Tubby Gone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awilhelmscream

Are they putting them up in East Tower or Carpenter?

---

They are in Carpenter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halo

How is this helping anything Phantom? You seem to know all of the facts? I don't and neither do you. To continue your name calling rants are pretty childish in my opinion.

---

Let's not jump off the ledge. If Buzz were to leave for TX, KY, UCLA or say FL...what can we say? Now, if it were a MN, our eyebrows would be arching. In the meantime, let's stay cool.

If I ever get uber rich - HA - the first thing I am doing is building a state-of-the-art living center for the basketball players. I don't care if it's not even with the other students or student-athletes. Other students or student-athletes don't garner a $370k profit/person annually for the university.

Far too often the title of "student-athlete" is used conveniently by universities and officials when it's to the betterment of them. Just watch the Fab Five documentary and listen to the anger those five had for the actions carried out by corporations and Michigan University to monetize the success of their 18 year old "student athletes."

The fact they don't get even modestly paid is a joke in and of itself and I commend Kentucky for the facilities they've provided their players. Yes, it is a recruiting tactic, but you won't find more deserving students on campus than the ones suiting up to play at Rupp Arena

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bleedbluegold03

If I ever get uber rich - HA - the first thing I am doing is building a state-of-the-art living center for the basketball players. I don't care if it's not even with the other students or student-athletes. Other students or student-athletes don't garner a $370k profit/person annually for the university.

Far too often the title of "student-athlete" is used conveniently by universities and officials when it's to the betterment of them. Just watch the Fab Five documentary and listen to the anger those five had for the actions carried out by corporations and Michigan University to monetize the success of their 18 year old "student athletes."

The fact they don't get even modestly paid is a joke in and of itself and I commend Kentucky for the facilities they've provided their players. Yes, it is a recruiting tactic, but you won't find more deserving students on campus than the ones suiting up to play at Rupp Arena

---

So what about the engineering student studying away in the lab, or the business school student working full-time, or even part-time, to pay their way through school. And one of these goes on to become uber-wealthy and donates $100m back to the university. Are they driving more profit than the current MU bball player? What should they get in compensation for their return to the university? And what about in down years when the team doesn't generate as much money...do they deserve a cut in their benefits then?

Basketball athletes receive more than any other student already. They get special tutors. They get access to facilities that no other student gets. They get free room and board. It is not like they get nothing for their efforts. I appreciate everything they do to be ambassadors for the university. But let's not go overboard here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nukem2

Let's not jump off the ledge. If Buzz were to leave for TX, KY, UCLA or say FL...what can we say? Now, if it were a MN, our eyebrows would be arching. In the meantime, let's stay cool.

---

Nukem-not sure if this directed at me? Because I agree with what you are saying and my opinion was directed at Phantom who is blaming the MU admin for everything.

When people mention they should get paid, my response is that perhaps they should not get tuition, room and board. Then maybe they aren't eligible for Pell grants. I think the argument is ridiculous. The game needs to be a game for amateurs. If anything, perhaps we should be limiting the presidents who are maximizing the income created off these kids. The spate of conference change does not cry out for compensating student athletes. Rather, it calls out for university presidents to quit chasing dollars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gato78

When people mention they should get paid, my response is that perhaps they should not get tuition, room and board. Then maybe they aren't eligible for Pell grants. I think the argument is ridiculous. The game needs to be a game for amateurs. If anything, perhaps she should be limiting the presidents who are maximizing the income created off these kids. The spate of conference change does not cry out for compensating student athletes. Rather, it calls out for university presidents to quit chasing dollars.

---

Agree completely. The student athletes are getting paid a tuition, room, board and per diem (well, except for after a game!).

The engineering or business student (way to omit the entire College of Arts & Sciences, those losers apparently don't go on to do anything), even if they become "uber-wealthy," won't have a fraction of the impact on the school's national perception and profile that a perennially successful nationally regarded basketball program does. Just look at Dwyane Wade, the Final Four run, joining the Big East and continuing that success - the impact that has made on recruiting (regular students - not basketball students) and the dramatic increase in admission standards is remarkable. That is hard to quantify, but don't pretend a one-time 100m GIFT by an alumnus (by the way, the largest gift in MU history is $51 million) drives "more profit" on an annual basis to MU. The success of the basketball program is critical to the success of the university across the board. It raises MU's profile, helps attract better business and engineering students, and generates tremendous revenue for every other athletic program at MU (none of which are profitable) and the school. It also increases Alumni giving as the Alumni feel proud of their University's accomplishments. How were things going during the Mike Deane era? Making sure they have the best living facilities - considering they spend far more time on campus than the ordinary student (Thanksgiving / Christmas Break / Spring Break / the entire summer) is not going "overboard."

Agree completely 3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halo

Nukem-not sure if this directed at me? Because I agree with what you are saying and my opinion was directed at Phantom who is blaming the MU admin for everything.

---

No problem. My comment was just a general one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halo

Nukem-not sure if this directed at me? Because I agree with what you are saying and my opinion was directed at Phantom who is blaming the MU admin for everything.

---

Actually he's blaming LW for everything. Blaming the administration...along with the BoT...for some of the changes is actually more of an accurate statement.

3 - Sorry for excluding Arts & Sciences. That was not intentional and not a slight against anyone from that college. And yes, I was exaggerating with the quote of a $100m gift to the school. Maybe I should have said $10m, or even $2m. Either of those is still more than what a 4-yr player generates for MU at $370k/yr, which bleed quoted.

I agree with you 100% that a successful athletics program generates an enormous amount of goodwill for the school. Some staff from the alumni relations department came to visit me in Chicago back in 2005 or so and I explained to them the practical example of that. Illinois went to the Final Four that year, but by that fall, they had falling enrollment, the school was in shambles and they were searching for a new president. And I directly compared it to the positive impact that 2003 had for MU. The staff that visited me were surprised by the comparison and didn't realize it. So I get it completely and agree with you.

I also agree with you that these players make a large sacrifice to be at Marquette. But the message that bleed said is that because bball players (and I should note that bleed forgot to limit it to only men's players and not even women's players) are the only ones that generate a return for the university and therefore are the only ones who deserve state-of-the-art living quarters. And what really smacks of elitism is the exact quote I highlighted which said, they are the most deserving. Many student-athletes in other sports spend a lot of time on campus during breaks and summer. I knew quite a few of them when I was in school. Do they deserve any less because their sports don't generate a profit? Many students have to work their way through 4 years of MU, some working 40 hrs/wk on top of school. Do they deserve less? It is the success of each and every component of a university that makes it truly great, not just one.

I support MU basketball a lot and am as big of a fan as many. And I do think they deserve some extra benefits for making the sacrifices they do. But I will never put them on a pedestal and say they are the most worthy or only ones worthy of something when we all know that many students and athletes make extreme sacrifices to make it through 4 years at MU. And they are already getting way more than most students got while at MU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MUMac

Agree completely. The student athletes are getting paid a tuition, room, board and per diem (well, except for after a game!).

---

I agree completely as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheSultan

Actually he's blaming LW for everything. Blaming the administration...along with the BoT...for some of the changes is actually more of an accurate statement.

---

Not so fast Sultan. All I was saying was that if Buzz took a lateral move like a MN job, we do have to wonderwhats going on. Could be the LW/BoT thing or it could be the new conference or it could just be time for a change.

I actually think athletes should receive a little something more than tuition, room, board and books for the effort. I think they should be given a little walking around money. It would have to be an NCAA mandated amount so all players at all schools received the same. It doesn't matter what sport you are in, the sport runs your life. They tell you when you get up, when you practice, when you eat, when you study, etc. I don't think it would be unreasonable for athletes to get $500 bucks or so a month to cover some expenses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nukem2

Not so fast Sultan. All I was saying was that if Buzz took a lateral move like a MN job, we do have to wonderwhats going on. Could be the LW/BoT thing or it could be the new conference or it could just be time for a change.

---

OK...I get where you are coming from.

Buzz's name is mentioned for USC, UCLA, Minn, etc with some articles indicating that there are problems with Buzz and Larry. That has been no secret around here, and obviously not a secret nationally either.

If Buzz leaves for a school in LA (doesn't seem a good fit for him) or for a place like Min who has terrible facilities, then it is all on Larry I think.


Some problems with Buzz leaving (other than the obvious - we would lose a great coach and perfect fit for MU).

- What are the chances MU goes 3 for 3 in hiring coaches?

- Many think next year could be a special season at MU. What if some recruits don't come / players leave?

- How attractive is the MU job knowing the previous coach made the NCAA every year, 3 straight sweet 16 appearances, and wildly liked by the fan base was basically forced out due to a relationship with the administration? Tough act to follow.

- Does not look good for the new conference when one of your flagship schools looses their coach, especially if the move is considered latteral.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goose85

Buzz's name is mentioned for USC, UCLA, Minn, etc with some articles indicating that there are problems with Buzz and Larry. That has been no secret around here, and obviously not a secret nationally either.

If Buzz leaves for a school in LA (doesn't seem a good fit for him) or for a place like Min who has terrible facilities, then it is all on Larry I think.

---

You mean in the eyes of the general public...at least those who wish to assign blame? Probably. But I don't think he would deserve all of the blame.

"the message that bleed said is that because bball players (and I should note that bleed forgot to limit it to only men's players and not even women's players) are the only ones that generate a return for the university and therefore are the only ones who deserve state-of-the-art living quarters."

- the men's basketball team is the only team that generates a profit for the university. The revenue generated from one out-of-conference, weeknight game surpasses that of the rest of all sports for a full year

"And what really smacks of elitism is the exact quote I highlighted which said, they are the most deserving. Many student-athletes in other sports spend a lot of time on campus during breaks and summer. I knew quite a few of them when I was in school. "Do they deserve any less because their sports don't generate a profit?"

- Yes

"Many students have to work their way through 4 years of MU, some working 40 hrs/wk on top of school. Do they deserve less?"

- Yes

How can I have an elitist attitude if I am counting myself among those that should receive less? I graduated Marquette in '12 with a double major in the College of Business and worked 25+ hrs for the entirety of my college career. I will, with a 99% probability, not give the same return as any player and should not get the same benefits.

Again, the idea that colleges should put everything/one on equal ground is unrealistic and the real unfair situation. This in no way reflects the real world society that we currently reside in. Should an upper-level management person make the same as an entry level position?

They make $370k profit PER PLAYER each year. That's more than double what a player would get in tuition, board and food for a full four years. In what world is that fair?

There are a lot of good points in this thread from both sides. For me, it is not about the compensation, it is not about the equality between regular students and student athletes. It is about competition in the recruiting world - for both sides.

MU is much much harder to get into now that in was years ago. Mainly because there are more people applying to get in, which drives the overall incoming GPA up.

But now let's look at the recruitment of students.

In order to get a higher quality of student, MU is constantly upgrading the facilities, the class offerings, the student experience. There is a new law school, new library, new dental school, new engineering building, new living facilities/dorms/condos/apartments. The campus has been completely overhauled over the last 10 years. Why? Because it needed a new facelift? No, because Marquette needed to upgrade to stay competitive in the battle for the brightest and most talented students. MU needs to stay one step ahead of the competition to battle for these students.

Now you have an athletic department that is heavily funded by the men's basketball program. How do you recruit women's hoops players, soccer players, runners, golfers and lacrosse players? By providing them with the best coaches, facilities and opportunities that you can provide them with. Marquette needs to stay one step ahead of the competition to battle for these recruits.

Now let's look at the men's basketball program. The same applies across the board. In order to be competitive, they need the best recruits possible. What brings in these recruits? The best coaches, facilities, programs and success. You have to compete with the competition for these players every day. If it means giving them better living facilities than your conference opponents then that is what you need to do. Marquette needs to stay one step ahead of their competition.

Again - please stop comparing MU basketball players to other MU athletes and other MU students.

To attract the best students, MU has to offer more than their competition.
To attract the best student athletes, MU has to offer more than their competition.
To attract the best men's basketball players MU has to offer more than their competition.

Please stop comparing what MU B-ball players get as opposed to the rest of the students and compare what MU B-ball players get as opposed to their direct competition!!

Very good points Jim.

The Old Gym has a few basketball hoops and a court. Since facilities and accomodations don't matter, why not just move the men's basketball facilities back to the Old Gym and turn the AL into another Rec Plex?

There's some extra space in the basement of Johnston Hall, maybe we could move the Athletic Director's office over there. It would give him an opportunity to mingle with the regular faculty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Litehouse

There's some extra space in the basement of Johnston Hall, maybe we could move the Athletic Director's office over there. It would give him an opportunity to mingle with the regular faculty.

---

Post of the Year!!!!!!

Lots of rumors tonight on Gopherhole that Shaka's extension with VCU is on hold, and that he may just take the Minn job if they can get practice facility commitment!

FWIW...

Today, 08:07 PM #381 richmondinsider
Junior Member Join Date:Mar 2013
Posts:27
10PM Update

Shaka spent the day talking to both friends and family about what to do. I know for a fact Billy D has told him to go to UCLA. Many people are telling him to do what he thinks is best for his career. He really wants to take one of these jobs but Maya his wife is dead set on the city life in Richmond. She simply loves it.

Shaka's agent at one point thought a deal would get done today with VCU but it did NOT. Shaka is expected to visit with Norwood Teague tomorrow. I'm not sure where the meeting is whether Norwood is comming to Richmond or Shaka is going to MN.

People within VCU are starting to get very nervous as they expected this to be an easy process. The word is they thought they could get him quickly to agree to stay. They are having problems meeting many of his demands very few are about money. The thought is this is the last upgrade of a contract that is really possible for Smart at VCU. If he agrees to a deal here the thought is this is the BEST VCU can give him.

The rumor I'm hearing is Norwood has been calling big money donors all day/night to work out a deal for an out of the world practice facility. Perhaps some people on Gopher Hole have been contacted?

His wife is "dead set" on the city life in Richmond? I can't wait to see how this turns out, but I have a pretty good guess.