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Nukem2
03-20-2016, 08:54 PM
What is Xavier doing tonight? Lots of forced shots and poor defense. Down 17-8. Not looking good.

MU_Iceman
03-20-2016, 08:57 PM
Of course they are missing shots...said that to a buddy today, that of course UW will win because a Xavier team that couldn't miss shots most of the year would be clanking them left and right tonight...that's what happens to Wisconsin(luckiest team in the country every year)...and it ain't good defense, they are just missing shots. I'm not watching it, but has Mack gone to zone yet?? If not, he should be...UW has never seen a zone like that.

MUwarrior1090
03-20-2016, 08:58 PM
Of course they are missing shots...said that to a buddy today, that of course UW will win because a Xavier team that couldn't miss shots most of the year would be clanking them left and right tonight...that's what happens to Wisconsin(luckiest team in the country every year)...and it ain't good defense, they are just missing shots. I'm not watching it, but has Mack gone to zone yet?? If not, he should be...UW has never seen a zone like that.

Wisconsin already shredded the 1-3-1 on 3 possessions in a row. Not going to work against them.

Wisconsin isn't lucky. They aren't just randomly good on defense every year.

MUAlphaBangura
03-20-2016, 08:59 PM
I've never seen Wisconsin get such wide open shots ever.

MUfan12
03-20-2016, 09:11 PM
Danger zone here. If this gets to 10+ going into half, it'll be really hard for X to come back on them.

Sumner has been brutal.

Nukem2
03-20-2016, 09:15 PM
Yes, Sumner has been awful. Needs to let the game come to him. Just forcing so much other than a couple plays.

Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
03-20-2016, 09:17 PM
Xavier with their first lead.

DCwarrior
03-20-2016, 09:25 PM
As bad as they played, they're still up at the half

Nukem2
03-20-2016, 09:26 PM
Wow, a 3 point lead at half after a brutal first half of play.

MUwarrior1090
03-20-2016, 09:31 PM
Wow, a 3 point lead at half after a brutal first half of play.

Wisconsin has missed a lot of open shots too.

Nukem2
03-20-2016, 09:53 PM
Xavier keeps rushing it's shots. Need to be patient.

Mucrisco
03-20-2016, 09:58 PM
Xavier is putting up bad shots. Wisconsin's pace will do that to you.

Nukem2
03-20-2016, 09:58 PM
Pass the fricking bal.

DCwarrior
03-20-2016, 10:00 PM
Need to go hard at Happ and get him his 4th foul

Mucrisco
03-20-2016, 10:08 PM
Feed the post every time. I don't know why they aren't doing that.

DCwarrior
03-20-2016, 10:10 PM
Sumner is just awful tonight. Struggling against UW's physical defense

MUAlphaBangura
03-20-2016, 10:11 PM
Sumner is just awful tonight. Struggling against UW's physical defense

And missing free throws. Gotta keep Myles Davis in the game. God has Sumner sucked!

Mucrisco
03-20-2016, 10:31 PM
Feed the post please.

DCwarrior
03-20-2016, 10:32 PM
Man I wish Happ played for us

DCwarrior
03-20-2016, 10:39 PM
Sumner?

Mucrisco
03-20-2016, 10:41 PM
In all honesty, UW deserved this game. Both teams were in foul trouble, Wisconsin went inside and Xavier settled for jump shots.

DCwarrior
03-20-2016, 10:42 PM
Xavier deserved to lose

Nukem2
03-20-2016, 10:42 PM
In all honesty, UW deserved this game. Both teams were in foul trouble, Wisconsin went inside and Xavier settled for jump shots.
X relied on Sumner the whole game. He was awful mire than good.

MayorBeluga
03-20-2016, 10:43 PM
Wtf was X settling for jumpers when they got the lead

MU/Panther
03-20-2016, 10:44 PM
Fu....

MUAlphaBangura
03-20-2016, 10:46 PM
How many things did Xavier do wrong in the last minute, including Jaylen Reynolds guarding against an in bounds pass to midcourt.

MUFAN2003
03-20-2016, 10:46 PM
Wtf was X settling for jumpers when they got the lead

Exactly...size advantage, strength and UW in foul trouble. Unbelievable.

MU_Iceman
03-20-2016, 10:47 PM
Typical typical typical...They make the sweet 16, with that **** team?? Unbelieveable how lucky they are...I'm literally sick to my f'n stomach. Xavier played so goddamn stupid. Reynolds was dominating down low, did he even get a f'n touch the last 8 minutes??

MUFAN2003
03-20-2016, 10:47 PM
In all honesty, UW deserved this game. Both teams were in foul trouble, Wisconsin went inside and Xavier settled for jump shots.

Obvious to everyone, and I consider Mack to be a smart coach. Made no sense.

ziggysfryboy
03-20-2016, 10:48 PM
I f*cking hate the badgers.

Nukem2
03-20-2016, 10:48 PM
What was X's game plan tonight? Everything seemed out of synch from the starting lineup on. No passing. Not getting the ball inside. And, Sumner just.................

Markedman
03-20-2016, 10:49 PM
https://twitter.com/dekker/status/711744976015654913

warriorfan4life
03-20-2016, 10:49 PM
Freshman point guard played like it most of the night. When X ran good offense, they scored at will. Unfortunately, that was not very often and that is why they lost to an inferior team.

kneelb4zerg
03-20-2016, 10:50 PM
https://twitter.com/dekker/status/711744976015654913

First, what an *******.

Second, what does this game have to do with Marquette? Nothing.

MUAlphaBangura
03-20-2016, 10:50 PM
Keep this tape away from Sumner. If he watches it, he may try to take his own life at worst, and at best, he may never want to play another game.

MayorBeluga
03-20-2016, 10:53 PM
And here I was always under the impression Decker wasn't a complete ***. I'll freely admit I was wrong about that

2012Warrior
03-20-2016, 10:57 PM
And here I was always under the impression Decker wasn't a complete ***. I'll freely admit I was wrong about that

He always takes digs at MU for no reason. I don't think an MU fan would think about the Badgers the same night as a trip to the Sweet Sixteen. Don't know why he's so butt hurt about us.

kneelb4zerg
03-20-2016, 10:58 PM
He always takes digs at MU for no reason. I don't think an MU fan would think about the Badgers the same night as a trip to the Sweet Sixteen. Don't know why he's so butt hurt about us.

Seriously. They have a crazy upset win and he takes a shot at us? **** him.

warriorfan4life
03-20-2016, 11:12 PM
That said, as bad as X played relative to their potential, it took two absolute crazy shots from that jackass Koenig for Rodents to miraculously advance.

Djgoldnboy
03-20-2016, 11:17 PM
https://twitter.com/dekker/status/711744976015654913

WOW, and here I thought the MU obsession was just among the lunatics in their fan base.........one of the most exciting wins in their program and his first thought is to try and trash MU? Mind blown.

jpvegas52
03-20-2016, 11:20 PM
https://twitter.com/dekker/status/711744976015654913

I guess this means, that in spite of protestations to the contrary by Red, Butch and others, that Decker considers us a rival.

Halo
03-20-2016, 11:25 PM
WOW, and here I thought the MU obsession was just among the lunatics in their fan base.........one of the most exciting wins in their program and his first thought is to try and trash MU? Mind blown.

My thoughts also. Nuts. Great win and that is your go to Tweet by a NBA player? Is he Butch Badgers neighbor?

Mucrisco
03-20-2016, 11:31 PM
Obvious to everyone, and I consider Mack to be a smart coach. Made no sense.

Not sure you can blame Mack. He was running sets that were designed to get the ball inside. The guards wouldn't do it. Close to the end of the game, they ran a play where a guy set a cross screen for a post up, and they did not do a good job of even attempting to get it inside.

Halo
03-20-2016, 11:38 PM
To Xavier's defense, what are you going to do when a guy hits 2 3's in 12 seconds off the dribble fading away and in between a flop happens?

MU_Iceman
03-20-2016, 11:40 PM
To Xavier's defense, what are you going to do when a guy hits 2 3's in 12 seconds off the dribble fading away and in between a flop happens?

EXACTLY....they have always mastered that aspect of the game. I thought it was immediately, how the hell could the ref not see that...clearly moving.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/wisconsin-buzzer-beater-flop-sweet-16-xavier-032016

Djgoldnboy
03-20-2016, 11:48 PM
Novak telling Dekker to slow his roll.....

https://twitter.com/stevenovak16/status/711757351817183232?lang=en (https://twitter.com/stevenovak16/status/711757351817183232?lang=en)

@dekker Easy does it Sammy. Don't go all @realDonaldTrump on me. #StopTheHate

Halo
03-20-2016, 11:52 PM
Novak telling Dekker to slow his roll.....

https://twitter.com/stevenovak16/status/711757351817183232?lang=en (https://twitter.com/stevenovak16/status/711757351817183232?lang=en)

@dekker Easy does it Sammy. Don't go all @realDonaldTrump on me. #StopTheHate

Good for Steve trying to shut young Dekker down and bringing some divisive politics in it.

MUAlphaBangura
03-21-2016, 08:40 AM
Not sure you can blame Mack. He was running sets that were designed to get the ball inside. The guards wouldn't do it. Close to the end of the game, they ran a play where a guy set a cross screen for a post up, and they did not do a good job of even attempting to get it inside.

I think the thing you can blame on Mack was that he was unable to reign in his point guard from minute one until minute 40. That was one of the worst overall games I have ever seen by a high major point guard. Completely out of control, poor decision making, atrocious shot selection, and it never got better as the game went on. I actually don't blame Eades for calling the charge at the end(even though I too, believe it was a flop) as Sumner never once the whole game did anything to give himself the benefit of the doubt.

unclejohn
03-21-2016, 08:59 AM
No matter ho bad a call might be, games are rarely lost on one bad call. Watching the replay, it did look like Showalter started to fall before he was touched, but seeing it live, I thought it was a charge. I remember the crazy Kentucky fans complaining about a similar call when he clobbered them en route to the Final Four. Early in the second half, they had cut at eighteen point lead to ten and had the ball when one of their players charged into Novak. That ended their run and Marquette built its lead back up. On the Kentucky board, one guy was complaining. "How can that be a charge? The rules say you have to be playing defense. How can you be playing defense standing under the basket?" Well, the answer is pretty obvious. You can draw a charge. But since then they have added the restricted circle so that that would not be called a charge today. Of course Kentucky fans have such a ridiculous sense of entitlement that they assume rules should always be interpreted in their favor. But they are always judgement calls. Xavier had plenty of chances to win right on down to the last minute. They did not take them. Don't blame the refs.

Nukem2
03-21-2016, 08:59 AM
To Xavier's defense, what are you going to do when a guy hits 2 3's in 12 seconds off the dribble fading away and in between a flop happens?

That definitely was a flop. Showalter was falling backward as Sumner was turning.

Nukem2
03-21-2016, 10:06 AM
I think the thing you can blame on Mack was that he was unable to reign in his point guard from minute one until minute 40. That was one of the worst overall games I have ever seen by a high major point guard. Completely out of control, poor decision making, atrocious shot selection, and it never got better as the game went on. I actually don't blame Eades for calling the charge at the end(even though I too, believe it was a flop) as Sumner never once the whole game did anything to give himself the benefit of the doubt.Yep. As I posted earlier in this thread last night, what was X's game plan? Seems like Dad gave his 16 year old son the keys to the family car upon getting his driver's license. Kid goes right out speeding around and smashes the family car. That's what happened last night. Mack gave Sumner the keys to X's offense and the frosh went nutty. X's offense has been a thing of beauty this year with Sumner being a spoke in the wheel. Last night was generally a sloppy one kid effort. Mack needs to take some "blame" for that.

Mucrisco
03-21-2016, 10:41 AM
I think the thing you can blame on Mack was that he was unable to reign in his point guard from minute one until minute 40. That was one of the worst overall games I have ever seen by a high major point guard. Completely out of control, poor decision making, atrocious shot selection, and it never got better as the game went on. I actually don't blame Eades for calling the charge at the end(even though I too, believe it was a flop) as Sumner never once the whole game did anything to give himself the benefit of the doubt.

Agreed.

CaribouJim
03-21-2016, 11:40 AM
This one stung - the BE would have been 6-3 with 2 teams left...the same amount of teams as the BT with less teams starting out and the last two wins being against the BT. More than commendable.

Now 5-4 with 1 left.

MUFAN2003
03-21-2016, 03:18 PM
PAC 12 obviously had the worst showing given # of teams in, 1 of 7 moving on. Pac 12 was 2-5 in the first round while the Big East was 4-1. MU and Georgetown need to step up and be a force again. When the 10-team conference formed, the thought was that Villanova, Georgetown and MU would be the leaders of the conference year in and year out.

MUFAN2003
03-21-2016, 03:21 PM
If its any consolation for Xavier, they will be good again next year. This should be their starting lineup next season (barring any surprises):

PG-Edmond Sumner (SO)
G-Myles Davis (SR)
G-JP Macura (JR)
F-Trevon Bluiett (JR)
C-Jalen Reynolds (SR)

and Chris Mack continues to recruit well.

DCwarrior
03-21-2016, 04:29 PM
If its any consolation for Xavier, they will be good again next year. This should be their starting lineup next season (barring any surprises):

PG-Edmond Sumner (SO)
G-Myles Davis (SR)
G-JP Macura (JR)
F-Trevon Bluiett (JR)
C-Jalen Reynolds (SR)

and Chris Mack continues to recruit well.

I think the conference as a whole could be better next year. Xavier and Nova should be very good next year again and Seton Hall could be in that tier as well if Whitehead and others come back. Creighton should be improved and St. Johns will be more than competitive. Butler and Providence will be rebuilding assuming Bentil leaves. If Henry defies expectations, MU should be in the top tier...if he leaves, we'll be a middle of the pack team likely. Georgetown has talent returning but who knows what you'll get from them. DePaul will be DePaul.

Nukem2
03-21-2016, 04:36 PM
Nova will really miss Ochefu and Archie and possibly Brunson. Not sure what they have for big men other than the smallish Kennedy for next year.

MU/Panther
03-21-2016, 04:40 PM
Villanova has a nice big man coming in. Not sure where Brunson would be going.
http://articles.philly.com/2015-11-13/sports/68223694_1_five-star-recruit-jay-wright-villanova

Nukem2
03-21-2016, 04:45 PM
Villanova has a nice big man coming in. Not sure where Brunson would be going.
http://articles.philly.com/2015-11-13/sports/68223694_1_five-star-recruit-jay-wright-villanova

Thanks for the update.

warriorfan4life
03-21-2016, 05:12 PM
If its any consolation for Xavier, they will be good again next year. This should be their starting lineup next season (barring any surprises):

PG-Edmond Sumner (SO)
G-Myles Davis (SR)
G-JP Macura (JR)
F-Trevon Bluiett (JR)
C-Jalen Reynolds (SR)

and Chris Mack continues to recruit well.

Reynolds seems to really enjoy it as Xavier, but he should be graduating this spring and is already like 23 years old. Despite a so-so season relative to expectations, I can see him sticking in the NBA as an energy big off the bench and do not see an additional year really aiding his development.

Even if Reynolds also leaves, they should be pretty good next year. I really like Sean O'Mara (at least compared what most likely think of him), they have a good big sitting out in RaShid Gaston, stretch four-man Kaiser Gates, former top 100 player Makinde London (caught in a numbers game so far), plus a very good group of guards and wings with Sumner, Davis, Macura, Blueitt, and incoming top 100 guard Quentin Goodin.

MUwarrior1090
03-21-2016, 05:34 PM
Reynolds seems to really enjoy it as Xavier, but he should be graduating this spring and is already like 23 years old. Despite a so-so season relative to expectations, I can see him sticking in the NBA as an energy big off the bench and do not see an additional year really aiding his development.

Even if Reynolds also leaves, they should be pretty good next year. I really like Sean O'Mara (at least compared what most likely think of him), they have a good big sitting out in RaShid Gaston, stretch four-man Kaiser Gates, former top 100 player Makinde London (caught in a numbers game so far), plus a very good group of guards and wings with Sumner, Davis, Macura, Blueitt, and incoming top 100 guard Quentin Goodin.

Regarding Reynolds, he said in his post game interview "We'll be back even better next year". I know to take what these kids say after games with a grain of salt but he certainly sounded like someone who was coming back.

MUFAN2003
03-21-2016, 09:55 PM
Reynolds seems to really enjoy it as Xavier, but he should be graduating this spring and is already like 23 years old. Despite a so-so season relative to expectations, I can see him sticking in the NBA as an energy big off the bench and do not see an additional year really aiding his development.

Even if Reynolds also leaves, they should be pretty good next year. I really like Sean O'Mara (at least compared what most likely think of him), they have a good big sitting out in RaShid Gaston, stretch four-man Kaiser Gates, former top 100 player Makinde London (caught in a numbers game so far), plus a very good group of guards and wings with Sumner, Davis, Macura, Blueitt, and incoming top 100 guard Quentin Goodin.

PG Quentin Goodin and PF Tyrique Jones are both 4-star Top 100 players by ESPN. Eddie Ekiyor enrolled at the semester, redshirted, and has 4 years of eligibility starting next year. Here is a good summary with video of their 2016 class.

http://www.bannersontheparkway.com/xavier-mens-basketball-recruiting-news-offer-commit-verbal-visit

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2015/06/16/norfolk-state-transfer-rashid-gaston-picks-xavier/28804115/

Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
03-23-2016, 04:19 PM
Looking around the league...
.
Villanova should be okay. Archie and Ochefu are big losses, but Brunson should be ready to take over the point after a successful sixth man campaign and Darryl Reynolds and Omari Spellman give them good enough play up front to still contend. They could take a step back, but it won't be a big step.
Xavier will be even better. They lose Farr, but as long as the rest come back, they'll be a top-10 team all season long and legitimate national title contender.
Seton Hall will depend largely on Whitehead. If he's back, they'll be even better, and could make the jump from fringe top-25 team to legit top-10 team that Xavier made this year. If he leaves, they'll still be okay, but probably middle-of-the-pack.
Providence will drop off almost regardless. I really think both Dunn and Bentil will leave. I'm more bullish on Bentil than others, but I think he will be drafted pretty early. Just speaking personally, I think he's the best pro prospect in the Big East. But even losing those two, someone on Cooley's team will be a statistical beast. From Marshon Brooks to Vincent Council to Bryce Cotton to Kris Dunn, Cooley has always had great guard play. They won't be as good, but they'll still be competitive.
Butler loses Jones and Dunham, but I think they'll be as good or better. Kelan Martin is a star in the making, and Chrabascz, Wideman, and Lewis are enough supporting cast for them to compete.
Creighton is going to be sneaky good. People will overlook the NIT team, but they have a ton of experience, shooters, length, and talent. They'll be much improved next year.
Georgetown is a team I have no idea about. They lose DSR and Hayes, but on paper, Campbell, Peak, Derrickson, Copeland, and Govan looks like a really talented starting five. Of course, on paper, Georgetown was the second best team in the league this year. Once games started, not so much, so why would they really be any better?
DePaul will probably be the same. Sure, Garrett and Hamilton are seniors, but they lose Henry and haven't been able to piece anything together with this core before. I like Eli Cain, but Leitao needs to turn the roster over before they'll really improve much.
St. John's has to improve on 1-17, right? They do lose 3 seniors (Mvouika, Johnson, Balamou) but with young talents like Yakwe, Sima, Ellison, and Mussini, they'll improve. I think they move ahead of DePaul next year, but can't see them climbing too high, not because the talent isn't there, but because the rest of the league will be good.
.
Man, on paper, it looks like the entire league should be better next year with the exceptions of Providence and DePaul. It seems like a statistical impossibility, but I could see us eventually getting 7-8 teams in the tournament. This league is so good top to bottom. Okay, top to just above DePaul. It will be very tough to consistently be at the top, just because so many teams look so good going forward, and most of the coaches are fairly young and should be here for awhile.

MU_Iceman
03-23-2016, 05:13 PM
Looking around the league...
.
Villanova should be okay. Archie and Ochefu are big losses, but Brunson should be ready to take over the point after a successful sixth man campaign and Darryl Reynolds and Omari Spellman give them good enough play up front to still contend. They could take a step back, but it won't be a big step.
Xavier will be even better. They lose Farr, but as long as the rest come back, they'll be a top-10 team all season long and legitimate national title contender.
Seton Hall will depend largely on Whitehead. If he's back, they'll be even better, and could make the jump from fringe top-25 team to legit top-10 team that Xavier made this year. If he leaves, they'll still be okay, but probably middle-of-the-pack.
Providence will drop off almost regardless. I really think both Dunn and Bentil will leave. I'm more bullish on Bentil than others, but I think he will be drafted pretty early. Just speaking personally, I think he's the best pro prospect in the Big East. But even losing those two, someone on Cooley's team will be a statistical beast. From Marshon Brooks to Vincent Council to Bryce Cotton to Kris Dunn, Cooley has always had great guard play. They won't be as good, but they'll still be competitive.
Butler loses Jones and Dunham, but I think they'll be as good or better. Kelan Martin is a star in the making, and Chrabascz, Wideman, and Lewis are enough supporting cast for them to compete.
Creighton is going to be sneaky good. People will overlook the NIT team, but they have a ton of experience, shooters, length, and talent. They'll be much improved next year.
Georgetown is a team I have no idea about. They lose DSR and Hayes, but on paper, Campbell, Peak, Derrickson, Copeland, and Govan looks like a really talented starting five. Of course, on paper, Georgetown was the second best team in the league this year. Once games started, not so much, so why would they really be any better?
DePaul will probably be the same. Sure, Garrett and Hamilton are seniors, but they lose Henry and haven't been able to piece anything together with this core before. I like Eli Cain, but Leitao needs to turn the roster over before they'll really improve much.
St. John's has to improve on 1-17, right? They do lose 3 seniors (Mvouika, Johnson, Balamou) but with young talents like Yakwe, Sima, Ellison, and Mussini, they'll improve. I think they move ahead of DePaul next year, but can't see them climbing too high, not because the talent isn't there, but because the rest of the league will be good.
.
Man, on paper, it looks like the entire league should be better next year with the exceptions of Providence and DePaul. It seems like a statistical impossibility, but I could see us eventually getting 7-8 teams in the tournament. This league is so good top to bottom. Okay, top to just above DePaul. It will be very tough to consistently be at the top, just because so many teams look so good going forward, and most of the coaches are fairly young and should be here for awhile.


It shouldn't be that tough...MU did it in a much stronger old Big East...just sayin'

Cooby Snacks
03-23-2016, 05:39 PM
It shouldn't be that tough...MU did it in a much stronger old Big East...just sayin'

MU finished 4th or higher 3 out of 8 seasons before the conference split.

Markedman
03-23-2016, 06:35 PM
Brooks never played for Cooley.....good write up.....thanks


Looking around the league...
.
Villanova should be okay. Archie and Ochefu are big losses, but Brunson should be ready to take over the point after a successful sixth man campaign and Darryl Reynolds and Omari Spellman give them good enough play up front to still contend. They could take a step back, but it won't be a big step.
Xavier will be even better. They lose Farr, but as long as the rest come back, they'll be a top-10 team all season long and legitimate national title contender.
Seton Hall will depend largely on Whitehead. If he's back, they'll be even better, and could make the jump from fringe top-25 team to legit top-10 team that Xavier made this year. If he leaves, they'll still be okay, but probably middle-of-the-pack.
Providence will drop off almost regardless. I really think both Dunn and Bentil will leave. I'm more bullish on Bentil than others, but I think he will be drafted pretty early. Just speaking personally, I think he's the best pro prospect in the Big East. But even losing those two, someone on Cooley's team will be a statistical beast. From Marshon Brooks to Vincent Council to Bryce Cotton to Kris Dunn, Cooley has always had great guard play. They won't be as good, but they'll still be competitive.
Butler loses Jones and Dunham, but I think they'll be as good or better. Kelan Martin is a star in the making, and Chrabascz, Wideman, and Lewis are enough supporting cast for them to compete.
Creighton is going to be sneaky good. People will overlook the NIT team, but they have a ton of experience, shooters, length, and talent. They'll be much improved next year.
Georgetown is a team I have no idea about. They lose DSR and Hayes, but on paper, Campbell, Peak, Derrickson, Copeland, and Govan looks like a really talented starting five. Of course, on paper, Georgetown was the second best team in the league this year. Once games started, not so much, so why would they really be any better?
DePaul will probably be the same. Sure, Garrett and Hamilton are seniors, but they lose Henry and haven't been able to piece anything together with this core before. I like Eli Cain, but Leitao needs to turn the roster over before they'll really improve much.
St. John's has to improve on 1-17, right? They do lose 3 seniors (Mvouika, Johnson, Balamou) but with young talents like Yakwe, Sima, Ellison, and Mussini, they'll improve. I think they move ahead of DePaul next year, but can't see them climbing too high, not because the talent isn't there, but because the rest of the league will be good.
.
Man, on paper, it looks like the entire league should be better next year with the exceptions of Providence and DePaul. It seems like a statistical impossibility, but I could see us eventually getting 7-8 teams in the tournament. This league is so good top to bottom. Okay, top to just above DePaul. It will be very tough to consistently be at the top, just because so many teams look so good going forward, and most of the coaches are fairly young and should be here for awhile.

MUFAN2003
03-23-2016, 09:20 PM
Schools like Xavier, Butler and Creighton always were successful due to their culture, fan support and commitment to basketball. I keep reading how their affiliation now with the Big East is allowing them to get players they could not get before. For example, Butler getting 2016 4-star C Joey Brunk. I believe he is a Top 60 player. He wanted to play close to home. Before joining the Big East, that would have probably meant Purdue, Indiana or Notre Dame. Also a credit to how good Brad Stevens was as a coach to reach consecutive NCAA championship games.

unclejohn
03-23-2016, 09:58 PM
Schools like Xavier, Butler and Creighton always were successful due to their culture, fan support and commitment to basketball. I keep reading how their affiliation now with the Big East is allowing them to get players they could not get before. For example, Butler getting 2016 4-star C Joey Brunk. I believe he is a Top 60 player. He wanted to play close to home. Before joining the Big East, that would have probably meant Purdue, Indiana or Notre Dame. Also a credit to how good Brad Stevens was as a coach to reach consecutive NCAA championship games.

True. All of them have been consistently pretty good for years under different coaches. Creighton had the same coach for a long time, but since he left, they have held together just fine. Butler and Xavier have both gone through a string of coaches, with Xavier stealing Thad Matta from Butler before Ohio State stole him from them. You have to be impressed with how far Butler came in a short time, going from the strongest team in the Horizon League to the Big East in a few years. Those Final Four appearances were a tribute to good coaching. They were also a tribute to good luck. In neither year were they seeded high enough to be one of the favorites coming in, and things broke their way. But it is hard to argue with two championship appearances in a row.

I do think that being in the Big East has to help recruiting for all these teams. They are going to play better teams before more people and be on TV more often. A few years ago, the Horizon League was celebrating the fact that its games were available online, and that they had a weekly (Friday Night? game on ESPN. Now most of their games are going to be televised.) The thing to keep in mind about a conference like this is that someone has to be on the bottom every year. Typically, teams are going to cycle through, although DePaul seems parked there right now. But as a result, our fans are freaking out this year. Last year, Butler and Creighton's fans were not happy. Georgetown is down this year. But somebody has to be. That is why I try to avoid panic.

IrwinFletcher
03-26-2016, 10:07 AM
Looking around the league...
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Villanova should be okay. Archie and Ochefu are big losses, but Brunson should be ready to take over the point after a successful sixth man campaign and Darryl Reynolds and Omari Spellman give them good enough play up front to still contend. They could take a step back, but it won't be a big step.
Xavier will be even better. They lose Farr, but as long as the rest come back, they'll be a top-10 team all season long and legitimate national title contender.
Seton Hall will depend largely on Whitehead. If he's back, they'll be even better, and could make the jump from fringe top-25 team to legit top-10 team that Xavier made this year. If he leaves, they'll still be okay, but probably middle-of-the-pack.
Providence will drop off almost regardless. I really think both Dunn and Bentil will leave. I'm more bullish on Bentil than others, but I think he will be drafted pretty early. Just speaking personally, I think he's the best pro prospect in the Big East. But even losing those two, someone on Cooley's team will be a statistical beast. From Marshon Brooks to Vincent Council to Bryce Cotton to Kris Dunn, Cooley has always had great guard play. They won't be as good, but they'll still be competitive.
Butler loses Jones and Dunham, but I think they'll be as good or better. Kelan Martin is a star in the making, and Chrabascz, Wideman, and Lewis are enough supporting cast for them to compete.
Creighton is going to be sneaky good. People will overlook the NIT team, but they have a ton of experience, shooters, length, and talent. They'll be much improved next year.
Georgetown is a team I have no idea about. They lose DSR and Hayes, but on paper, Campbell, Peak, Derrickson, Copeland, and Govan looks like a really talented starting five. Of course, on paper, Georgetown was the second best team in the league this year. Once games started, not so much, so why would they really be any better?
DePaul will probably be the same. Sure, Garrett and Hamilton are seniors, but they lose Henry and haven't been able to piece anything together with this core before. I like Eli Cain, but Leitao needs to turn the roster over before they'll really improve much.
St. John's has to improve on 1-17, right? They do lose 3 seniors (Mvouika, Johnson, Balamou) but with young talents like Yakwe, Sima, Ellison, and Mussini, they'll improve. I think they move ahead of DePaul next year, but can't see them climbing too high, not because the talent isn't there, but because the rest of the league will be good.
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Man, on paper, it looks like the entire league should be better next year with the exceptions of Providence and DePaul. It seems like a statistical impossibility, but I could see us eventually getting 7-8 teams in the tournament. This league is so good top to bottom. Okay, top to just above DePaul. It will be very tough to consistently be at the top, just because so many teams look so good going forward, and most of the coaches are fairly young and should be here for awhile.


Villanova will take a step back, but when you take a step back from a 16-2 conference record, you are still in good shape.

I also think that Butler will take a step back. I think Jones and Dunham were the heart and soul of that team and that will be tough to replace.

Say what you will about DePaul, but Leitao is a competent coach and they do have a couple of kids coming in that will help. Could get to 7-8 wins next year.

Watson for Creighton, is he back next year? Can't remember if he was a grad transfer or not.

Nukem2
03-26-2016, 10:10 AM
Villanova will take a step back, but when you take a step back from a 16-2 conference record, you are still in good shape.

I also think that Butler will take a step back. I think Jones and Dunham were the heart and soul of that team and that will be tough to replace.

Say what you will about DePaul, but Leitao is a competent coach and they do have a couple of kids coming in that will help. Could get to 7-8 wins next year.

Watson for Creighton, is he back next year? Can't remember if he was a grad transfer or not.Yep, Butler is going to miss those two. The last guys who played for Brad Stevens.

PS, Watson has 1 more year. He was a "regular" transfer from Boston U.

Phantom Warrior
03-26-2016, 11:02 AM
brewcity77,

Good overview, except that it does not include players who sat out this year after transferring last year. Creighton, for example, adds Marcus Foster, who averaged over 15 ppg as a freshman at Kansas State before being dismissed from the team as a sophomore.

There are other transfers as well. Someone posted a list of those that will be eligible next season, but I can't find it now.

There are also a few guys who red-shirted this year. In fact, Creighton has Justin Patton, who was a Top 100 recruit. I think Xavier also had a kid sit out this season as well.

IrwinFletcher
03-26-2016, 11:29 AM
I see it at Villanova and X fighting it out again at the top. If Whitehead comes back for SHU, it is a 3 team race.

Creighton can be in the next tier along with SHU if Whitehead is gone, but I can also see SHU imploding again.

Butler, MU and Georgetown battling it out for 5th place, though if Henry comes back, we jump into the group with Creighton and SHU.

DePaul, SJU (lots of talent but young and an inexperienced coach) and Providence (assuming Bentil is gone) as the bottom 3.

Obviously a lot of questions to be answered for this league in the next month so things are likely to change dramatically.