Butler Thread

[Nukem2]

Jones is going to,be a load in this game.

[Mark Miller]

Wojo not at all pleased with that foul call.

[TheSultan]

Dumb technical regardless.

[Mucrisco]

Someone has to clean up after Fischer gets those blocks!

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Let the "no derrick" lineup play a little more wojo...please

[Mark Miller]

No problem with the offense. Defense can't get stops or play without fouling.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

I know he scored 30 against us but how good is this chrabasz (sp?) because this Butler team doesn't impress me thst much without him.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Not a good half for Wojo:

-bad technical foul, he needs to chill out
-with steve at the 5, you can't play Sandy at the 4. Even with Juan having 2 fouls, if you are going to give Luke a break, you have to put Juan at the 4 even with the 2 fouls
-how do you have Derrick Wilson in for the last possession coming out of a timeout knowing we have zero need for defense.

[Mark Miller]

Not a good half for Wojo:

-bad technical foul, he needs to chill out
-with steve at the 5, you can't play Sandy at the 4. Even with Juan having 2 fouls, if you are going to give Luke a break, you have to put Juan at the 4 even with the 2 fouls
-how do you have Derrick Wilson in for the last possession coming out of a timeout knowing we have zero need for defense.

Derrick was on the floor because we have zero need for a turnover.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Derrick was on the floor because we have zero need for a turnover.

I disagree Mark - that's called playing scared. That's a play to not lose strategy, not a play to win strategy. It's one possession where we need creativity and offense...zero need for Derrick there.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Maybe I'm drinking the kool-aide but I really think Luke is going to go down as one of the best big men to play at Marq. He seems to be improving game by game.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

brutal and pivotal call against Luke for his 3rd foul

[MUMac]

Not a good half for Wojo:

-bad technical foul, he needs to chill out
-with steve at the 5, you can't play Sandy at the 4. Even with Juan having 2 fouls, if you are going to give Luke a break, you have to put Juan at the 4 even with the 2 fouls
-how do you have Derrick Wilson in for the last possession coming out of a timeout knowing we have zero need for defense.

Not sure that I agree. A couple of reasons. It looked to me that the players were getting frustrated with the calls. Right before the T was called, JJ turned to the ref and was barking. FS1 cut away to a previous timeout with Wojo instructing the team. When I heard the whistle, my first thought was it was on JJ. Wojo may have seen that and got it himself instead.

Secondly, he was showing his team that he is standing up for them. Again, they were getting frustrated with the calls. He has their back.

[TheSultan]

They were on a little run, Duane just cut it to 3. You don't take a technical there.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

I dont have a problem with getting a tech, just didn't think it was necessary there. Shouldve saved it for Luke's 3rd foul :)

[MUMac]

They were on a little run, Duane just cut it to 3. You don't take a technical there.

As I said, when it was called I thought it was on JJ. It may have been a bad one or he may have saved JJ. I don't know which it was and I know that you do not either.

[RJax55]

Killer sequence there... Derrick loses Durham off the inbound and then a bad forced drive by Duane. Too many mental errors

[TedBaxter]

Bad move by Derrick not to go to the basket with the Cohen pass.

Duane has to stop going into the lane as they aren't going to call fouls.

[Mark Miller]

JaJuan has a difficult time determining good shot selection.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

JaJuan has a difficult time determining good shot selection.

agreed, but his main issue is on the other end of the floor. Has zero understading of defensive concepts.

[RJax55]

Tough half for Duane

[RJax55]

Wojo has talked about this all season, but this team doesn't talk. Too many times this year we have had guys running into screens. Frustrating to watch and dangerous as well.

[Mark Miller]

Tough half for Duane

Tough season for everybody.

[TedBaxter]

I think I know a little about basketball. Wideman set 4 illegal picks in the same posession and no foul called. These refs let the game get out of hand.

[Markedman]

Men against boys

[IrwinFletcher]

This is just so sad. We are back to Crean's first season. There is soooo much talent on this team but just can't put it together. This turnaround is going to take longer than I had thought.

[Mucrisco]

We need a Kellen Dunham on our team. A 6'6 dead eye shooter would be perfect for us.

[TedBaxter]

This is just so sad. We are back to Crean's first season. There is soooo much talent on this team but just can't put it together. This turnaround is going to take longer than I had thought.

Not that much talent and definitely not the right mix. Tired of MU fans trying to overinflate the talent level.

[Markedman]

I don't think there is "so" much talent at all. We have a few pieces in Luke and Duane.....JJ is hot or terrible....Sandy is a freshman who plays like 1......Need a major talent infusion(and size and toughness)...it should start next year

[Mucrisco]

I think we'll be a tournament team next year.

[IrwinFletcher]

Not that much talent and definitely not the right mix. Tired of MU fans trying to overinflate the talent level.

Well then, we need to cease discussions on recruiting and the associated rankings. Are you saying Duane isn't talented? Luke isn't talented? JJJ isn't talented? Taylor? Carlino?

[MayorBeluga]

Unfortunately it's looking more and more like we are 2 years away from truly being competitive. Too many holes need to be filled.

[TedBaxter]

Fischer is pissed. Backed Wideman all the way out behind the basket.

[RJax55]

I think we'll be a tournament team next year.

We need to get much more physical for that to happen. And, we lose the one guy (Derrick) who brings that element.

[IrwinFletcher]

Need to get a lot tougher. Need to rebound so much better. Need to shoot better. Just a long way to go.

[Mucrisco]

I don't think we're that far away guys. Our problem right now is scoring. Take a Derrick out of the lineup and insert Ellenson. That alone helps out the offense so much. It frees up guys like Fischer and Duane. It gives them more space and time to operate. A guy like Cohen will have more time to shoot. We just need that shooter.

[Mark Miller]

Marquette needs a guy like Wideman. Physical, tough.

[Markedman]

It's funny how different people can look at the same thing and see things so differently.....if I'm being honest I think we are the least talented team in the conference.....which is the major reason why we are in last place.

[Mucrisco]

We need to get much more physical for that to happen. And, we lose the one guy (Derrick) who brings that element.

Meh. You lose Derrick and you add Ellenson and that length alone is going to keep more teams out of the paint.

[Mucrisco]

I just don't think the pieces fit yet.

[IrwinFletcher]

Barlow is a Senior
Woods is a Senior
Dunham is a Junior
Jones is a redshirt Soph

Goes to show how important it is to keep guys around for 4 years. We counter with Derrick, a transfer and Taylor who has battled injuries.

[Nukem2]

Barlow is a Senior
Woods is a Senior
Dunham is a Junior
Jones is a redshirt Soph

Goes to show how important it is to keep guys around for 4 years. We counter with Derrick, a transfer and Taylor who has battled injuries.
Jones is a RS junior...

[IrwinFletcher]

It's funny how different people can look at the same thing and see things so differently.....if I'm being honest I think we are the least talented team in the conference.....which is the major reason why we are in last place.

I know we talk all the time about rankings not really meaning anything, but then why do we talk about it. Over half of these guys were ranked in the RSCI Top 100. So are they not good? Is it coaching? No development?

[TedBaxter]

Well then, we need to cease discussions on recruiting and the associated rankings. Are you saying Duane isn't talented? Luke isn't talented? JJJ isn't talented? Taylor? Carlino?

Let me explain. Marquette has some talent, but it's talent in the freshman and sophomore classes and tonight they played a team that just beats the hell out of you and is junior and senior dominated. I mentioned when they first played that 4 or 5 guys from Butler played major minutes against MU in the 2012-2013 NCAA game when the MU players were still in high school and Marquette's talent isn't head and shoulders above Butler. As was said, men versus boys tonight.

I agree with MUCrisco and I've gone farther and said MU will challenge for the top 25 late next year. I expect Wojo will recruit two guys yet who will challenge for rotation minutes, if not starter spots.

[Markedman]

Actually Jones is a redshirt junior but your point still stands. Experience sure helps......they just manhandled us in the 2nd half....just way more physical and really got good looks or free throws on almost every possession

[IrwinFletcher]

Actually Jones is a redshirt junior but your point still stands. Experience sure helps......they just manhandled us in the 2nd half....just way more physical and really got good looks or free throws on almost every possession

I get the terminology mixed up often. And this is why it is imperative to have JJJ come back. He will get better, be more mature, be stronger etc.

[21rooster]

Completely disagree with Windy about the T. Wojo is teaching these guys to go straight up without leaving their feet. The players do everything he asks, and the refs are consistently calling it a defensive foul when the guy jumps into them. Same thing fired Wojo up during the Nova game. At some point, he needs to stand up for his players or it's hard to tell the guys to play d like that.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

If Anim or Cheatham or any guard that comes in can keep his man in front of him, he will earn minutes. With Duane, Luke, and Henry I think we will have some nice offensive weapons, we need to find a guy or two who can flat out d up. I know it's been discussed here before, but as much as I want to like JJ, he's just too big of a liability on the defensive and I don't see that ever changing and because of that I don't see him earning many minutes next year.

[mufan2003]

I keep saying somebody needs to work with JJ on his shot. He turns his right hip and shoulder towards the rim when he shoots. Needs to square up like Duane and Sandy. That should be his focus this summer along with adding 10+ pounds in muscle. Easy for me to say:D.

[IrwinFletcher]

If Anim or Cheatham or any guard that comes in can keep his man in front of him, he will earn minutes. With Duane, Luke, and Henry I think we will have some nice offensive weapons, we need to find a guy or two who can flat out d up. I know it's been discussed here before, but as much as I want to like JJ, he's just too big of a liability on the defensive and I don't see that ever changing and because of that I don't see him earning many minutes next year.

So if JJJ transfers, what happens if Anim or Cheatham can't defend? Who is to say JJJ can't get better?

If we keep exchanging guys who would be juniors for guys who are fresh out of HS, we are starting behind most teams because of lack of experience.

JJJ has shown some flashes offensively and has the quickness and length that can make him an effective defensive player.

[79warrior]

Well then, we need to cease discussions on recruiting and the associated rankings. Are you saying Duane isn't talented? Luke isn't talented? JJJ isn't talented? Taylor? Carlino?

Take off the sun glasses. The talent level is no where near what you think it is. JJJ is soft and has no shot. In fact, there is not a perimeter shooter in the group other than Matt, and he is leaving. Worst jump shooting team in years at MU.

I will give you this, Fisher and Duane are legit starters next season among the returning players. After that, who knows.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I keep saying somebody needs to work with JJ on his shot. He turns his right hip and shoulder towards the rim when he shoots. Needs to square up like Duane and Sandy. That should be his focus this summer along with adding 10+ pounds in muscle. Easy for me to say:D.

That angle shot has been driving me nuts for two years. Makes Vander's freshman form look pretty.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

So if JJJ transfers, what happens if Anim or Cheatham can't defend? Who is to say JJJ can't get better?

If we keep exchanging guys who would be juniors for guys who are fresh out of HS, we are starting behind most teams because of lack of experience.

JJJ has shown some flashes offensively and has the quickness and length that can make him an effective defensive player.

Where did I say I want JJ to transfer?

I agree with your philosophy that less roster turnover leads to higher probability of sustainable success. I think JJ can improve offensively and defensively (cant get much worse defensively). However, imo (just my opinion) he is way too far behind defensively imo to get to a necessary level to compete on that end of the floor in the Big East and will therefore always be too big of a liability.

[Gato78]

...I saw our guys give in to fatigue and frustration--right after Dunham hit the successive threes. It has been a tough year for our guys and it really showed at that point. Cannot blame them. One of the things about this team, prior to this game, they have never given up--and they have never been booed at the BC, rightfully so. I am glad we will be turning the page soon.

[Gato78]

Officiating has been at its all time worst this season across the board. NCAA or leagues need to make some changes.

[Markedman]

We got 5 total rebounds from Luke, steve, and Juan in 50 minutes of game time. MU didn't have any player with more then 3 rebounds......not sure I've ever seen that happen in a game before at any level

[IrwinFletcher]

Out of curiosity, for those who have seen Henry play. Would you consider him tough? Certainly bringing in an athletic 6'11" kid will help rebounding, but how would you describe his toughness?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

We need a guy to do the dirty work. A bruiser, dare I say even a thug who'll just go get the damn ball. Those old Bob Huggins Cincy type players that would leave you with a black eye, missing lunch money, and get the putback at the same time. The kind of player everyone hates except the fans of his team.

[MUfan12]

Completely disagree with Windy about the T. Wojo is teaching these guys to go straight up without leaving their feet. The players do everything he asks, and the refs are consistently calling it a defensive foul when the guy jumps into them. Same thing fired Wojo up during the Nova game. At some point, he needs to stand up for his players or it's hard to tell the guys to play d like that.

This. And this is the second time he's gotten a T, and the whistle shifted in MU's favor. Butler picked up 5 fouls in the first three or four minutes of the second half.

[warriorfan4life]

I think JJ is basically a freshman this year, and it has helped me view his inconsistencies in a more productive light. After thinking that he could not take to coaching, he has impressed me by reworking his shot and playing much more within the flow of the game in his recent outings. He was not good tonight, but young players often struggle against good teams in hostile environments. I actually think that a mid-career redshirt year at Marquette would do him a world of good, but realize that is more a thought that is likely not grounded in reality.

[Djgoldnboy]

Call me the optimist, but I think we will be just fine next year. 4-5th in the league. Another year of experience for some, add in some athleticism, as well as some height and a burger boy, another year of the players under Wojo's system.....I like the direction the program is heading.

The one thing I really wish is that we had one more year out of Carlino, I think him on next years team could be a PERFECT fit.

[TheSultan]

I know we talk all the time about rankings not really meaning anything, but then why do we talk about it. Over half of these guys were ranked in the RSCI Top 100. So are they not good? Is it coaching? No development?


1. Lack of experience
2. Not well rounded talent (no shooters, no rebounders, no wing to attack the basket, bad PG)
3. Not enough physicality for the Big East

I think that the underclassmen have developed. Duane has the makings of a all conference player as a junior and senior. JJJ is much better than last year. Luke struggles, but he is basically in his first year right now. Sandy has grown as well.

[Nukem2]

1. Lack of experience
2. Not well rounded talent (no shooters, no rebounders, no wing to attack the basket, bad PG)
3. Not enough physicality for the Big East

I think that the underclassmen have developed. Duane has the makings of a all conference player as a junior and senior. JJJ is much better than last year. Luke struggles, but he is basically in his first year right now. Sandy has grown as well.
Agreed. #2 constitutes an unbalanced roster arising from recruiting misses and the coaching changeover.

[Djgoldnboy]

1. Lack of experience
2. Not well rounded talent (no shooters, no rebounders, no wing to attack the basket, bad PG)
3. Not enough physicality for the Big East

I think that the underclassmen have developed. Duane has the makings of a all conference player as a junior and senior. JJJ is much better than last year. Luke struggles, but he is basically in his first year right now. Sandy has grown as well.

Luke is really going to benefit when teams have to worry about more than just one of our bigs scoring....hopefully HE is the real deal and that will give Luke more opportunity to not be the sole target of the opposing teams defense down low. I'm not expecting much out of Heldt the first year, but even just having another big body down there they have to worry about will help Luke.