View Full Version : Game thread - MU vs Eastern Illinois
Interesting tie-ins...
While Eastern Illinois features former Racine Case star D'Angelo Jackson, they also have assistant Tone Boyle, former UWM star.
How often do we need to talk about MU's defense? I know it was said in an earlier thread, but that is where the Cheatham loss will hurt.
Not sure who it was, Ted maybe? That was talking about the hedging of screens today.
Last two possessions Theo John was hedging screens at damn near 1/2 court. On the second one they scored on a layup. Not his man, but there's no help D when the help is out at half court hedging a screen.
MayorBeluga
11-27-2017, 07:48 PM
Brutal is an understatement for that first half. Rowsey again puts up awful shots instead of passing. Wojo sits him and the offense runs better. Sigh.
ge1974
11-27-2017, 07:52 PM
Folks at the game are missing Dickey Simpkins and his insights on the college football playoff.
TedBaxter
11-27-2017, 08:02 PM
Not sure who it was, Ted maybe? That was talking about the hedging of screens today.
Last two possessions Theo John was hedging screens at damn near 1/2 court. On the second one they scored on a layup. Not his man, but there's no help D when the help is out at half court hedging a screen.
Wasn't me. This is only the 3rd game I've seen MU play this year.
ge1974
11-27-2017, 08:07 PM
EIU just scored on another Heldt hedge. Wojo said during an earlier timeout that he doesn't want any paint touches. If that is the case perhaps he should go to a zone
pbiflyer
11-27-2017, 08:12 PM
EIU just scored on another Heldt hedge. Wojo said during an earlier timeout that he doesn't want any paint touches. If that is the case perhaps he should go to a zone
I don't understand the benefit of the hedge. Are they going to score from 35 feet out?
I have no problem hedging screens, I teach it and it can be very effective.
But there are two problems here...
1) Hedging way to far from the lane. Your guard should not allow himself to be screened out there so no need for a hedge. Also pulls your big way to far from his effective area.
2) Multiple times. I don't even know how to explain this as I have never seen it before, but there is a screen on Markus - Heldt hedges the screen and stops the PG. He heads in the other direction, there is another screen and Heldt hedges again. The guard heads the other way, Heldt tries to rebound for what would be a third hedge-in one, but can't get there. So now Heldt is gassed from running around chasing the PG about 7 feet beyond the arc - I don't understand that.
MU playing with three frosh and two sophs right now and I'm liking the lineup.
Both Jamal Cain & Greg Elliott create so many problems for shooters - I can't wait for these two guys to develop!
MayorBeluga
11-27-2017, 08:28 PM
Rowsey doesn't wAit for the screen to be set or he leaves too much room. It's his fault we're getting all those moving screens. Sigh
TedBaxter
11-27-2017, 08:50 PM
Not good even if they come back to win.
Eastern Ill had the game until Terrell Lewis decided he was a better long range shooter than Steph Curry.
Don't understand what Spoon did with Starks - 27 pts & 8 rebs and he removes him for almost all of OT?
Not good even if they come back to win.
Its a little good.
MUfan12
11-27-2017, 09:37 PM
That was awful to sit through. I felt like they coasted through a good chunk of the VCU and LSU games, and decided to do it again tonight. Focus, discipline, execution all poor.
Hopefully this wakes them up.
Markedman
11-27-2017, 10:19 PM
When you dependent on 2 undersized guards for your offense when they play bad......and boy did they play bad.....it is going to be ugly.
We are playing mostly sophomore and Freshmen.....depleted roster gives us few options.
Like the toughness of Elliott and Cain but they both need to get a lot stronger.......we definitely need the athleticism but they are freshmen so decision making is an issue.
Right now my expectations for this season are pretty low.....defense is no better and offense not as good.
IrwinFletcher
11-27-2017, 10:57 PM
Agree with you MM on expectations on the season. This team just got really young today, we have two undersized guards and a front court even with Froling is not going to be very tough or very good defensively. This season is about getting the freshman acclimated to the point they can be impact players next season.
Just lacking so much right now. Glad we pulled this one out (somehow).
MUAlphaBangura
11-28-2017, 07:35 AM
Agree with you MM on expectations on the season. This team just got really young today, we have two undersized guards and a front court even with Froling is not going to be very tough or very good defensively. This season is about getting the freshman acclimated to the point they can be impact players next season.
Just lacking so much right now. Glad we pulled this one out (somehow).
Agree with both you and MM completely. And to me what is most concerning is the bolded part of your comment given this is year #4 of the Wojo regime. Just feel we should be farther along. I get the whole next year thing, with all the reinforcements coming, but this is not a good look for the 4th year of a rebuild. I'm sure they will progress as the season goes by.
Djgoldnboy
11-28-2017, 08:38 AM
Agree with both you and MM completely. And to me what is most concerning is the bolded part of your comment given this is year #4 of the Wojo regime. Just feel we should be farther along. I get the whole next year thing, with all the reinforcements coming, but this is not a good look for the 4th year of a rebuild. I'm sure they will progress as the season goes by.
How about we let them play out the season and see what happens......year 4, coming off an NCAA berth and the foundation looks VERY promising, the freshman look good, albeit it young.
He took over a total mess and is building it his way now, the trajectory is still up.
MUAlphaBangura
11-28-2017, 08:56 AM
How about we let them play out the season and see what happens......year 4, coming off an NCAA berth and the foundation looks VERY promising, the freshman look good, albeit it young.
He took over a total mess and is building it his way now, the trajectory is still up.
Pretty much what I said. But having 3 players you can count on in the 4th year of a rebuild is not close to an ideal situation. I would think at this stage(4th year), you shouldn't need to count on Freshmen to be an integral part of the rotation. It would be great if they were able to do so but most are not able to be a significant factor. In time, I like what I see from our 3 new guys.
And in year 4, with a stated emphasis over the summer about becoming a better defensive team, we clearly are not. That is a concern to me. It may not be to you or others. People have opinions and we are not all going to agree on everything. Doesn't mean that those of us with concerns care any less or are less engaged with the program. That said, I believe we will be a much better team come next season. I just don't see too much of an upward trajectory this year.
My thoughts exactly on both points Bangura.
In the beginning of the year all you heard about the off season was the defensive focus. To date the defense has not shown that.
Next - I have always said that a new coaching contract should be 5 years. 4 years to get your own complete roster and a 5th for the final product. Still not to the 5th year yet, but the 4th year should be a full solid roster, not 8/9 available scholarship players.
Freshmen: Elliott, Cain, John, (Redshirt Eke)
Sophomores: Hauser, Howard, Anim (RS), Frohling, Morrow (RS)
Juniors: Heldt
Senior: Rowsey
One senior & one junior. That's not a great mix for a fourth season.
IrwinFletcher
11-29-2017, 04:43 PM
5 Years also assumes that everything works out perfectly. You have no transfers and all recruits are able to play competently to greatly at the D1 level.
Wojo has recruited very well in his limited time and he has installed a great offense. This team struggles defensively for sure, but it can be corrected if not by strategy, then by some of the players he has coming in.
I for one believe he has at least this season and next before we completely evaluate his performance.
5 Years also assumes that everything works out perfectly. You have no transfers and all recruits are able to play competently to greatly at the D1 level.
That is why 5 years is what it should be, if everything worked out perfectly it would be four.
Transfers - is the average between 3-4 per year per team? That is expected in this day and age.
Recruits playing competently on the D1 level - that is all on the coaching staff and their evaluation of players. That would be like saying, "You can't blame Deane/Crean that Krunti Hester, Craig Aamot and Kevin Menard weren't good enough to play at this level."
The two things above are all part of the deal.
Don't get me wrong, I think Wojo is recruiting great players and I think MU is on the right track to become a very good team. But transfers, excluding those that were recruited by the previous coach, all impact the coach's overall performance.
Duane Wilson, Deonte Burton, John Dawson, Steve Taylor - those weren't Wojo's guys so you can't really put those on him, though D Wilson did stay for a couple of years under Wojo... But guys like Wally Ellenson, Traci Carter, Sandy Cohen and Haanif Cheatham - those all play a part of determining a coach's performance.
Like the poster above, I wish MU was further along than they are, but at the same time I am very excited about a future with Elliott, Cain, Howard, the Hauser family, John, Morrow, Eke, Frohling, Bailey etc.
pbiflyer
11-30-2017, 04:43 PM
That is why 5 years is what it should be, if everything worked out perfectly it would be four.
Transfers - is the average between 3-4 per year per team? That is expected in this day and age.
Recruits playing competently on the D1 level - that is all on the coaching staff and their evaluation of players. That would be like saying, "You can't blame Deane/Crean that Krunti Hester, Craig Aamot and Kevin Menard weren't good enough to play at this level."
The two things above are all part of the deal.
Don't get me wrong, I think Wojo is recruiting great players and I think MU is on the right track to become a very good team. But transfers, excluding those that were recruited by the previous coach, all impact the coach's overall performance.
Duane Wilson, Deonte Burton, John Dawson, Steve Taylor - those weren't Wojo's guys so you can't really put those on him, though D Wilson did stay for a couple of years under Wojo... But guys like Wally Ellenson, Traci Carter, Sandy Cohen and Haanif Cheatham - those all play a part of determining a coach's performance.
Like the poster above, I wish MU was further along than they are, but at the same time I am very excited about a future with Elliott, Cain, Howard, the Hauser family, John, Morrow, Eke, Frohling, Bailey etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65YIlwxBuvM
(and just to clarify, I am with you IWB. Not ideal, but excited about the direction.)
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