So... how's everyone feeling this morning?

I can't stop thinking about Wondo's miss. This isn't healthy.

That was a heck of a play and, yes, opportunity wasted. The US missed some golden opportunities and I felt bad for Howard, as he was phenomenal. Tough one to lose, as they could have stolen it. They need to improve their ball handling and attacking, though, as they were struggling most of the game. Down 2-Nil, they were dominating and fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by MUfan12

So... how's everyone feeling this morning?

I can't stop thinking about Wondo's miss. This isn't healthy.

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Yes Wondo's miss hurts, but realistically if Tim Howard wasn't playing out of this world the US would have been down at least 3-0 at that point, Belgium had several misses themselves so if you play the what if game I'm not so certain it would work out well...

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Originally Posted by MKE_GoldenEagleFan

Yes Wondo's miss hurts, but realistically if Tim Howard wasn't playing out of this world the US would have been down at least 3-0 at that point, Belgium had several misses themselves so if you play the what if game I'm not so certain it would work out well...

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No doubt. But even with all of that, the ball falls to our alleged poacher's feet. 5 yards out, 30 seconds remaining. A tap in. ARRGH.

Almost looked like Wondo was not ready. Leaning back, skies it over the top. Needs to be on his toes, head down and drill it! Easier said than done.