Butler Thread

Barlow is a Senior
Woods is a Senior
Dunham is a Junior
Jones is a redshirt Soph

Goes to show how important it is to keep guys around for 4 years. We counter with Derrick, a transfer and Taylor who has battled injuries.

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Originally Posted by IrwinFletcher

Barlow is a Senior
Woods is a Senior
Dunham is a Junior
Jones is a redshirt Soph

Goes to show how important it is to keep guys around for 4 years. We counter with Derrick, a transfer and Taylor who has battled injuries.

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Jones is a RS junior...

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Originally Posted by Markedman

It's funny how different people can look at the same thing and see things so differently.....if I'm being honest I think we are the least talented team in the conference.....which is the major reason why we are in last place.

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I know we talk all the time about rankings not really meaning anything, but then why do we talk about it. Over half of these guys were ranked in the RSCI Top 100. So are they not good? Is it coaching? No development?

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Originally Posted by IrwinFletcher

Well then, we need to cease discussions on recruiting and the associated rankings. Are you saying Duane isn't talented? Luke isn't talented? JJJ isn't talented? Taylor? Carlino?

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Let me explain. Marquette has some talent, but it's talent in the freshman and sophomore classes and tonight they played a team that just beats the hell out of you and is junior and senior dominated. I mentioned when they first played that 4 or 5 guys from Butler played major minutes against MU in the 2012-2013 NCAA game when the MU players were still in high school and Marquette's talent isn't head and shoulders above Butler. As was said, men versus boys tonight.

I agree with MUCrisco and I've gone farther and said MU will challenge for the top 25 late next year. I expect Wojo will recruit two guys yet who will challenge for rotation minutes, if not starter spots.

Actually Jones is a redshirt junior but your point still stands. Experience sure helps......they just manhandled us in the 2nd half....just way more physical and really got good looks or free throws on almost every possession

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Originally Posted by Markedman

Actually Jones is a redshirt junior but your point still stands. Experience sure helps......they just manhandled us in the 2nd half....just way more physical and really got good looks or free throws on almost every possession

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I get the terminology mixed up often. And this is why it is imperative to have JJJ come back. He will get better, be more mature, be stronger etc.

Completely disagree with Windy about the T. Wojo is teaching these guys to go straight up without leaving their feet. The players do everything he asks, and the refs are consistently calling it a defensive foul when the guy jumps into them. Same thing fired Wojo up during the Nova game. At some point, he needs to stand up for his players or it's hard to tell the guys to play d like that.

If Anim or Cheatham or any guard that comes in can keep his man in front of him, he will earn minutes. With Duane, Luke, and Henry I think we will have some nice offensive weapons, we need to find a guy or two who can flat out d up. I know it's been discussed here before, but as much as I want to like JJ, he's just too big of a liability on the defensive and I don't see that ever changing and because of that I don't see him earning many minutes next year.

I keep saying somebody needs to work with JJ on his shot. He turns his right hip and shoulder towards the rim when he shoots. Needs to square up like Duane and Sandy. That should be his focus this summer along with adding 10+ pounds in muscle. Easy for me to say:D.

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Originally Posted by WindyCityGoldenEagle

If Anim or Cheatham or any guard that comes in can keep his man in front of him, he will earn minutes. With Duane, Luke, and Henry I think we will have some nice offensive weapons, we need to find a guy or two who can flat out d up. I know it's been discussed here before, but as much as I want to like JJ, he's just too big of a liability on the defensive and I don't see that ever changing and because of that I don't see him earning many minutes next year.

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So if JJJ transfers, what happens if Anim or Cheatham can't defend? Who is to say JJJ can't get better?

If we keep exchanging guys who would be juniors for guys who are fresh out of HS, we are starting behind most teams because of lack of experience.

JJJ has shown some flashes offensively and has the quickness and length that can make him an effective defensive player.

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Originally Posted by IrwinFletcher

Well then, we need to cease discussions on recruiting and the associated rankings. Are you saying Duane isn't talented? Luke isn't talented? JJJ isn't talented? Taylor? Carlino?

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Take off the sun glasses. The talent level is no where near what you think it is. JJJ is soft and has no shot. In fact, there is not a perimeter shooter in the group other than Matt, and he is leaving. Worst jump shooting team in years at MU.

I will give you this, Fisher and Duane are legit starters next season among the returning players. After that, who knows.

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Originally Posted by MUFAN2003

I keep saying somebody needs to work with JJ on his shot. He turns his right hip and shoulder towards the rim when he shoots. Needs to square up like Duane and Sandy. That should be his focus this summer along with adding 10+ pounds in muscle. Easy for me to say:D.

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That angle shot has been driving me nuts for two years. Makes Vander's freshman form look pretty.

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Originally Posted by IrwinFletcher

So if JJJ transfers, what happens if Anim or Cheatham can't defend? Who is to say JJJ can't get better?

If we keep exchanging guys who would be juniors for guys who are fresh out of HS, we are starting behind most teams because of lack of experience.

JJJ has shown some flashes offensively and has the quickness and length that can make him an effective defensive player.

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Where did I say I want JJ to transfer?

I agree with your philosophy that less roster turnover leads to higher probability of sustainable success. I think JJ can improve offensively and defensively (cant get much worse defensively). However, imo (just my opinion) he is way too far behind defensively imo to get to a necessary level to compete on that end of the floor in the Big East and will therefore always be too big of a liability.

...I saw our guys give in to fatigue and frustration--right after Dunham hit the successive threes. It has been a tough year for our guys and it really showed at that point. Cannot blame them. One of the things about this team, prior to this game, they have never given up--and they have never been booed at the BC, rightfully so. I am glad we will be turning the page soon.

Officiating has been at its all time worst this season across the board. NCAA or leagues need to make some changes.

We got 5 total rebounds from Luke, steve, and Juan in 50 minutes of game time. MU didn't have any player with more then 3 rebounds......not sure I've ever seen that happen in a game before at any level

Out of curiosity, for those who have seen Henry play. Would you consider him tough? Certainly bringing in an athletic 6'11" kid will help rebounding, but how would you describe his toughness?

We need a guy to do the dirty work. A bruiser, dare I say even a thug who'll just go get the damn ball. Those old Bob Huggins Cincy type players that would leave you with a black eye, missing lunch money, and get the putback at the same time. The kind of player everyone hates except the fans of his team.

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Originally Posted by 21rooster

Completely disagree with Windy about the T. Wojo is teaching these guys to go straight up without leaving their feet. The players do everything he asks, and the refs are consistently calling it a defensive foul when the guy jumps into them. Same thing fired Wojo up during the Nova game. At some point, he needs to stand up for his players or it's hard to tell the guys to play d like that.

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This. And this is the second time he's gotten a T, and the whistle shifted in MU's favor. Butler picked up 5 fouls in the first three or four minutes of the second half.

I think JJ is basically a freshman this year, and it has helped me view his inconsistencies in a more productive light. After thinking that he could not take to coaching, he has impressed me by reworking his shot and playing much more within the flow of the game in his recent outings. He was not good tonight, but young players often struggle against good teams in hostile environments. I actually think that a mid-career redshirt year at Marquette would do him a world of good, but realize that is more a thought that is likely not grounded in reality.

Call me the optimist, but I think we will be just fine next year. 4-5th in the league. Another year of experience for some, add in some athleticism, as well as some height and a burger boy, another year of the players under Wojo's system.....I like the direction the program is heading.

The one thing I really wish is that we had one more year out of Carlino, I think him on next years team could be a PERFECT fit.

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Originally Posted by IrwinFletcher

I know we talk all the time about rankings not really meaning anything, but then why do we talk about it. Over half of these guys were ranked in the RSCI Top 100. So are they not good? Is it coaching? No development?

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1. Lack of experience
2. Not well rounded talent (no shooters, no rebounders, no wing to attack the basket, bad PG)
3. Not enough physicality for the Big East

I think that the underclassmen have developed. Duane has the makings of a all conference player as a junior and senior. JJJ is much better than last year. Luke struggles, but he is basically in his first year right now. Sandy has grown as well.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

1. Lack of experience
2. Not well rounded talent (no shooters, no rebounders, no wing to attack the basket, bad PG)
3. Not enough physicality for the Big East

I think that the underclassmen have developed. Duane has the makings of a all conference player as a junior and senior. JJJ is much better than last year. Luke struggles, but he is basically in his first year right now. Sandy has grown as well.

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Agreed. #2 constitutes an unbalanced roster arising from recruiting misses and the coaching changeover.

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

1. Lack of experience
2. Not well rounded talent (no shooters, no rebounders, no wing to attack the basket, bad PG)
3. Not enough physicality for the Big East

I think that the underclassmen have developed. Duane has the makings of a all conference player as a junior and senior. JJJ is much better than last year. Luke struggles, but he is basically in his first year right now. Sandy has grown as well.

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Luke is really going to benefit when teams have to worry about more than just one of our bigs scoring....hopefully HE is the real deal and that will give Luke more opportunity to not be the sole target of the opposing teams defense down low. I'm not expecting much out of Heldt the first year, but even just having another big body down there they have to worry about will help Luke.