Drew Diener
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Is Diener actually a candidate? I haven't heard from anyone who has said that. I know there are certain things you can get away with in NAIA that you can't in NCAA, so I would have been happier with a lower-division NCAA title. But if the guy can coach, the guy can coach - and Drew Diener took a team of players and won a national championship. That's not easy to do on any level in any sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by gman2
The only guy on Mark Miller's list with head coaching experience is Chris Lowery, who got fired from Southern Illinois in 2012 for basically being Rob Jeter. The rest of them? They all look like Rob Jeter-type coaches.
Which isn't a bad thing, at least to me. But wasn't everyone demanding a lower-division coach with experience, and trying to stay away from the high-major recruiter assistant?
I'll take Donte Jackson or Pat Miller over all those assistants. Drew Dienrr as well.
One thing on Donte Jackson that people may not know: he was a player at Milwaukee in the 1997-98 season, a freshman out of Milwaukee Hamilton. Transferred and played the rest of his career at Central State. Here's his stats for Milwaukee at Basketball-Reference:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...jackson-1.html
Win percentage wise they were similar, but Lowery was handed the keys to a truly elite mid-major(ish) team and ran it off a cliff. Given that this isn't the pros and there's no draft, I'll take Jeter's results any dayQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Lemke
Gotta agree with parker. After three very good years with Weber's and Painter's recruits, Lowery's record was 18-15, 13-18, 13-19 and 8-23.
To call the coaching candidates being tossed around underwhelming would be a massive understatement. When does she start adding high school coaches to the list? But here's the most important question: does anyone believe that any of these guys -- or 25 guys just like them -- wouldn't have been available next year after Rob's contract termed? It's laughable! Anyone who claims the AD made the change now because she was afraid next year would be another "disappointing" year isn't seeing it. What scared the hell out of her was that it would be a success. Why do you think "sabotage" -- not my word but the word of someone who was on the inside -- was going on? And this is a program decent people are being asked to support? Forget it!
His listed salary is smaller than Otzelberger'sQuote:
Originally Posted by MU/Panther
...but bigger than Scott Nagy's (the guy I'd consider a home run hire)
The candidates who would be at the top of the list under normal circumstances are not interested. I would think Nagy would be one of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by parkerj
Please enlighten me on why a Scott Nagy would make what would be in the very best circumstances a lateral move? The Summit is currently a better conference..
I thought of him when Otzelberger (275,000 base) was thought to be a frontrunner for the job. With that in mind, money. If we could afford to double his base salary, he'd have to at least think of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of Bruce
This is one of the hidden consequences of this action. If this had occurred in an orderly way after next year, there would be many more options. I don't think a lot of fans understand that the college coaching fraternity is close and that word gets around in a hurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Lemke
And I'm sure anyone offered the job is going to give Jeter a call.
I don't believe he would deliberately try to sabotage the hire, because all he would have to do is be honest.
This is a raging 5 alarm dumpster fire. A "regular" dumpster fire is what we saw at MU when Buzz was sent packing. That happens from time to time and is generally recoverable. The program remains attractive and the potential next hires are usually pretty strong.
This is so far beyond that it is laughable.
And a much as I would love to think the things said here, or on the Eunuch Board for that matter, have so much weight it can and does impact the potential candidates, it just doesn't. Sure they look at the boards, but like any outsider, the do so out of curiosity, I'm sure. I have a very hard time believing a YouTube video (< 300 views) and some posts here or anywhere amounts to much more than a fart in the wind on the whole.
Which makes the actions of the "head Eunuch" so laughable.
No....The 5 alarm dumpster fire is because you have a sitting state Senator, and former Gubernatorial candidate, demanding that the AD be fired immediately, players who are very publicly calling that same AD a liar and accusing her of outright sabotage of the program, and at least 1 major donor (so far) saying that he is done with the program until she is gone. Pile that all on top of the decision to terminate a coach after a 20 win season (while being undermined) that included a win over UW IN MADISON, which is not just a rare event in the history of UWM, but a rare feat in college basketball period.
What otherwise rational and reasonable person would look at this situation and say "Sign me up!"? Especially with other less troubling opportunities now, and certainly even more in the next year or two.
It should be no surprise that we are stooping pretty low (as coaching prospects go) right now, and there is no guarantee that these candidates are even really interested, but are instead using Braun to get a raise where they are, or to get there name out there for other jobs.
In fact, I bet that thought still has not occurred to Amanda and her cadre of suck ups...but it is probably happening. Hell, Crean turned that into a cottage industry at MU for years...don't think others didn't learn from him on that.
There remains only one thing that can possibly put this fire out, and that is the termination of Braun, and the naming of her replacement, before a coach is hired. Failing to do that means we are stuck with whoever she can get, and if she is later terminated, have to deal with another lame duck coaching staff for the next AD, and even more turmoil.
When I called for a purging fire, I meant that the program had to hit the reset button and start again FROM THE TOP DOWN. New AD, then a new Coach, and then immediate actions to repair relationships with donors, sponsors and alumni. I believe if this happens, we may see an era of Milwaukee Panther basketball success we have thus far only dreamed of.
Sorry for the length, guys....but this has been rolling around in my head for the last few days and I finally had a moment to sit down ad get it in writing.
Can't say for sure, but I highly doubt that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhart05
A normal situation, maybe not. This has been far from normal thou. I would if I were called about the job. I'd want to know what I was getting myself into.Quote:
Originally Posted by MU/Panther
I never would call the person who got fired about a job I'm interviewing for.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhart05
I honestly do not think it is necessary to call Jeter to get a sense of what went on under Braun. The players have made it pretty clear, and that is more than enough.
Fine you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by MU/Panther
For his part, Jeter and the assistants are totally above board, telling everyone this is a good place to work. They just deflect any questions about Braun and talk about the people.
However, the rest of the Bo Ryan coaching tree? Drop an acorn of truth from the top and watch it whack every branch on the way down.
The coaching fraternity is very, very close. AD's need to understand they have to tread lightly.
Also you gotta know that every single one of these candidates has talked to at least someone from the outgoing coaching staff.
Well sure, but you have to do what you think is best for yourself. Maybe, use what you hear for follow up questions, but not base my decision in what I hear.
Most definitely - but he didn't say that Jeter would make a decision, just that those interviewing would consult with him. If Jeter were trashing Amanda or the program, we wouldn't have the candidate list we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by MU/Panther
I hope that Donte Jackson and TJ Otzelberger are on the list; they weren't part of it when Goodman tweeted it out but I believe either would be a good hire. TJ is more of an impact recruiter than the assistants on the list, and Jackson is a head coach (and for one year a Panther) that took a good team and made them great very quickly.
It should be noted, although most people know this by now, that both coaches are Milwaukee guys. We should absolutely be considering a Milwaukee guy; it's not the end-all-be-all, but if they are great salesmen - and we know both of these guys are - the program could take a HUGE leap.
I believe that the next coach, if given the proper support from the university, could turn this place upside-down if they're the right guy. There is so much Milwaukee talent that plays elsewhere in Division I - high-major players, mid-major players, low-major players, these D-II guys at Stillman - and neither Madison nor Marquette is putting them all together.
Which is totally fine - Madison and Marquette are both recruiting nationally, because they want to get the best pool of players possible. It also means they wouldn't do this:
Do everything to bring the local talent to campus and keep them here. Every possible player from the City Conference, Greater Metro, Southeast Conference, North Shore...pitch them this: the State of Milwaukee.
This was touched on in the 30 for 30 "The U," where the players talked about how Howard Schnellenberger essentially built a wall of recruiting for the southern half of the state of Florida. Dubbed the "State of Miami," the Hurricanes essentially had the first right of refusal for any players in south Florida. It wasn't just Schnellenberger doing it, he had all the players talking up the idea to each other.
When Howard came into Miami, high school games would get more people than the university. There was a lot of talent in Miami and the surrounding area, and Schnellenberger successfully sold his first couple recruiting classes on the idea that the local talent, if assembled on one team, could achieve a high level - even national champions - just by going to college together.
I believe the same is true for Milwaukee. If a team were to recruit southeast Wisconsin and own the area players, they would be a very, very dangerous basketball team. This isn't just an idea for Milwaukee - the idea would work elsewhere as well. Marquette would be better positioned to do it, but as I've said they're looking nationally.
Every high school kid that qualifies, every JUCO kid from the city, every transfer who is from here - put them on a team and see just how high that team can go. My guess? Really damn high. Here are some of the area players and the schools they committed to, sorted by class:
2016
Bryce Nze - Milwaukee
Juwan McCloud - Northern Iowa
Te'Jon Lucas - Illinois
Kostas Antetokounmpo - Uncommitted
2015
Diamond Stone - Maryland
Raymond Doby - South Carolina
Garrison Goode - UC Davis
Ahmed Caver - Old Dominion
Levi Bradley - Northern Illinois
Jaylen Key - Northern Illinois
Paul Miller - NDSU
2014
TJ Schlundt - Wisconsin
Kevon Looney - UCLA
Riley LaChance - Vanderbilt
Lamonte Bearden - Buffalo
Fred Iduwe - Georgia
Brady Ellingsen - Iowa
Jake Showalter - NDSU
Evan Wesenberg - NDSU
Reed Timmer - Drake
2013
Duane Wilson - Marquette
Deonte Burton - Marquette
Luke Fischer - Indiana
Trevor Thomas - Virginia Tech
Jevon Thomas - Kansas State
Mario Matasovic - Western Michigan
Scotty Tyler - Idaho State
2012
Sam Dekker - Wisconsin
JP Tokoto - North Carolina
Philip Nolan - UConn
Jerron Wilbut - Seton Hall
Zak Showalter - Wisconsin
Mike Lang - Central Michigan
Jacoby Davis - Mississippi State
Aaron Ross - Texas Tech
Carrington Love - Green Bay
Elgin Cook - Oregon
Darrell Bowie - Northern Illinois
Jordan Fouse - Green Bay
Cinmeon Bowers - Auburn
2011
Marty Breunig - Washington
Paul Jesperson - Virginia
Mitchell Farr - Omaha
Jameel McKay - Marquette
Brandon Mobley - Seton Hall
John Kopriva - Vermont
Darrell Longstreet - Bradley
I didn't even put a lot of JUCO guys on that list. My point is, while we might not be able to ever put all of the players together, there's an incredible collection of talent that isn't collected. A Milwaukee guy - with the right message, at the right time, with the right support - could collect a lot of that local talent.
McDadenets50 shilling for Showalter over on the Eunuch board. I like the quote that he used. "His old pal Rob Jeter." Considering all the time that was wasted on Germantown players by our former staff, due to Showalter driving them to other teams, I highly doubt Jeter considers Showalter a pal. I certainly wouldn't, but these are minor details...
I'm about 99.99999% sure that was tongue-in-cheek.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of Bruce
In that case, well played. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by parkerj
I will be really ticked if Showalter gets consideration when Jerry Petitgoue and Tom Desotell are still on the market.
mcdadenets50 was joking - he's a funny guy, that mcdadenets50. I'm disappointed he hasn't made the move yet.
Dak, just because he has an interview, doesn't mean he has the job. No need to sweat yet...
Billeter is lined up for an interview? Very encouraging development if this is true.
I am sure he is a fine man, but look at this coaching history and tell me if it reminds you of anyone:
Tom Billeter Year-by-Year Overall Conf. Year School W L W L Finish 1992-93 North Dakota State 12 17 7 11 8th 1993-94 North Dakota State 21 9 * 14 4 2nd 1994-95 North Dakota State 22 8 * 12 6 t-1st 1995-96 North Dakota State 20 9 * 12 6 t-2nd 1996-97 North Dakota State 22 7 * 12 6 t-2nd 2003-04 Augustana 6 21 2 12 8th 2004-05 Augustana 8 20 1 11 7th 2005-06 Augustana 12 16 5 7 5th 2006-07 Augustana 16 12 3 9 5th 2007-08 Augustana 22 9 * 8 4 2nd 2008-09 Augustana 21 10 * 13 7 6th 2009-10 Augustana 24 7 * 15 5 3rd 2010-11 Augustana 18 9 15 7 3rd 2011-12 Augustana 17 11 * 14 8 t-4th 2012-13 Augustana 22 9 * 15 7 3rd 2013-14 Augustana 16 14 12 10 t-9th 2014-15 Augustana 31 3 * 20 2 t-1st 310 191 180 122
He had some very good seasons at NDSU. Then at Augustana he finished better than 3rd only twice, and many of those were 5th or worse. And I remind you that that was all in D2.
Didn't we just fire a guy who had some very good seasons long ago, and then was terminated for failing to be better than 3rd too often?
Again, this is NOT MEANT to be critical of Billeter, but critical of the seemingly hypocritical positions of Amanda Braun. Is there a lower set of standards for her for people she has "long standing professional relationships" with? - CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
One other question comes to mind: After what looks like a stellar run at NDSU (D2 at the time), why did it take so long for him to get a look as a D1 head coach. He spent the years between Head Coach gigs bouncing around as a D1 assistant under some pretty good/great coaches, but never seemed to get a look as a D1 head coach.
Maybe I am being too critical, but that doesn't seem to fit the pattern of a guy that is an "up and comer". Usually these types of guys go from D1 assistant to Mid Major HC, not back down to D2 for more than a decade. What am I missing? (and I ask that question sincerely)
The guy went 34-2 and won a national championship this year after winning 31 games the year before. How is this similar to any resume Rob Jeter has?
Why did it take Bo Ryan so long to get a D1 offer after dominating at Platteville for so many years? Linc Darner spent a decade at Florida Southern before winning a championship and getting the opportunity at Green Bay. I'm sure they're happy with their decision.
I think a lot of people are missing the big picture here.
There are only a few guys who make sense for this position. The most logical candidate, without question, is Pat Miller from Wisconsin-Whitewater.
What some fail to understand — this program, in it’s current state, is not appealing to outsiders. Not only that, financially, it’s not a fit for quality D1 assistants. If you’re a young, high major, D1 assistant, looking to move up the ladder, you’re not going to take this position. It's just not a situation someone wants to walk into.
So with that being said, the pool of candidates is very small.
The candidate needs to fit into these categories:
1.) Low Salary (200k range is my guess)
2.) Ties to Milwaukee and the state of Wisconsin — Especially Milwaukee Public Schools.
3.) Relationships and can bridge the gap between the african american population and the athletic department….which is clearly strained.
4.) Someone who currently knows some of the same boosters that fund UWM athletics.
If you look at that list — Miller is the only guy who makes any sense.
Why in the world would they bring in Tom Billester to recruit kids from the Dakotas? The city of Milwaukee has all the talent anyone needs. Not only that, Jeter and his staff were locked out of the city — they had a bad reputation in the city league. They have had one Milwaukee Public School kid on scholarship in the last six years. That relationship needs to be opened up again.
Miller recuits Milwuakee and has ties to the MPS and coaches. Just look at his previous rosters at UWW.
He deals with some of the same boosters and has had a ton of success within and around Milwaukee.
No only that, the Miller is young, energetic, feisty and and has a great track recored.
97, I was not at all being negative about Billeter, per se...I was only asking some questions. I don't know very much about this guy, beyond the bio and selected press clippings. I was asking about him to find out of there was an issue in his past or something like that which sort of derailed his career path.
I guess I am a bit gun shy about reclamation projects after we trued that with Pearl. Sure, the on the court success was incredible, but the aftermath and impacts to the program off the court was much less fun to deal with.
If this guy is otherwise good, and he has just been overlooked, so be it. That is good news for certain.
As for the questions on his record, I was merely pointing out that if you look at his previous seasons, his numbers are pretty similar to Jeter's really. If Jeter had been given the level of support I am sure Billeter had, it isn't unreasonable to think that Milwaukee could have had some pretty stellar seasons in the last few years. Jeter did take them to the dance only 2 season ago. The intent here was to be critical of the seemingly fluid goals and expectations of the athletic department.
Welcome to the U Board!Quote:
Originally Posted by LumsdenJ
I don't think the upside of Billeter is that he would open up South Dakota recruiting. I think he would, however, open up Minnesota and Iowa recruiting, and there are plenty of players in both states who would be about that life.
Good point Jimmy with hiring a coach with local/state ties. But Milwaukee tried that before with Ric Cobb and it failed miserably. We need to find a experienced, former D1 Coach who is itching to get back in the game and prove himself. With the heat that is on Braun, she better open up the wallet and hit a home run or otherwise her days are numbered.
I hate to say it, but he is right. Why would a guy who is successful at UND want to come to UWM? Yes, it is a better conference. Yes, it is a better market. But there is not a significant step up to go from the top of the Summit League to the middle of the HL. If he keeps winning at UND, he is going to get better offers soon. UWM right now does not strike me as an attractive job.
Come hear Uncle John's Band!
Actually, John, it is a step down.
Marquette does basketball; UWM does comedy. Dark comedy.
Billeter? He's at Division II Augustana, not UND.Quote:
Originally Posted by unclejohn
Billeter, if he wants to move on, likely will have his pick of many offers, some from programs that are in a better position for him to be successful in immediately. There are many openings right now, and sadly, we aren't exactly at the top of that list of opportunities. I would love it if this were not true, but it is, and I really don't think there is much debate on that.
Players are ready to leave and publicly questioning the character and honesty of the AD, major donors are publicly severing ties with the program, and the fan base is in a full on civil war. Not what I would call the best of openings...even in the Horizon League.