Dave Cooks out as coach at Marquette High

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Originally Posted by eddiedswang

Everyone keeps referring to IWB's "$10,000 tuition to send a kid at MUHS".....where do I go to get that deal? Please direct me.....I want a refund on what I pay....

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Guys with the cash like EddieD are expected to pay big big bucks.

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Originally Posted by Mark Miller

Our family sends both of our children to Catholic schools in Madison. The money spent is worth every single penny.

There is a HUGE difference in the learning environment between competing schools in a lot of areas in Wisconsin, not to mention the faith component.

Do public schools have daily religion class, Mass once a week, annual retreats, service days in the community, service-hour requirements?

There is a difference. Not everybody thinks the money spent to send children to Catholic/private schools is worth it. Others, though, think it is.

I am among those who think it is. Thus I can "justify" paying 10K for high school and 3k for grade school.

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My thoughts exactly.

BTW, my kid doesn't have a limit on the number of games he plays. He can play on the Catholic grade school team and then play on a feeder program too. For example, the coach of Memorial's feeder program made it a point to say that they don't play games on Catholic school game day and that school practices/games take a priority over feeder team games/practices.

That said, all kids play way, way more than we did. There is a suburban 3rd grade feeder team that practiced together all summer. I think that is a little overboard. They are separating kids into levels at 3th and 4th grade. There is already an "in crowd." Its kind of sad. You know some of these kids get discouraged and quit playing. However, these kids have real potential to blossom and surpass many of the so-called "A" team kids.

Agree 88 - What really threw me for a loop is when they started cutting on select baseball teams in 1st grade. Where I live, there are now three "select" baseball programs, rendering the local rec program to be garbage. It is mind boggling. There are some communities that do it right, have their summer baseball leagues and then have weekend travel teams, but not here. They really ruin it for a lot of people, just so their kids can be on the team with the in-crowd. What makes it worse, is some of the kids are on teams because of the parent coaches when they really don't belong.

As you mentioned, some kids end up discouraged and quit playing when they are in early grade school! You don't know how they are going to grow, develop, adjust.... yet they just are driven out of the sport at a young age.

I could go on and on with specific stories, it is just senseless.

It's great that there are a lot of wonderful opportunities for kids to play sports and develop. However there is no longer room for late-bloomers and that's a shame.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

That is an awfully judgmental statement to make. People make decisions that they feel are best for their families. For you to sit in judgment, in this day and age, is stunning.

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Not trying to be judgemental. I suppose if you are very well off financially and can justify that kind of expense for high school, so be it. I understand there are other considerations. I personally don't think there is a ton of upside to paying 40 grand for HS, if you have a good public school option. I don't believe the education is that much more superior at MUHS than it is at most suburban HS's to justify that kind of expense. I have twin HS Jr's right now. They just took the ACT last month. One got a 33, the other a 34. They can go wherever they want to college. They didn't need to pay 40-50 grand in HS to get a good education. I understand circumstances are different for everyone though. I also understand that some people want a religious component to their children's education. There are obviously other factors at play for some people. If you can afford to spend that kind of money on HS, more power to you. I'd rather make the sacrifices that many of you made when I have three kids in college, rather than extending the tuition period over a ten or 12 year period seeing that I have three kids.

1. Don't need to pay to send a kid to Marquette University either. Whitewater can be just as good...except, there are a whole host of things that can be done at a good private institution that cannot be done at a public school. I am a very staunch supporter of Marquette High and I have seen a lot of good come out of that institution. Like MU, MUHS is small enough that it can make sure kids are on the right path. It cannot take less than bright kids and make them smart. It can keep kids focused and push them to excel. A kid who scores a 33 or 34 on the ACT will have many choices. But the value add for MUHS justifies the cost and it does not end on graduation day.

2. Parents are nuts. They spend so much time and money on making their kids into uber athletes only to be showed up by the kids who have natural talent and not the advantages. I have a friend who had his boys in soccer, they are adults now. They were on every select team and travelled all over the country. When they got to high school, the Mexican kids showed up who had essentially only played in their neighborhood. The Mexican kids were just better. My friend's kids did fine but that was a helluva lot of time, money and effort which only yielded making the team in high school. Talent always wins out over the suburban kids who had big advantages. The parents with kids on 3rd grade travel teams will be severely disappointed later in life.

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Originally Posted by Mark Miller

Our family sends both of our children to Catholic schools in Madison. The money spent is worth every single penny.

There is a HUGE difference in the learning environment between competing schools in a lot of areas in Wisconsin, not to mention the faith component.

Do public schools have daily religion class, Mass once a week, annual retreats, service days in the community, service-hour requirements?

There is a difference. Not everybody thinks the money spent to send children to Catholic/private schools is worth it. Others, though, think it is.

I am among those who think it is. Thus I can "justify" paying 10K for high school and 3k for grade school.

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I'm glad for you Mark! The only difference I see though is the religion component. While public school kids are not required to have the community service requirements that you mention. It has been my experience that there are plenty of opportunities for those in public school. For all practical purposes if you want to go to a decent college, you need to have the initiative to do the community service anyway. My comments are based primarily on the financial component. From a financial standpoint, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to pay property taxes, then pay tuition, for an education that in my opinion is not that much superior than what you will get at a good public school. Bottom line in education I believe comes down to the parents.

72......it's more than just religion. It's the constant competition each day with kids who actually have to do the work or they get bounced...it's having 80 kids try out for a baseball team because they all are pretty good.....it's being surrounded by those motivated individual kids who win all of those ancillary sport titles every year (tennis, golf, etc)....it's being held accountable for your work in and out of school. It's alot of stuff.

Most of these kids at MUHS won't score 34 or 35 on their ACT, but the average is 27 (which is highest in the state). Last I looked in 2012, 99% went on to college (with the other 1% being drafted to play pro hockey or taking a year off to travel).... I too question the $$$$$ part and do not enjoy the academic struggles, immense competition for playing time and politics, but my kid needs the discipline. It sucks to deal with every day, but I am betting on the future. Images of the vacation we didn't take or the new car I don't have flash in my head. Trust me.

You are lucky. You are not the rule. Your boys will be successful in going to a good college because of good parenting and the fact that they took elevated classes at their high school with the top 15%. Plus, they are great kids! The other 85% of the kids at their school are happy piddling along, playing x-box and hanging out with no homework each night. And it's even worse at the public schools in Milwaukee. You are the exception.

This thread has taken many directions....when it comes to high schools and paying or not paying, I guess "beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder" .....but I hope MUHS will get a basketball coach who can accept the type of student-athlete who attends MUHS and use this to his benefit. They will never be King or Vincent. The BIGS that made Germnatown and Tokoto-led Meno Falls will never come because they will not get out of their village's "feeder system." MUHS is not Dominican where "stars" are run in each year. Many of these kids do not want to pay the academic price. It's all about their sport. City kids from the disgusting MPS system struggle at MUHS and many leave after one year. So, it is tough keeping those athletes. In the past, they have gone to King and other schools.

MUHS needs to find a Dick Basham type of basketball coach. Those who attened MUHS will know why.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

Not trying to be judgemental. I suppose if you are very well off financially and can justify that kind of expense for high school, so be it. I understand there are other considerations. I personally don't think there is a ton of upside to paying 40 grand for HS, if you have a good public school option. I don't believe the education is that much more superior at MUHS than it is at most suburban HS's to justify that kind of expense. I have twin HS Jr's right now. They just took the ACT last month. One got a 33, the other a 34. They can go wherever they want to college. They didn't need to pay 40-50 grand in HS to get a good education. I understand circumstances are different for everyone though. I also understand that some people want a religious component to their children's education. There are obviously other factors at play for some people. If you can afford to spend that kind of money on HS, more power to you. I'd rather make the sacrifices that many of you made when I have three kids in college, rather than extending the tuition period over a ten or 12 year period seeing that I have three kids.

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Again with the judgmental crap. Give me a break. Who are you to decide who is "rich" enough to spend money on their children's education? Your pomposity and ignorance are blending into one big mess. You might just want to quit with your analysis.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

I'm glad for you Mark! The only difference I see though is the religion component. While public school kids are not required to have the community service requirements that you mention. It has been my experience that there are plenty of opportunities for those in public school. For all practical purposes if you want to go to a decent college, you need to have the initiative to do the community service anyway. My comments are based primarily on the financial component. From a financial standpoint, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to pay property taxes, then pay tuition, for an education that in my opinion is not that much superior than what you will get at a good public school. Bottom line in education I believe comes down to the parents.

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I see a difference in the social aspect as well as the after grad. My kids feel a part of a family - the Edgewood family. Just the same as I have felt as part of the Marquette family. I suppose it is wasting money on sending a child to MU with all these wonderful public university options, right?

Yes it was a financial sacrifice, but one that my wife and I (along with our children) were happy to make each day. You continue with the financial judgments based on your decisions. Man, you are something else!

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Originally Posted by MUMac

I see a difference in the social aspect as well as the after grad. My kids feel a part of a family - the Edgewood family. Just the same as I have felt as part of the Marquette family. I suppose it is wasting money on sending a child to MU with all these wonderful public university options, right?

Yes it was a financial sacrifice, but one that my wife and I (along with our children) were happy to make each day. You continue with the financial judgments based on your decisions. Man, you are something else!

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I'm not being judgemental at all Mac ! I don't see the value! I'm glad you do

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Originally Posted by eddiedswang

72......it's more than just religion. It's the constant competition each day with kids who actually have to do the work or they get bounced...it's having 80 kids try out for a baseball team because they all are pretty good.....it's being surrounded by those motivated individual kids who win all of those ancillary sport titles every year (tennis, golf, etc)....it's being held accountable for your work in and out of school. It's alot of stuff.

Most of these kids at MUHS won't score 34 or 35 on their ACT, but the average is 27 (which is highest in the state). Last I looked in 2012, 99% went on to college (with the other 1% being drafted to play pro hockey or taking a year off to travel).... I too question the $$$$$ part and do not enjoy the academic struggles, immense competition for playing time and politics, but my kid needs the discipline. It sucks to deal with every day, but I am betting on the future. Images of the vacation we didn't take or the new car I don't have flash in my head. Trust me.

You are lucky. You are not the rule. Your boys will be successful in going to a good college because of good parenting and the fact that they took elevated classes at their high school with the top 15%. Plus, they are great kids! The other 85% of the kids at their school are happy piddling along, playing x-box and hanging out with no homework each night. And it's even worse at the public schools in Milwaukee. You are the exception.

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The only comment I will make on this, and believe me I don't mean this as criticism, is that I think it does do kids some good to be in school with "the other 85%." Kids from different backgrounds of all types.

The only criticism I ever had about my experience at MU was that 80% of the people were pretty much the same type of person. Largely middle to upper middle class, white, Christian, etc. Not that it is bad because I pretty much fit that description, but coming from a pretty diverse public school, it was a bit of a culture shock in reverse. I also found that *some* of the people that came from the private schools didn't have a great deal of empathy for those who were different from them.

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Originally Posted by eddiedswang

72......it's more than just religion. It's the constant competition each day with kids who actually have to do the work or they get bounced...it's having 80 kids try out for a baseball team because they all are pretty good.....it's being surrounded by those motivated individual kids who win all of those ancillary sport titles every year (tennis, golf, etc)....it's being held accountable for your work in and out of school. It's alot of stuff.

Most of these kids at MUHS won't score 34 or 35 on their ACT, but the average is 27 (which is highest in the state). Last I looked in 2012, 99% went on to college (with the other 1% being drafted to play pro hockey or taking a year off to travel).... I too question the $$$$$ part and do not enjoy the academic struggles, immense competition for playing time and politics, but my kid needs the discipline. It sucks to deal with every day, but I am betting on the future. Images of the vacation we didn't take or the new car I don't have flash in my head. Trust me.

You are lucky. You are not the rule. Your boys will be successful in going to a good college because of good parenting and the fact that they took elevated classes at their high school with the top 15%. Plus, they are great kids! The other 85% of the kids at their school are happy piddling along, playing x-box and hanging out with no homework each night. And it's even worse at the public schools in Milwaukee. You are the exception.

This thread has taken many directions....when it comes to high schools and paying or not paying, I guess "beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder" .....but I hope MUHS will get a basketball coach who can accept the type of student-athlete who attends MUHS and use this to his benefit. They will never be King or Vincent. The BIGS that made Germnatown and Tokoto-led Meno Falls will never come because they will not get out of their village's "feeder system." MUHS is not Dominican where "stars" are run in each year. Many of these kids do not want to pay the academic price. It's all about their sport. City kids from the disgusting MPS system struggle at MUHS and many leave after one year. So, it is tough keeping those athletes. In the past, they have gone to King and other schools.

MUHS needs to find a Dick Basham type of basketball coach. Those who attened MUHS will know why.

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is this an insinuation that the kids that attend Dominican do so because the academics at Dominican are inferior to MUHS? strange comment if this is indeed what you meant.....furthermore, I think this thread has run its course.....

This is an incorrect stereotype about MUHS, to wit: a rich kids school, mostly white. MUHS, especially with Fr. Sazama at the helm, has always been dedicated to diversity, at least since my time there in the '70s. The minority population percentage at MUHS right now is greater than the percentages of the nation as a whole. MUHS also does everything it can to keep the less well off kids in the school with after hours programs, dinner and tutoring, a bit like Nativity Jesuit Middle School. MUHS is largely made up of kids in the middle class. Most students receive some form of financial aid and the school is honing in on a scholarship drive to help with those in the middle. One of MUHS's goals is to ensure cost is never a factor in attending the school. There are some rich kids there but the other guys make them fall in line, for the most part, since they are actually a minority. There is a great deal of racial, ethnic and income diversity at the school.

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Originally Posted by MUMac

Again with the judgmental crap. Give me a break. Who are you to decide who is "rich" enough to spend money on their children's education? Your pomposity and ignorance are blending into one big mess. You might just want to quit with your analysis.

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Mac, only one in this thread being judgemental is you! I would think with your education that you would understand the concept of cost-benefit. In my individual circumstances I don't see the upside of spending 40K plus per child to send them to a private school. I have acknowledged that there are other factors besides cost that play into an individual families decision on where to send their kids to school. I'm just expressing my sentiments, in my situation, that it makes more sense to spend the 40 grand on college. Things may be different for you! I personally don't think any of my children's outcomes would have changed dramatically one way or another if I sent them to MUHS, or anyone of the suburban school districts. I happen to be blessed though with three kids who have always been high academic performers.

Another note regarding the "rich kid school" thought process that many don't realize......There are many kids at schools like Marquette, Pius, DSHA, Dominican......that, like me, worked their way through school and paid their own tuition. And yes, I am talking about high school.

I had two paper routes and worked at McDonald's as well as for another company in high school to pay my tuition as my family couldn't afford it and the older kids in our family showed me the way. I know many that did the same. I do know some that do that at Pius High right now. I actually told that to someone about a year ago and he dragged his kids over and made me tell them.

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

Mac, only one in this thread being judgemental is you! I would think with your education that you would understand the concept of cost-benefit. In my individual circumstances I don't see the upside of spending 40K plus per child to send them to a private school. I have acknowledged that there are other factors besides cost that play into an individual families decision on where to send their kids to school. I'm just expressing my sentiments, in my situation, that it makes more sense to spend the 40 grand on college. Things may be different for you! I personally don't think any of my children's outcomes would have changed dramatically one way or another if I sent them to MUHS, or anyone of the suburban school districts. I happen to be blessed though with three kids who have always been high academic performers.

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Speaking of education, if you use yours, you will understand this comment to be judgmental. "I don't know how in this day and age anyone can justify 10K for high school." It came from you, not me. I stick by what I stated and for the record, I did not read any of the other pablum in your above post beyond the first sentence. Frankly, you are not worth the time or effort.

Look up judgemental Mac! I would be passing judgement if I said you were stupid for spending the money!

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Originally Posted by mufansince72

I would be passing judgement if I said you were stupid for spending the money!

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Well, with this statement you were pretty much saying that.....

"I would think with your education that you would understand the concept of cost-benefit."

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Originally Posted by Jim Ganzer, "IWB"

Well, with this statement you were pretty much saying that.....

"I would think with your education that you would understand the concept of cost-benefit."

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Well, since the guy is calling me pompous and ignorant, I think he can take the little "xxxxslap" I threw his way!

This dead horse has almost been beaten to eternal death. I will agree with all the pros and cons listed here, and how important personal choice is. I went to Catholic grade school, public high school and then Marquette. I loved public high school because of the variety of learning, clubs, people. My parents made the choice mine.

When my kids came of high school age, the choice was theirs as well. However, my kids went to public grade and junior high and then Catholic and private colleges. My youngest had a learning disability, a problem with decoding. It took a few years to work through the public paperwork and testing and their conclusion was "there are other kids worse" or "she is just young for her grade" as funds are limited for tutors. So, we took her to Huntington Learning five days a week and all summer where they diagnosed her issue in 30 minutes and put together a learning plan to overcome it. We are talking about a kid who scored in the top 1% in state tests that were multiple choice (where she taught herself to cheat)...could whip through math fact cards, knew sentence structure singularly...but if you gave her a math word problem or asked her to write a simple paragraph simply couldn't, she couldn't read a beginning reader book but only could pick out words....it would be blank for her. We were pleased with c's.

I know there are other kids worse, and public funds are limited, so we chose the private tutor route with Huntington...which cost a lot more than a private grade school. If she was in a private grade school, the pressure would have been too much and she would not have received the attention. She could float at her own pace with kids her level in public school as she worked through her issues after school for many years.

Come high school choice: her older sister was all AP everything, great athlete, wanted the Catholic high school, college prep, very competitive experience. The younger daughter picks the school her sister went to. With caution, we gave her her choice, although the first semester was an emotional struggle despite being placed in lower levels. But her grades came and she was at scores of like 120% at that level. We went to the principal and president, explained her issues, and asked to push her up levels mid-semester to challenge her as she had caught up with seven years of hard work. They agreed, and she continued to flourish to the point where she outscored her AP Honor student sister on the ACT including a 35 on reading, was a multiple year academic All American in her sport, won many other scholarship awards and continues to do so. No way does she get moved up in a public school. Why? Because I was paying and had that voice. The public school principal most likely would never have even met with us.

Very long story short: there is no one right answer for parents...and those right answers may be different as they advance tomorrow.

Funny ending at her graduation as she had all her academic awards in front of her...I told her that I most most proud that she worked so hard to overcome her learning disability. She said with teenager disdain, "Dad, what are you talking about, I never had a learning disability".

Everybody has there own reasons for sending their children to private or public schools and their own history to tell. I went to Catholic schools in Burlington and Marinette and 2 years of public school in Cedarburg before heading to St. Norberts for college. I can unequivocally say the best education I received in that time were the 2 years I attended high school in Cedarburg. My experience though is obviously different than many on this board.

Living outside of DC now - I'm just grateful I live in an area where some of the nation's best public schools are located. I don't feel the need to send my kids to Catholic school to receive a great education and I can save that money each year to put toward their college education. I'm also not a religious person so that aspect doesn't play a role for my family as it does for many on this board.

Bottom line -- each person should do what they feel is best for their family and not be critical of the choices of others.

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Originally Posted by Gato78

1. Don't need to pay to send a kid to Marquette University either. Whitewater can be just as good...except, there are a whole host of things that can be done at a good private institution that cannot be done at a public school. I am a very staunch supporter of Marquette High and I have seen a lot of good come out of that institution. Like MU, MUHS is small enough that it can make sure kids are on the right path. It cannot take less than bright kids and make them smart. It can keep kids focused and push them to excel. A kid who scores a 33 or 34 on the ACT will have many choices. But the value add for MUHS justifies the cost and it does not end on graduation day.

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I have a neighbor who is an MUHS grad and wanted his son to go to MUHS, but the son was not admitted because of grades / test score. The neighbor said he knew his son would also be afforded the opportunity to have a great education at the local HS ( Homestead in Mequon ), but that he was far more concerned about the intangibles and discipline that MUHS offers and that he experienced at MUHS.

Digging this topic back up...so why did MUHS get rid of their new coach after only one year?

He was a train wreck plain and simple.

I wouldn't think coaching boys would be *that* much different. Culture clash?

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Originally Posted by TheSultan

I wouldn't think coaching boys would be *that* much different. Culture clash?

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It was not really a matter of coaching boys v. girls. Issues were with how he dealt with people, both players and non players.
Good move for MUHS to move on.

OK thanks Goose and IWB.

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Originally Posted by eddiedswang

MUHS faces numerous obstacles as it tries to compete with the Dominicans, WISCO's and larger public high schools so it will be a tough road to get back to the top.These obstacles include:

1. Rigorous academics for all (don't let these other schools kid you about who is doing college prep work and who isn't -- they have college prep tracks for their kids, but MUHS makes all of their kids take that track)

2. "Feeder" programs from Bay, Falls, Germantown, etc. don't let kids out of them (many have been playing with the same kids since 3rd grade)

3. Diminishing enrollment at Catholic grade schools (which provide MUHS with the bulk of their enrollment); most kids are going to their local public schools and don't want to leave their friends; there aren't that many great athletes at these schools (there are some - but not as many as in the public schools)

4. A cost of around $13,000 a year when you pay for everything (including books and meals)

So, it takes a special type of student-athlete to want to do this -- especially when their friends are hanging out every night and having fun while the MUHS kids are getting their butts handed to them in school.

What MUHS has returning for HOOPS next year is a decent group of kids...with a nice JV team....and a few good freshmen......they will compete, but it will be tough to be elite again.

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Not exactly. MUHS has a waiting list to get in. Financial issues haven't had that much of an effect on enrollment (but for one down year 3 years ago). The school offers full scholarships to needy kids and if they succeed, they move the child over to choice in year two. (This allows them to be more selective on admitting kids, since they don't have to follow the choice rules. Once a child attends a school and qualifies for choice, the child (and school) avoids the lottery process.) Choice has become a huge game changer for the high schools. Income limits go up to $96,000 next year. Couple that with the increase payment per student and you are going to see a surge in the size of Catholic high schools. After dropping below 400 a couple of years ago, a school like Thomas More is projecting enrollment to be 600 in the next couple of years. This new breed of choice kids are the types of kids from the types of families (middle class) that used to go to Catholic schools but were priced out of the market over the couple of decades. This will literally save Pius, which was in deep do-do a couple of years ago.

As for MUHS, they don't have any problem attracting kids, especially great athletes and students, with or without choice. They actually have to recruit a little bit now, but everyone has to to that. Their athletic problems are the result of some coaching turnover and some internal coaching issues with respect to some of the teams. Plus, some classes are simply not as talented as others. They will be successful again.