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IWB
11-16-2015, 09:29 PM
Sorry - WiFi troubles in first half.

MU having way too many defensive lapses against IUPUI. Need to tighten it up. Getting burned by ball screens.

Also way too many turnovers. At the 15:32 mark of the second half MU has 15 turnovers.

Win or lose, MU needs to turn it around before Iowa & LSU or it will get ugly.

Halo
11-16-2015, 09:55 PM
Going to be a long year guys.

Halo
11-16-2015, 10:08 PM
Just awful guys. Hard to watch stupid basketball.

Halo
11-16-2015, 10:12 PM
What is wrong with Duane Wilson so far this season? 3rd year.

IWB
11-16-2015, 10:15 PM
MU with 19 turnovers at the end of regulation.

Shot 56.5% from the field in the first half, 36% in the second half.

Halo
11-16-2015, 10:18 PM
Luke Fisher with 2 shots in the second half. I have no idea what Wilson is doing.

IWB
11-16-2015, 10:20 PM
Agree, but even when the fed the ball in to Luke he didn't look to shoot.

IWB
11-16-2015, 10:23 PM
Duane Wilson comes through when it matters most - converts the FT for the three point play as shot clock expires, putting MU up 4.

Halo
11-16-2015, 10:23 PM
True-he is being too passive. Maybe Wojo should hire this guy to coach our defense as IUPIU's defense looks tougher than ours.

Markedman
11-16-2015, 10:30 PM
Going to have to play zone again......our guys can't cover a chair right now.

If somebody other then Sandy doesn't find a 3 point shot teams are going to pack it in on Luke and Henry just like last year.

Just an ugly performance all the way around.

Mark Miller
11-16-2015, 10:35 PM
Growing pains. Could use Hauser and Rowsey out on the floor now with their ability to shoot.

Duane made the game-saving play. He may have prevented an 0-4 start, if not worse.

But the team will get better. Experience comes with time. No secret way to rush the process.

Markedman
11-16-2015, 10:43 PM
Going to have to play zone again......our guys can't cover a chair right now.

If somebody other then Sandy doesn't find a 3 point shot teams are going to pack it in on Luke and Henry just like last year.

Just an ugly performance all the way around.

Halo
11-16-2015, 10:45 PM
Duane with a big play to end it-but that was it. That was a terrible game for him and partly the reason they were in the spot to begin with.

MU now with 3 fouls on 3 point shooters in 2 games. I bet some teams have that in a whole season. Had hoped they would stop doing that this year also. Flying at the shooter.

Mark Miller
11-16-2015, 10:48 PM
Halo ... It will get better. It's the second game of the season with an extremely young team.

They pulled out a victory in a game they could have easily lost.

kneelb4zerg
11-16-2015, 10:58 PM
Going to be a long year guys.

Wait, after the Belmont game you said this team will be a 'blast to watch.' A year-long blast?

MU/Panther
11-16-2015, 10:59 PM
I don't see the one and done in Henry. Bad turnovers. Can't shoot from outside.

Gato78
11-16-2015, 11:01 PM
Cheatham is our best guard and I think he can shoot--but he is more likely to drive than shoot which makes his shooting difficult to evaluate at this point.

IrwinFletcher
11-16-2015, 11:02 PM
I am amazed at the amount of mental mistakes these guys make. Yes, I know they are young, but some of these mistakes are mistakes HS teams shouldn't make. Need to get this stuff cleaned up or what was once a hopeful year will be an incredibly frustrating one.

Halo
11-16-2015, 11:05 PM
Wait, after the Belmont game you said this team will be a 'blast to watch.' A year-long blast?

I did say that. Then I saw this and saw crap defense again and almost finding a way to lose in the last minute again. To IUPIUP. Which is it?

We finished the Belmont game with no shots and 2 turnovers. In regulation today, same thing up by 4.

Halo
11-16-2015, 11:06 PM
Halo ... It will get better. It's the second game of the season with an extremely young team.

They pulled out a victory in a game they could have easily lost.

Hope so Mark. Some of these mistakes are the same as last year though and have me concerned. It's early though as you say.

MUfan12
11-16-2015, 11:11 PM
The inability to execute in a man defense is really concerning. I know last year he didn't have the personnel, but Wojo has his guys, and had a two month head start.

kneelb4zerg
11-16-2015, 11:12 PM
I did say that. Then I saw this and saw crap defense again and almost finding a way to lose in the last minute again. To IUPIUP. Which is it?

We finished the Belmont game with no shots and 2 turnovers. In regulation today, same thing up by 4.

Which is it? Maybe it's too early to make blanket statements - good or bad.

Nukem2
11-16-2015, 11:14 PM
Cheatham is our best guard and I think he can shoot--but he is more likely to drive than shoot which makes his shooting difficult to evaluate at this point.

Yes. But he has been a turnstile in man defense. Opposing guards have been blowing by him.

Gato78
11-16-2015, 11:19 PM
Unfortunately, Henry has defensive problems. Terrible help and weak side defense and he is not so good man to man. He needs get in the gym.

Halo
11-16-2015, 11:19 PM
Which is it? Maybe it's too early to make blanket statements - good or bad.

what fun is that?

MU/Panther
11-16-2015, 11:19 PM
Arizona State just beat Belmont.

Halo
11-16-2015, 11:20 PM
The inability to execute in a man defense is really concerning. I know last year he didn't have the personnel, but Wojo has his guys, and had a two month head start.

Agree. My biggest frustration. I accepted it with Belmont as a great system team and well coached and our first game. To see this team tear it up...:mad:

21rooster
11-16-2015, 11:22 PM
My positive thought for the night: 83% free throw shooting won the game for MU.

79warrior
11-17-2015, 12:00 AM
I don't see the one and done in Henry. Bad turnovers. Can't shoot from outside.

Two games into the season? Jeez, why not let him get 10 or 15 games under his belt before we draw conclusions.

Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
11-17-2015, 06:01 AM
Sweeping generalizations everywhere, way too early for that. A few thoughts...

Duane wasn't great, but was still 7/15 for 16 points. Turned it over too much, a few ill-advised shots, but that's a pretty good night for an off night. He was good scoring inside the arc and looks like he just needs to let the game come to him.
Henry may not be one-and-done, but I think people are forgetting the NBA drafts on upside, and if you don't see lottery talent there, I'd recommend getting your eyes checked. He has a ridiculous skill level for someone that big. He's not a finished product, but few NBA rookies are. Justise Winslow, Trey Lyles, Noah Vonleh, Alex Len, Nerlens Noel, and Steven Adams were all big man lottery picks the past three years. Henry should out-produce any of them at the college level. It's not the numbers but the upside that gets you drafted, and he has a ton.
That said, if Henry did come back, he'd be scary as a sophomore. I can only imagine what he would look like given a year of conditioning and strength training. So good, but so raw and still just that unrefined body.
We turned it over 20 times and won the game.
We don't yet know what IUPUI will be, but Combs, Osbourne, and O'Leary all looked like pretty decent players. They certainly looked better than their RPI last season. My guess is Indiana State (picked middle of the MVC) would agree.
We'll know a lot more about this team in a week. I'd be overjoyed to get to 3-2, but wouldn't be surprised by 1-4 right now.

MU/Panther
11-17-2015, 06:51 AM
Two games into the season? Jeez, why not let him get 10 or 15 games under his belt before we draw conclusions.
Your drawing conclusions by my comments as he playing bad or not a good player in an MU uniform.. Just saying it's a joke if the talking heads have him before the season started as a lottery pick.

MKE_GoldenEagleFan
11-17-2015, 06:55 AM
Your drawing conclusions by my comments as he playing bad or not a good player in an MU uniform.. Just saying it's a joke if the talking heads have him before the season started as a lottery pick.

Are you serious? As mentioned earlier, the NBA draft is entirely on potential, if you don't see that in Henry I'm not sure what to say, the kid is absolutely oozing with it. Is he a complete product now? No of course not, but look at the first round picks from college and tell me which ones were. If Henry wants he will be a first round pick next year.

kneelb4zerg
11-17-2015, 06:56 AM
Too many turnovers = too many empty possessions. They need Carter to step up and claim the starting PG role and play 20-25 minutes at the spot. PG is the weak link right now. If they cut the turnovers in half they win going away.

MU/Panther
11-17-2015, 07:13 AM
Are you serious? As mentioned earlier, the NBA draft is entirely on potential, if you don't see that in Henry I'm not sure what to say, the kid is absolutely oozing with it. Is he a complete product now? No of course not, but look at the first round picks from college and tell me which ones were. If Henry wants he will be a first round pick next year.
I knew when i brought this up, this would stir the pot. I don't care about draft potential. I'm not a draft geek. Didn't they have him listed at 6. Good lord.

IrwinFletcher
11-17-2015, 07:14 AM
Too many turnovers = too many empty possessions. They need Carter to step up and claim the starting PG role and play 20-25 minutes at the spot. PG is the weak link right now. If they cut the turnovers in half they win going away.

They had 11 TO's on Friday vs Belmont and lost.

I think Cheatham played pretty well and was the one guy who was successful taking the ball to the rim. Carter seems tentative and fired up a real bad 3 in the 2nd half. I think it might take a bit longer for him to come around and Cheatham deserves to be starting right now.

kneelb4zerg
11-17-2015, 07:18 AM
They had 11 TO's on Friday vs Belmont and lost.

I think Cheatham played pretty well and was the one guy who was successful taking the ball to the rim. Carter seems tentative and fired up a real bad 3 in the 2nd half. I think it might take a bit longer for him to come around and Cheatham deserves to be starting right now.

Belmont is a better team. I was talking about this game.

MKE_GoldenEagleFan
11-17-2015, 08:38 AM
I knew when i brought this up, this would stir the pot. I don't care about draft potential. I'm not a draft geek. Didn't they have him listed at 6. Good lord.

Go look back at some of the guys that have been picked top 10 in the last 5 years. His numbers, his potential, it's all there. Sure he has made mistakes, but you don't have to be perfect to be drafted top 10.

IrwinFletcher
11-17-2015, 08:54 AM
Go look back at some of the guys that have been picked top 10 in the last 5 years. His numbers, his potential, it's all there. Sure he has made mistakes, but you don't have to be perfect to be drafted top 10.

NBA Draft is so dependant on potential and that is what is hurting the game.

Doug McDermott is having trouble getting off the bench and on to the court right now because he cannot guard anyone. Offensively, he is starting to be able to help out, but he is such a liability on the defensive end that he is hurting the team.

Now, Doug was a senior when he was drafted and Henry is a freshman so I am sure scouts and GMs will say they will be able to teach him defense, but that is the inherent risk of the NBA draft.

Henry has 6 months to get better and I am sure he will, on both ends of the court. And then he will be drafted in the middle of the first round.

TheSultan
11-17-2015, 09:01 AM
What concerns me about Henry is that it may provide an example of why one-and-done talent might be better off going to teams where they are surrounded by potential NBA players. He is the only guy on this team that I can legitimately see playing in the NBA. (Save for a couple of other freshmen who are playing like freshmen.)

MU/Panther
11-17-2015, 09:41 AM
NBA Draft is so dependant on potential and that is what is hurting the game.

.
BINGO! College and Pro. The NBA needs to do the NFL model.

TheSultan
11-17-2015, 09:58 AM
Now that the NBA has trying to expand the D-league so that every team has a franchise (and the Bucks look like they will be starting one), it is pretty clear that the NBA will have no incentive to change its current system. It will have a true "minor league" in place where players drafted on potential can be seasoned. The NBA product is pretty good right now anyway. I would argue a lot better than it was 10-15 years ago.

RJax55
11-17-2015, 11:32 AM
Now that the NBA has trying to expand the D-league so that every team has a franchise (and the Bucks look like they will be starting one), it is pretty clear that the NBA will have no incentive to change its current system. It will have a true "minor league" in place where players drafted on potential can be seasoned. The NBA product is pretty good right now anyway. I would argue a lot better than it was 10-15 years ago.

Spot on. The NBA product has gotten much better and a true minor league with each NBA team controlling a D-league team will only be a benefit to the league.

RJax55
11-17-2015, 11:58 AM
On a different note, last night's game was very depressing. Now, I didn't see the Belmont game, but here's what I was hoping for:

*Decent (not even good) man-to-man defense
*Transition offense
*Winning 50/50 balls
*Improvement from the returning players

Other than perhaps Sandy's play, I didn't see any of those four things. Last night look way too much like our games from past two years. And, yes, I know it is very early and the team is very young, but I would have a hard time believing that Wojo was pleased with that effort.

Finally, at least early in non-conference, Wojo should stick to the zone. That's our best chance to beat Iowa on Thursday and do well in NYC.