ACC and MSG

Really? Now *this* is going to negatively affect recruiting???

This isn't even going to be a story by the weekend. It's barely a story now. The front page of ESPN doesn't mention it...neither does Sports Illustrated. (The front page of ESPN college basketball does, along with the idea of the ACC looking Barclays BTW. I don't see the Atlantic 10 making a statement.)

This is just stupid talk. ACC boys letting Boeheim and Dixon blow off some steam. There are contracts in place and I am sure MSG has guaranteed money. Would it be better for MSG to have what is probably the same guaranteed money every year or once every 5 years? There is no way the old ACC teams will give Syracuse their home court advantage enjoyed in Greensboro, Charlotte or even Atlanta.

Even the Jersey Guy says it isn'tt going to happen:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=6869

I think ESPN is already sent a salvo at the upcoming Fox1 Sports Network with this "leak".

I guess my point is that if we want to be one of the big boy conferences this might have been a good time to show it. If ESPN and the ACC were talking about hosting their tourney at a venue the Big 10 had locked up for the next 13 years and acted as if it was going to be a done deal, do you think Delaney and the Big 10 would not issue a response?

I'd like for the Big East to tell the ACC to stick it, probably because I can't stand the ACC.

I agree Goo. Like I said, sitting back and saying nothing and waiting to see how things played out is exactly how the Big East was raided in the first place.

Actually, in the midst of this crap today would be the perfect time for the Big East to name a commissioner. Have whoever that is have a press conference where he/she stands up and states that the conference tourney is at MSG and that it won't change.

And yes Sultan, things like this can play against you in recruiting.

Playing in the Garden is a big deal for every high school player. Novak and Grimm were jacked when their 1st regular season college game was at MSG. It definitely affects recruiting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goose85

I guess my point is that if we want to be one of the big boy conferences this might have been a good time to show it. If ESPN and the ACC were talking about hosting their tourney at a venue the Big 10 had locked up for the next 13 years and acted as if it was going to be a done deal, do you think Delaney and the Big 10 would not issue a response?

---

First, the ACC isn't acting as if its a done deal.

Second, the B10 wouldn't make a response if Big East coaches were talking about moving their tournament to the United Center, and Andy Katz put that on a blurb on a non-descript story in May.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

I agree Goo. Like I said, sitting back and saying nothing and waiting to see how things played out is exactly how the Big East was raided in the first place.

---

What exactly could the BE have done to prevent it from being raided? It was the low man on the totem pole. Once those above them wanted to expand, losing members was inevitable.

And I will say the BE was already proactive with regards to MSG...they signed a deal through 2026.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheSultan

What exactly could the BE have done to prevent it from being raided? It was the low man on the totem pole. Once those above them wanted to expand, losing members was inevitable.

And I will say the BE was already proactive with regards to MSG...they signed a deal through 2026.

---

I will answer the second question first. There are performance stipulations. That leaves MSG with some power to make the change if they deem necessary. if the Big East falls short in 2013 or 2014, the 2026 date is absolutely meaningless. I don't think the Big East will allow that to happen, but 10 schools as opposed to 16, and Butler and Creighton as opposed to Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and Rutgers could be a HUGE shift in ticket sales.

Now to the first question - What could they have done? Think back....

Remember the headlines? Remember the Big 12 getting raided and falling apart with Texas A&M and Missouri leaving? Offers extended for the Texas and Oklahoma schools to join the PAC 12?

Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State were begging to come to the Big East!!! Yes, they wanted into the Big East. I even spoke to people in a Big 12 athletic dept about this.

So what happened?

The Big 12 presidents gathered together, fired their commissioner, banded together and became stronger then they ever had been.
The Big East did nothing.

Moves started happening again.
The Big 12 took WVU.
The ACC upped their exit fee to $50 million.
The Big East raised their exit fee by $5 million.

The ACC took Pitt and Syracuse.
The Big East started adding C-USA schools.

The ACC took Louisville and Notre Dame.
The Big East added Tulane.

The Big 10 took Rutgers.
The Big East did nothing.

Fact is, Fox paid $500 million for a 10 team basketball only league. Without Syracuse, without Louisville, without UConn, without Pitt, without Notre Dame. Had the schools fired the commissioner, banded together and gone about their business the way that the Big 12 did, what would Fox have paid for the 'Old Big East'?

The Big East sat back and did nothing.

All true BUT Pitt and Syracuse tainted the process because they were negotiating with the ACC throughout so the inaction may well have been motivated by Pitt and Syracuse making their own departures easier. Make no mistake, both schools were in leadership positions in the conference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MUMac

I realize they are missing the last two years. Still, they had not sold out their 7,500 seat facility. I don't know what solid numbers mean or how that translates into a BE Tournament at the MSG. Counting on VCU to travel to the tournament may not be the best.

---

VCU this past season and first season on the A-10, home average attendance was 7,693.

I coudn't tell or get numbers but it sounded and looked like VCU brought the most fans to the A-10 tourney.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State were begging to come to the Big East!!! Yes, they wanted into the Big East. I even spoke to people in a Big 12 athletic dept about this.

---

And why is that? Big East has an BCS bowl bid. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

I guess I never realized how pathetic the venues for the ACC have been that they want out so bad. For that matter, that the entire ACC was that bad. They had to improve football with Syracuse and Pitt?
Basketball had fallen to such depths of despair that they had to raid the BEast to make themselves decent. Wow, what an admission by the ACC. No wonder FSU and Miami so desperately wanted out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

I will answer the second question first. There are performance stipulations. That leaves MSG with some power to make the change if they deem necessary. if the Big East falls short in 2013 or 2014, the 2026 date is absolutely meaningless. I don't think the Big East will allow that to happen, but 10 schools as opposed to 16, and Butler and Creighton as opposed to Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and Rutgers could be a HUGE shift in ticket sales.

Now to the first question - What could they have done? Think back....

Remember the headlines? Remember the Big 12 getting raided and falling apart with Texas A&M and Missouri leaving? Offers extended for the Texas and Oklahoma schools to join the PAC 12?

Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State were begging to come to the Big East!!! Yes, they wanted into the Big East. I even spoke to people in a Big 12 athletic dept about this.

---

Only as a fall back had the nightmare scenario happened with the other schools going to the Pac 12. They weren't going to leave before then. If they would have left prior to then, they would have been leaving money behind...and that would have gotten a number of people fired.

When the B10 opened Pandora's Box and said they were going to expand, it set up a chain of events where those on the bottom were inevitably going to get eaten by those above them. It was all about money, and the BE had nothing to offer.

I didn't see anything about Miami wanting to move on. That was Clemson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MU/Panther

VCU this past season and first season on the A-10, home average attendance was 7,693.

I coudn't tell or get numbers but it sounded and looked like VCU brought the most fans to the A-10 tourney.

---

Still not enough to make me want to count on them for attendance in the BE Tournament at MSG.

We need the public of New York to sell out the Garden.

Panther, I agree. The concern is that Cuse brought so many fans and who will replace those fans? I was responding to, Goose, I believe, regarding VCU. I think for the BE to succeed at MSG, they need to market it to the NY public. St. Johns and Seton Hall being viable again would not hurt, though.

The MSG will sell out. The BE and Fox will guarantee that it does. Each school will have to commit to X amount of tickets and be billed for it. There may be homeless people in there with free tickets, but it will sell out. They won't give the MSG a reason to walk away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheSultan

Only as a fall back had the nightmare scenario happened with the other schools going to the Pac 12. They weren't going to leave before then. If they would have left prior to then, they would have been leaving money behind...and that would have gotten a number of people fired.

When the B10 opened Pandora's Box and said they were going to expand, it set up a chain of events where those on the bottom were inevitably going to get eaten by those above them. It was all about money, and the BE had nothing to offer.

---

Yes, it was always a fall back, but instead of being raided further, the Big 12 took massive actions and forged ahead. The Big East did nothing.

To Gato's point, I agree that Pitt & Cuse were already in dirty dealing with the ACC, but the conference was still viable even after those two left.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halo

The MSG will sell out. The BE and Fox will guarantee that it does. Each school will have to commit to X amount of tickets and be billed for it. There may be homeless people in there with free tickets, but it will sell out. They won't give the MSG a reason to walk away.

---

If I were MU I would allocate a disproportionate # towards their season ticket point system for those that buy tickets through MU for at least the '14 BE tourney. It would be nice if other BE schools had some incentives too.

And maybe have SI Swimsuit models populating the baseline like I just saw at the Knicks game tonight - that can't hurt.

I am struggling to understand exactly what you thought the Big East could have done. Here is the timeline:


September 2011: Syracuse and Pitt announce they are leaving for the ACC & the Pac-12 invites Oklahoma, OSU, Texas and Texas Tech. Texas A&M to the SEC looked very likely at that point. Later that month, the BE has discussions with Kansas, KSU and Missouri about joining.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...LFtDYQJpeeT4cN

"According to multiple sources, the most likely scenario -- should Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech leave the Big 12 for the Pac-12 -- would bring Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri to the Big East."


Late September 2011: Oklahoma, Texas, et al. announce they are remaining in Big 12. A&M move to SEC official.


October 2011: Missouri invited to SEC. TCU and WVU invited to Big 12.


Fall 2011 through early 2012: Big East invites a number of schools to join...


Once the four B12 schools said "no" to the P12, and the SEC decided to expand necessitating a response from the B12, there was absolutely nothing for the BE to do. They certainly could not have negotiated a better TV deal at that point because there was such instability in membership. They weren't going to get anyone to jump from another BCS conference because they didn't have the money. Perhaps they could have found a way to entice Syracuse, Pitt and WVU to stay, but with no $$$, how were they going to do that?

Yes, Syracuse and Pitt acted in bad faith. But once the initial TV offer was turned down, and Syracuse and Pitt announced they were leaving, the end was in sight. All that's left were the details.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaribouJim

If I were MU I would allocate a disproportionate # towards their season ticket point system for those that buy tickets through MU for at least the '14 BE tourney. It would be nice if other BE schools had some incentives too.

And maybe have SI Swimsuit models populating the baseline like I just saw at the Knicks game tonight - that can't hurt.

---

I think if Caribou Jim would put calls out to all his current and former leggy supermodel "friends", MSG would have no trouble selling out!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

I think if Caribou Jim would put calls out to all his current and former leggy supermodel "friends", MSG would have no trouble selling out!

---

I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MUAlphaBangura

I think if Caribou Jim would put calls out to all his current and former leggy supermodel "friends", MSG would have no trouble selling out!

---

But would someone give them a ride from Milwaukee, or would it be another missed opportunity? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pbiflyer

But would someone give them a ride from Milwaukee, or would it be another missed opportunity? ;)

---

Ouch!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pbiflyer

But would someone give them a ride from Milwaukee, or would it be another missed opportunity? ;)

---

Post of the week pbiflyer, that was classic!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pbiflyer

But would someone give them a ride from Milwaukee, or would it be another missed opportunity? ;)

---

With authority!!