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View Full Version : This Loss Is On WOJO!!!!!



Phantom Warrior
02-06-2016, 02:07 PM
Takes Traci out with 8 minutes left, and doesn't put him back in until there are 20 seconds left!

Unbelievable!!!!

I am beginning to have my doubts about Wojo.

kneelb4zerg
02-06-2016, 02:09 PM
Takes Traci out with 8 minutes left, and doesn't put him back in until there are 20 seconds left!

Unbelievable!!!!

I am beginning to have my doubts about Wojo.

Yeah. That's why they lost. Come on.

At least it's a moral victory, amirite?

Warriors69
02-06-2016, 02:10 PM
Blame the refs!

MKE_GoldenEagleFan
02-06-2016, 02:10 PM
Get a grip man, Traci has historically struggled in late game situations. The story again was turnovers.

Nukem2
02-06-2016, 02:12 PM
Though, Wojo should have called a timeout during the 8 point run from 63-57 to 63-65 with Henry on the bench. That was just a horrible turnaround.

kneelb4zerg
02-06-2016, 02:13 PM
Though, Wojo should have called a timeout during the 8 point run from 63-57 to 63-65 with Henry on the bench. That was just a horrible turnaround.

The should have called a timeout refrain is so weak. You don't know if it would have made a difference.

IrwinFletcher
02-06-2016, 02:15 PM
Takes Traci out with 8 minutes left, and doesn't put him back in until there are 20 seconds left!

Unbelievable!!!!

I am beginning to have my doubts about Wojo.

He took out Traci the last 4 minutes against Butler and they still won. This isn't the first time he has done it.

MUwarrior1090
02-06-2016, 02:17 PM
Takes Traci out with 8 minutes left, and doesn't put him back in until there are 20 seconds left!

Unbelievable!!!!

I am beginning to have my doubts about Wojo.

He took him out with about 6 minutes left. And Cheatham kept us in the game.

I wanted TC in the game too but in no way did that cost us the game. Come on. X shot 13-20 from deep. THAT cost us the game. And turnovers. Not Traci being on the bench.

Markedman
02-06-2016, 02:17 PM
I'm fine with the decisions Wojo made in the game. We played a hell of a game. Xavier just played a little better.

MU/Panther
02-06-2016, 02:17 PM
20 turnovers! Duane with 7.

Nukem2
02-06-2016, 02:17 PM
The should have called a timeout refrain is so weak. You don't know if it would have made a difference.

Umm, a timeout was very warranted and it definitely made a difference, especially on the road playing a Top 5 team. Xavier was playing poorly before that. Gave them life and aroused the home crowd. I'm sure Wojo has some second thoughts about that.

Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
02-06-2016, 02:21 PM
Anyone complaining about this performance today is out of their damn mind. This loss isn't on Wojo, it's on Xavier shooting insanely lights out from three. We played great, we neutralized Farr, that was one of the most complete games we've played all season. We got beat by the #6 team in the country in their gym. Don't be inane.

Nukem2
02-06-2016, 02:23 PM
Anyone complaining about this performance today is out of their damn mind. This loss isn't on Wojo, it's on Xavier shooting insanely lights out from three. We played great, we neutralized Farr, that was one of the most complete games we've played all season. We got beat by the #6 team in the country in their gym. Don't be inane.
Unfortunately, most of those 3s were wide open after collapsing on the ball. Huge problem all season along with those TOs.

Markedman
02-06-2016, 02:23 PM
Media time out was coming. Coaches have difficult decisions to make in that situation......most coaches would have done the same thing Wojo did there IMO.

He tried to steal a few minutes of rest for Henry around the timeout and Xavier went on a run. It happens.

MU/Panther
02-06-2016, 02:24 PM
Worst case the timeout is a must when it was tied. Was waiting for the official timeout, without burning the team timeout was a tough blow. I don't blame him, i would've waited untill the under 8 timeout.

Nukem2
02-06-2016, 02:26 PM
Media time out was coming. Coaches have difficult decisions to make in that situation......most coaches would have done the same thing Wojo did there IMO.

He tried to steal a few minutes of rest for Henry around the timeout and Xavier went on a run. It happens.

Disagree. You could just feel what was happening. This young team needed some guidance there and it still would have given Henry some rest. Good question for Wojo on the next radio show with Homer. Lost opportunity in any event.

kneelb4zerg
02-06-2016, 02:27 PM
List of concerns about Wojo-
1. Can he recruit
2. Do his players improve year over year
3. X's and 0's.

...

50. Is he nice to his dog

...

99. Substitution pattern
100. Strategic use of timeouts

Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
02-06-2016, 02:27 PM
News flash...we aren't going 40-0 this year. We also almost certainly aren't going to the NCAAs and likely will have to go the CBI route if we want postseason play. That's not being negative, that's reality.

For anyone who hasn't come to grips with this yet, maybe look at the positives. Today was full of positives. Xavier is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really damn good.

We didn't lose this game. They beat us. There's a difference.

MU/Panther
02-06-2016, 02:28 PM
Disagree. You could just feel what was happening. This young team needed some guidance there and it still would have given Henry some rest. Good question for Wojo on the next radio show with Homer. Lost opportunity in any event. Was waiting for the official timeout. It happens. Finally called it only down 2.

MUFAN2003
02-06-2016, 02:29 PM
Too many turnovers, turnovers at crucial moments and great shooting by Xavier cost MU the game. Proud of the way MU played. Did not disappear in the 2nd half like they did at Villanova.

IrwinFletcher
02-06-2016, 02:34 PM
Last month, X pounded MU and during this stretch, people are wondering if this team is getting better.

We go to their gym, against the #6 team in the country, and they put up a big run to go up 19-12. Not only does MU not fold it up, the respond with a 17-1 run. They hold that lead until the last 8 minutes, but do they fold again? Nope. the keep battling and even pull back into a tie.

With two minutes left we are trailing by 1 and we aren't able to come back.

This team certainly made a lot of mistakes but they also played extremely well against the #6 team in the country at their place. Give me this effort for the rest of the season and we can win 20 games.

Nukem2
02-06-2016, 02:37 PM
News flash...we aren't going 40-0 this year. We also almost certainly aren't going to the NCAAs and likely will have to go the CBI route if we want postseason play. That's not being negative, that's reality.

For anyone who hasn't come to grips with this yet, maybe look at the positives. Today was full of positives. Xavier is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really damn good.

We didn't lose this game. They beat us. There's a difference.
No one disputes that. Just talking about a turning point in the game. MU essentially played behind the rest of the way. That's tough for this young squad. Wojo REALLY needed to help out with a needed timeout especially with Henry on the bench. Is that hard to grasp? In any event, a good effort by our guys on the road. Another learning experience. Next game.

pbiflyer
02-06-2016, 02:38 PM
Anyone complaining about this performance today is out of their damn mind. This loss isn't on Wojo, it's on Xavier shooting insanely lights out from three. We played great, we neutralized Farr, that was one of the most complete games we've played all season. We got beat by the #6 team in the country in their gym. Don't be inane.

Hopefully, the team doesn't feel this way. Hopefully, they are pissed.
I remember when the midgets played in the tourny down in Orlando over Thanksgiving. Played amazing, just ran out of gas. You could see it, they gave it their all, but just had nothing left at the end of the third game in 4 days, while only playing 7 guys. After the game, Lazar just destroyed a chair. He was pissed that they lost. Never mind they were underdogs in the first two games. Never mind that they lost to a bigger, stronger team. He was furious.
Hopefully, our team is too.

I agree that we have no right to complain, our team performed admirably. But I hope they are not at all happy about this.

MU/Panther
02-06-2016, 02:40 PM
But, he did when only down two while waiting for the under eight.

IrwinFletcher
02-06-2016, 02:43 PM
No one disputes that. Just talking about a turning point in the game. MU essentially played behind the rest of the way. That's tough for this young squad. Wojo REALLY needed to help out with a needed timeout especially with Henry on the bench. Is that hard to grasp? In any event, a good effort by our guys on the road. Another learning experience. Next game.

Not quite.

they did come back and tie it at 72 and at 75.

So in spite of this terrible decisions by Wojo, the team overcame this horrific set back to tie the game. How did Wojo blow after this?

Halo
02-06-2016, 02:49 PM
13-20 from 3. Ball game. What are you going to do when a team shoots like that? Have to win out now. :cool:

ValiantSailor
02-06-2016, 02:53 PM
Other than the final score, I thought this was a damn good game...the reason why I live for college hoops.

IIRC the OP of this thread predicted that MU would lose by 15. One would think he'd be pleased with the team's and the coaches' efforts!

VS

TedBaxter
02-06-2016, 02:55 PM
I'm fine with the decisions Wojo made in the game. We played a hell of a game. Xavier just played a little better.

Thank you. The only thing I'm complaining about is the shot lock violation on Luke.

Markedman
02-06-2016, 02:58 PM
Cheatham had 21 points in 21 minutes.......when he is good he is very good. Foul trouble was the only thing that stopped him today.

pbiflyer
02-06-2016, 03:05 PM
Cheatham had 21 points in 21 minutes.......when he is good he is very good. Foul trouble was the only thing that stopped him today.

And 4 turnovers. I can't wait to see him when the game slows down a bit more for him. It is going to be fun watching him for the next few years.

MU/Panther
02-06-2016, 03:10 PM
Thank you. The only thing I'm complaining about is the shot lock violation on Luke.Why is that, video clearly showed the ball was in his hand. If the clock was 0.6, we need shot clocks that say that, like in the NBA.

Nukem2
02-06-2016, 03:15 PM
Not quite.

they did come back and tie it at 72 and at 75.

So in spite of this terrible decisions by Wojo, the team overcame this horrific set back to tie the game. How did Wojo blow after this?

That's why I said "essentially" as "Xavier" still had the ball playing at home. I was going to say that, but decided to keep the post shorter. It was an uphill battle after 65-63. I said game over at that point and, well, it was. Momentum was lost.

Keeping the lead in this game was important. X was not going to lose once it had the upper hand and it certainly played out that way.

Gato78
02-06-2016, 03:37 PM
Phantom: R-E-L-A-X. Carter was pulled because he air balled a three when he had Luke in good post position right in front of him at the same time. Also needed length for defense. I have no problem whatsoever with Wojo's coaching today. Big picture this and ask yourself if you would be happy going in with a chance to win at the 2:00 minute mark.

IrwinFletcher
02-06-2016, 03:44 PM
That's why I said "essentially" as "Xavier" still had the ball playing at home. I was going to say that, but decided to keep the post shorter. It was an uphill battle after 65-63. I said game over at that point and, well, it was. Momentum was lost.

Keeping the lead in this game was important. X was not going to lose once it had the upper hand and it certainly played out that way.

"Technically" they did lose the lead. The had a lead and then it was tied, twice. But I get your point.

My point is that a really young team did come back on the road to the #6 team in the country and tie it twice under 5 minutes left. One TimeOut not called with 8 minutes to go didn't decide the game.

79warrior
02-06-2016, 03:47 PM
Takes Traci out with 8 minutes left, and doesn't put him back in until there are 20 seconds left!

Unbelievable!!!!

I am beginning to have my doubts about Wojo.

This loss was on 20 turnovers. Period.

Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
02-06-2016, 03:52 PM
No one disputes that. Just talking about a turning point in the game. MU essentially played behind the rest of the way. That's tough for this young squad. Wojo REALLY needed to help out with a needed timeout especially with Henry on the bench. Is that hard to grasp? In any event, a good effort by our guys on the road. Another learning experience. Next game.

We were down 2 and came back to tie the game. Waiting to call a timeout didn't remotely decide the game. Not getting stops in the last 3:30 was far more detrimental to the outcome. You're putting way too much importance on one relatively inconsequential detail.

Gato78
02-06-2016, 03:54 PM
I just watched Wojo's post game press conference. It is clear that he was concerned about Haanif and Traci's matchup with Sumner. He talked about how difficult it is dealing with Sumner's length. When you compare Traci's PT at the end with Wojo's remarks, it makes a lot of sense why he had Haanif and Swaggy in over that stretch.

Djgoldnboy
02-06-2016, 03:56 PM
Why is that, video clearly showed the ball was in his hand. If the clock was 0.6, we need shot clocks that say that, like in the NBA.

That was the quickest 1 second count I've seen.

Nukem2
02-06-2016, 03:57 PM
We were down 2 and came back to tie the game. Waiting to call a timeout didn't remotely decide the game. Not getting stops in the last 3:30 was far more detrimental to the outcome. You're putting way too much importance on one relatively inconsequential detail.

My original point also was that Henry was out all this time. That is the other half of the equation. Momentum was lost and Xavier had the lead or the ball thereafter. MU was playing uphill on the road against #6 in the country. One just knew the outcome at that point.

I was screaming for a timeout at 63-61 and would have put Henry back as the team looked ragged. Again, on the road.

Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
02-06-2016, 04:03 PM
Henry is human. Wojo tried to get him a rest. He wanted him in good shape down the stretch. Maybe you "felt" you knew the outcome, but you would be lying both to yourself and to us. The game was tied twice after that. One stop and one make and we would have had the lead. The outcome was not known. You're just trying to justify your take.

It was one decision in a 40 minute game. Turnovers were a bigger issue. Not getting stops in the last 3:30 were a bigger issue. Xavier shooting 65% beyond the arc was a bigger issue. And yet you are trying to say it was all because he waited one possession too long to call a timeout? That's just silly talk, especially in a game with 8 minutes left that was subsequently tied twice.

Markedman
02-06-2016, 04:04 PM
That was the quickest 1 second count I've seen.

But it might not have been 1 second. The clock would show 1 second even if there was only 1/10 of a second left.

CaribouJim
02-06-2016, 04:14 PM
But it might not have been 1 second. The clock would show 1 second even if there was only 1/10 of a second left.

I thought the jump ball whistle was slow.

As far as the clock, I too thought it was quick. I'm drawing a complete and total blank on the shot and game clock in college - the NBA goes to tenths of a second for both game and shot clock, but not for college?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Tucker_Rule

bleedbluegold03
02-06-2016, 04:34 PM
Have posted this in the past, but we lost because we took 8 less shots. Turnovers killed us again

Duane had 7 turnovers. He needs to be better.

A couple weeks ago this could've been a romp, this team is (finally) getting better. Now it needs to figure out consistency

pbiflyer
02-06-2016, 04:45 PM
This loss was on 20 turnovers. Period.

Yeah, we out rebounded them, we shot a good percentage from three. Had more free throws until the end, more steals, more blocks.
Our assist ratio could have been better.
But it was the turnovers that killed us. Value every possession.

kneelb4zerg
02-06-2016, 04:47 PM
Turnovers is the Achilles heal which isn't surprising because both our pgs are freshmen.

Markedman
02-06-2016, 04:55 PM
Turnovers is the Achilles heal which isn't surprising because both our pgs are freshmen.

And 1 of our point guards is really a 2 guard learning to play the point.

Also our bigs have turned it over a lot this year as well. Today Duane was the major culprit.

Markedman
02-06-2016, 04:57 PM
I thought the jump ball whistle was slow.

As far as the clock, I too thought it was quick. I'm drawing a complete and total blank on the shot and game clock in college - the NBA goes to tenths of a second for both game and shot clock, but not for college?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Tucker_Rule

Yep no tenths just seconds on the shot clocks in college. I assume that is also the case with the game clock but not sure.

21rooster
02-06-2016, 05:15 PM
I tend to agree that taking Henry out at that point was a big mistake. For consecutive games, Wojo has killed rallies by changing personnel when things were clicking. Against Seton Hall, he took out an effective Luke when they got the lead down to 3, and Sandy comes in to turn the ball over on a charge. Today, MU had momentum and Had an effective offense going. Wojo pulls Henry, and momentum disappears. MU lost because X is great and MU turns the ball over way too much, but I also think that momentum is huge in basketball, and the substitutions killed that momentum.

Markedman
02-06-2016, 05:37 PM
I tend to agree that taking Henry out at that point was a big mistake. For consecutive games, Wojo has killed rallies by changing personnel when things were clicking. Against Seton Hall, he took out an effective Luke when they got the lead down to 3, and Sandy comes in to turn the ball over on a charge. Today, MU had momentum and Had an effective offense going. Wojo pulls Henry, and momentum disappears. MU lost because X is great and MU turns the ball over way too much, but I also think that momentum is huge in basketball, and the substitutions killed that momentum.

He isn't going to play the whole game. Guys get tired.....they need a blow.....come on.

TedBaxter
02-06-2016, 06:28 PM
I thought MU played a helluva game. Not a perfect game, but well enough to beat a top 10 team. Xavier did what they had to do to win.

CaribouJim
02-06-2016, 08:41 PM
Get a grip man, Traci has historically struggled in late game situations. The story again was turnovers.

...and Traci had only two and the two guys that were playing point in his absence had 11 between them. Traci also lead the team in assists with 7.

I too was wondering where Traci was. I just would have preferred Traci dishing to Duane and HC rather than those two sometimes forcing the issue.

Yes, Traci put up a couple ill-advised 3's and missed a layup after making a nice move, but to summarily dismiss and jump on PW's disappointment in not seeing Traci in there towards the tail end of the game went just as overboard as maybe PW's tone (but not substance IMO).

IrwinFletcher
02-06-2016, 10:18 PM
...and Traci had only two and the two guys that were playing point in his absence had 11 between them. Traci also lead the team in assists with 7.

I too was wondering where Traci was. I just would have preferred Traci dishing to Duane and HC rather than those two sometimes forcing the issue.

Yes, Traci put up a couple ill-advised 3's and missed a layup after making a nice move, but to summarily dismiss and jump on PW's disappointment in not seeing Traci in there towards the tail end of the game went just as overboard as maybe PW's tone (but not substance IMO).

So in this scenario, JJ would be on the bench, and he was really good the last 4 minutes or so. We certainly aren't going to bench Luke or Henry, and ditto to Duane. So the last two spots are TC, Haaney or JJ.

CaribouJim
02-06-2016, 11:26 PM
So in this scenario, JJ would be on the bench, and he was really good the last 4 minutes or so. We certainly aren't going to bench Luke or Henry, and ditto to Duane. So the last two spots are TC, Haaney or JJ.

Why "ditto to Duane"? Wasn't the consensus that T/O's was MU's undoing today? Would it have hurt to sit him for 2-3 minutes? Just my opinion - you have yours.

21rooster
02-07-2016, 12:15 AM
He isn't going to play the whole game. Guys get tired.....they need a blow.....come on.

After seeing this, I checked Henry's minutes. At 36 minutes,I think I have to concede. Wojo had to give Henry a break at some point. Timing didn't seem ideal, but then again, what would be ideal?

pbiflyer
02-07-2016, 12:38 AM
After seeing this, I checked Henry's minutes. At 36 minutes,I think I have to concede. Wojo had to give Henry a break at some point. Timing didn't seem ideal, but then again, what would be ideal?

Ideally? Clock at triple 0 and Marquette ahead on the scoreboard.:p

Funny, the loss was Wojo's fault, but going toe to toe with the number 6 team on their home court? Magically happened.

BLT
02-07-2016, 11:26 AM
Traci was in at the end of the 1st half and MU had four empty, rushed possessions with a Haanif in foul trouble. Wojo clearly prefers Cheatam in those situations, for better or worse. Both have a lot of potential, but both turn the ball over a lot. PG experience cures a lot of coaching ills.

CaribouJim
02-07-2016, 12:32 PM
If my math is correct, in Big East play, Traci has 42 assists and 25 TO's including 14 assists and 4 TO's in two games against X.

Nukem2
02-07-2016, 12:53 PM
If my math is correct, in Big East play, Traci has 42 assists and 25 TO's including 14 assists and 4 TO's in two games against X.
Per conference stats at gomarquette.com, Traci has 48 assists and 27 TO's in 21.5 mpg.

CaribouJim
02-07-2016, 01:18 PM
Per conference stats at gomarquette.com, Traci has 48 assists and 27 TO's in 21.5 mpg.

Whoops - did it manually in my head game by game - must have missed a game. Didnt know that resource existed - thanks Nukem2!

MKE_GoldenEagleFan
02-07-2016, 01:39 PM
Nobody is saying Traci sucks, but he makes freshman mistakes when things get rushed, like during end of game situations. Duane had a lot of turnovers but is normally much more solid in late game situations. I have no issue with that decision, even at the very worst it's a toss up call.