Game thread....

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Originally Posted by Marquette

If Villanova wins and John Dawson ends the game with 8 minutes played, how long will it take for bleed to say he was right all year and Buzz was wrong?

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Dawson should have played more.

A little more consistent guard play and the outcome is different today. I'm finally beginning to think at this point in the season DW and Thomas should not play at the same time. Some of Marquette's line-ups on the court were puzzling. The Oxtule combinaton is a waste of Gardner's talents. I'd like to see Otule and Taylor or Gardner and Taylor on the court at the same time. Mayo has earned more times. Dawson had some defensive lapses but I could live with them. Burton seemed lost. It was nice to see Luke Fischer on the bench today and Diamond Stone's family in the stands.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Ouch - MU falls to Nova in OT 94-85.

Crowd absolutely empties on last foul, how about supporting your team with applause for a great effort?

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Marquette gets way more support than they deserve this year speaking from a general perspective. People like us who follow the team 365 days of the year are in a small minority. For an 11-8 (now 11-9) team I think they had a great crowd today and most teams wouldn't come close to drawing what MU did today even with better success.

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Originally Posted by TedBaxter

Dawson should have played more.

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Dawson was Mr Overtime against Gtown. Why did Derrick play so much???? He had some real costly turnovers and Arcidinacono blew by him on D. We KILLED Nova in the paints points war but when you have two ineffective guards in Thomas and Wilson who can't get off shots on the court you are going to lose the perimeter game. John Dawson CAN create his own shot and should be playing MUCH more.

Still, it was a great game. Hats off to Nova. If we hade made out FTs we would have won.

Dawson got annihilated on D when he was in the game. No way did he deserve more minutes.

I only saw the 2nd half. From what I saw, DWill got annihilated on D when he was in the game as well.

Dawson is more fluid offensively than DWill. When DWill has the ball and penetrates, he is far too mechanical and slow reacting. Dawson moves the ball better. After Monday Night, I thought he earned more playtime.

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Originally Posted by ge1974

Dawson was Mr Overtime against Gtown. Why did Derrick play so much???? He had some real costly turnovers and Arcidinacono blew by him on D. We KILLED Nova in the paints points war but when you have two ineffective guards in Thomas and Wilson who can't get off shots on the court you are going to lose the perimeter game. John Dawson CAN create his own shot and should be playing MUCH more.

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The one thing I think that we can say about this season is that if D. Wilson is going to playing 30+ mins against decent teams, MU is not going to win. Not going to say that more Dawson will equal more wins, but you have to find out. MU does not have enough talent elsewhere to cover D. Wilson limitations on the offensive-end. It is amazing to watch how much effort MU needs to get open shots in the half-court.

Even though Nova won today, Jay Wright's gameplan was horrible. By not doubling down on Gardner, Nova allowed MU to hang in the game. Almost, cost them.

The Nova PG, Arcidiacano had 20 points, 11 assists and had ZERO turnovers in 39 minutes of play. Great D job by Derrick Wilson, huh?. At least Dawson can hit the outside shot and keep Nova honest on "D".

All the crap about Aaron Craft. National announcers thinks his $hit doesn't stink. Arcidiacano is his equal and may be better.

Dawson was torched in the first half.

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Originally Posted by ge1974

The Nova PG, Arcidiacano had 20 points, 11 assists and had ZERO turnovers in 39 minutes of play. Great D job by Derrick Wilson, huh?. At least Dawson can hit the outside shot and keep Nova honest on "D".

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Yep. Was at the game and Nova's guards went by Derrick and Jake at will Both had trouble getting past ball screens and were simply a step late. Jake Thomas contributed zip today in 29 minutes. At least play Dawson at the 2. Very puzzling and frustrating. The Thomas/Wilson combo simply just not give MU a chance to win against good teams.

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Originally Posted by ge1974

The Nova PG, Arcidiacano had 20 points, 11 assists and had ZERO turnovers in 39 minutes of play. Great D job by Derrick Wilson, huh?. At least Dawson get hit the outside shot and keep Nova honest on "D".

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Our offense today was outstanding. Do you really think Dawson would have been the stopper we needed on Aricijs whatever his name?
We lost bc we gave up too many second chance points and couldn't stop the pick and roll especially in OT- not surprising bc our best team defender on switches had fouled out.
Bottom line Nova is just better. Playing Dawson more wouldn't have solved our problems today in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

Dawson was torched in the first half.

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Yes thank you.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

Dawson is more fluid offensively than DWill. When DWill has the ball and penetrates, he is far too mechanical and slow reacting. Dawson moves the ball better. After Monday Night, I thought he earned more playtime.

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D. Wilson dribbles without a purpose. Its one of the worst things an offensive player can do. It creates floor-spacing issues and leads to the ball sticking to one-side of the floor.

The majority of his drives serve no purpose. Because he's non-shooter, he can't beat his man off the dribble. So, he rarely forces help. Instead, he has to pick-up his dribble or back it out.

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Originally Posted by RJax55

D. Wilson dribbles without a purpose. Its one of the worst things an offensive player can do. It creates floor-spacing issues and leads to the ball sticking to one-side of the floor.

The majority of his drives serve no purpose. Because he's non-shooter, he can't beat his man off the dribble. So, he rarely forces help. Instead, he has to pick-up his dribble or back it out.

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That's great. But our offense was outstanding today. All year we've been complaining about him because our offense sucks. Now we show signs on offense and he sucks on defense. Playing against really good teams and players can make lots of players look bad. Nova is just better this year across the board.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Our offense today was outstanding. Do you really think Dawson would have been the stopper we needed on Aricijs whatever his name?
We lost bc we gave up too many second chance points and couldn't stop the pick and roll especially in OT- not surprising bc our best team defender on switches had fouled out.
Bottom line Nova is just better. Playing Dawson more wouldn't have solved our problems today in my opinion.

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Dawson has shown me a better ability to feed the post. The announcers commented on how when DWill penetrated, his man would play the pass - that is all he has. He is too mechanical and slow with the ball. There is less movement when he is in the game. I do not believe DWill did much to enhance the offense today. I think Dawson could have fed the post better (where MU was killing Nova) and might have made a difference.

Would Dawson have solved our problems? Who knows. In extended play Monday he did. He did not get much of a run today to see if he could. DWill's d was bad all day as well. He did nothing to stop the Nova guards from dominating and killing MU. If he can't do it on d, then he does not add much value to the team, IMHO. And I have not been one to attack DWill in the past. I just wanted to see more of Dawson, specifically in the 2nd half.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

Dawson has shown me a better ability to feed the post. The announcers commented on how when DWill penetrated, his man would play the pass - that is all he has. I do not believe DWill did much to enhance the offense today.

Would Dawson have solved our problems? Who knows. In extended play Monday he did. He did not get much of a run today to see if he could. DWill's d was bad all day as well. He did nothing to stop the Nova guards from dominating and killing MU. If he can't do it on d, then he does not add much value to the team, IMHO. And I have not been one to attack DWill in the past. I just wanted to see more of Dawson, specifically in the 2nd half.

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It's team defense. The rotations are slow. Not all his fault just bc he's the guy matched up positionally. All our guys were a step slow on d. That's a credit to nova and it's also been a problem for us all year when we face teams with good perimeter players z

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Originally Posted by Gato78

Dawson was torched in the first half.

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Derrick Wilson was torched in both the first and second halfs.

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Originally Posted by ge1974

Derrick Wilson was torched in both the first and second halfs.

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Fine but the entire team was torched not just Derrick. And even when they missed we couldn't get the rebound. Derricks fault also, or can we spread the blame around to someone else instead of constantly ripping on this guy?

None of our perimeter guys could defend them off the dribble. Dawson against a zone is much different then against the man we saw today. Nova went at him time after time in the first half and scored eveytime. Unfortunately Derrick wasn't any more effective.

Amazing the game was as close as it was....I never for a second thought we would win.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

It's team defense. The rotations are slow. Not all his fault just bc he's the guy matched up positionally. All our guys were a step slow on d. That's a credit to nova and it's also been a problem for us all year when we face teams with good perimeter players z

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Team D was bad, I agree. DWill was beaten early and often at the point of attack. He greatly contributed to the poor defense. Nova had their way with he and Jake today.

Mayo was also horrible on d. In OT, he was awful on d.

Dawson may have played poorly on d, but as far as the guards go, he was not alone.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Fine but the entire team was torched not just Derrick. And even when they missed we couldn't get the rebound. Derricks fault also, or can we spread the blame around to someone else instead of constantly ripping on this guy?

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Can you stop with the constantly ripping of Dawson, as well? That is how this started. Some of us wanted more than 8 minutes of Dawson today. You tore into his defense, which led to the discussion of the defensive lapses of Wilson. Your defense of his porous defense was to blame the team d, but the problem with Dawson was solely his (as I read your comments).

Let's face it, DWill did not do much to stay in front of his man today. It was not a pretty defensive display, as his man continually broke down MU's defense.

EDIT: my point in this is that all the guards played poorly on d. Dawson was not alone, but his defensive lapses are the reason why he did not play in the 2nd half? He feeds the post much better than DWill and that is where MU had the advantage all game. I thought he deserved some run in the 2nd half. That is all. I don't mean to attack DWill, that was not my intent. But the complaints of Dawson were the same that could be of DWill today.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

Dawson was torched in the first half.

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When MU was letting players get by them in the second half, Derrick, Todd and Jake could have used a blow and that's why I said John should have played. He hit one of the two three pointers on the night, so he might have sprung one of those as well.

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Originally Posted by TedBaxter

When MU was letting players get by them in the second half, Derrick, Todd and Jake could have used a blow and that's why I said John should have played. He hit one of the two three pointers on the night, so he might have sprung one of those as well.

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Yep. And, when John is in the offense actually works well. The idea is to out score the opponent.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Yep. And, when John is in the offense actually works well. The idea is to out score the opponent.

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Gotta get stops though. The offense was plenty good enough today. Trying to imagine how it could have been better but I can't. Buzz said as much in the post game.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Gotta get stops though. The offense was plenty good enough today. Trying to imagine how it could have been better but I can't. Buzz said as much in the post game.

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The offense could have been better, but it's hard when you ply 3 on 5 with Derrick and Jake as a combo. Was at the game and it was clearly obvious. MUs offense was basically Davante, Todd and Jamil going one on one.

We scored 85 points. Shot 50%. Not sure what the efficiency was / I think Buzz said like 1.16. That's good. Defense and second chance points were bad. yet people continue to blame Derrick. It's getting ridiculous and has been ridiculous all. Year. Long.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

We scored 85 points. Shot 50%. Not sure what the efficiency was / I think Buzz said like 1.16. That's good. Defense and second chance points were bad. yet people continue to blame Derrick. It's getting ridiculous and has been ridiculous all. Year. Long.

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Point is that most of the offense was one on one. And Derrick and Jake were thrashed on the other end ( and they had 74 minutes ). Open thy eyes. Watching Derrick dribble aimlessly and jake being simply face guarded is hard to watch. I think Derrick is actually ok, but combined with Jake ( or vis-a-versa ) is quite simply an exercise in futility. Great young guys and great teammates, but a bad combo on the court. Their strengths and weaknesses do not mesh well together. Even the announcers have said that. 9 losses in 20 games is proof of that.

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Originally Posted by Nukem2

Point is that most of the offense was one on one. And Derrick and Jake were thrashed on the other end ( and they had 74 minutes ). Open thy eyes. Watching Derrick dribble aimlessly and jake being simply face guarded is hard to watch. I think Derrick is actually ok, but combined with Jake ( or vis-a-versa ) is quite simply an exercise in futility. Great young guys and great teammates, but a bad combo on the court. Their strengths and weaknesses do not mesh well together. Even the announcers have said that. 9 losses in 20 games is proof of that.

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I don't know why I get in these pointless debates. First you said the offense could have been better. Now it's the defense. Which is exactly what I said. My point was the offense was more than enough today.

MU peed down their legs. Period. End of story. Their season went up in smoke, in the first 3 minute stretch of OT. Game...set..season. The tourney won't be the same without MU. I for one, won't be watching it.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

I don't know why I get in these pointless debates. First you said the offense could have been better. Now it's the defense. Which is exactly what I said. My point was the offense was more than enough today.

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I simply added that the defense could be better, as Buzz said. But, my main point is that the offense could have been better. Offense was mostly one on one baskets. The scorer was very friendly to Derrick who was credited with 7 assists. Passing the ball to a guy who takes 3 dribbles to score is not an assist in my book.

Derrick is what he is. To give him credit for the offensive efficiency is a fools paradise. He is not an offensive weapon and the offense does not flow with him. MU was down 5-10 most of the game. It's not like MU was toe to toe with Nova today. It took a special comeback (and poor free throw shooting from Nova) to get it into OT. When MU needed a bucket to pull even or put pressure on Nova, Nova got a stop and went on a run. When MU needed a stop, they could not stop Archie.

All anyone who does not see eye to eye with you is saying is we wanted see if Dawson could have made a difference. You are the one who talked negatively on Dawson, yet it is you who gets upset when others talk about Wilson's flaws.

The advantage Marquette had against Nova in the paint. Dawson does a much better job of setting up Gardner and Chris than Wilson does. I would have liked to see more than 8 minutes for Dawson and that is all anyone else said until you disparaged Dawson for your undying support of Derrick.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

Derrick is what he is. To give him credit for the offensive efficiency is a fools paradise. He is not an offensive weapon and the offense does not flow with him. MU was down 5-10 most of the game. It's not like MU was toe to toe with Nova today. It took a special comeback (and poor free throw shooting from Nova) to get it into OT. When MU needed a bucket to pull even or put pressure on Nova, Nova got a stop and went on a run. When MU needed a stop, they could not stop Archie.

All anyone who does not see eye to eye with you is saying is we wanted see if Dawson could have made a difference. You are the one who talked negatively on Dawson, yet it is you who gets upset when others talk about Wilson's flaws.

The advantage Marquette had against Nova in the paint. Dawson does a much better job of setting up Gardner and Chris than Wilson does. I would have liked to see more than 8 minutes for Dawson and that is all anyone else said until you disparaged Dawson for your undying support of Derrick.

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Yep....need to give guys a chance.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

Derrick is what he is. To give him credit for the offensive efficiency is a fools paradise. He is not an offensive weapon and the offense does not flow with him. MU was down 5-10 most of the game. It's not like MU was toe to toe with Nova today. It took a special comeback (and poor free throw shooting from Nova) to get it into OT. When MU needed a bucket to pull even or put pressure on Nova, Nova got a stop and went on a run. When MU needed a stop, they could not stop Archie.

All anyone who does not see eye to eye with you is saying is we wanted see if Dawson could have made a difference. You are the one who talked negatively on Dawson, yet it is you who gets upset when others talk about Wilson's flaws.

The advantage Marquette had against Nova in the paint. Dawson does a much better job of setting up Gardner and Chris than Wilson does. I would have liked to see more than 8 minutes for Dawson and that is all anyone else said until you disparaged Dawson for your undying support of Derrick.

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So it's okay to repeatedly bash Derrick after every loss. But it is somehow untoward to point out that Dawson looked awful when in the game. Why?

WTH is going on.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

Gotta get stops though. The offense was plenty good enough today. Trying to imagine how it could have been better but I can't. Buzz said as much in the post game.

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Difference in the game was three point shooting in my opinion. That is why Derrick needs to be on the bench.

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Originally Posted by kneelb4zerg

So it's okay to repeatedly bash Derrick after every loss. But it is somehow untoward to point out that Dawson looked awful when in the game. Why?

WTH is going on.

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WOW, that is how you read that? Man, that is something else. No wonder you are difficult to communicate with. I am done with you. :mad:

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Originally Posted by MUMac

WOW, that is how you read that? Man, that is something else. No wonder you are difficult to communicate with. I am done with you. :mad:

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Vice versa. Isn't losing a blast?

I notice the post game discussions are always more fun after wins......

I actually thought today was about the best they have played all season. Just lost to a better team.

Every post after a loss: Buzz should have played X, Y, or Z instead of A, B, or C. Makes me long for the days when we ran 6 DEEP SON.